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INNILS OF CONGRESS.

THE

DEBATES AND PROCEEDINGS

IN THE

CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES;

WITH

AN APPENDIX,

CONTAINING

IMPORXANT STATE PAPERS AND PUBMC DOCUMENTS,

▲VD AU.

THE LAWS OF A PUBLIC NATURE;

WITH A COPIOUS INDEX.

VOLUME I,

COMPRISING (WITH VOLUME U) THE PERIOD FROM MARCH 3, 1789,

TO MARCH 3, 1791, INCLUSIVE.

COMPILED FROM AUTHENTIC MATERIALS,
BY JOSEPH GALES, Senior.

WASHINGTON:

PRINTED AND FUBLISHED BY GALES AND SEATON.

1834.

INTRODUCTION.

Very soon after the Treaty of Peace, by which the IndependeDce of the
United States was recognised by tlie Government from which they had
effected their separation, the want of a general superintending power over
commerce, with the correlative power of taxation, was almost universally
felt, and \ery generally deplored by the inhabitants of all the States,
though not to the same extent in all.

It was easier to see the defect, and to feel the evils which flowed from it,
than to provide the remedy. Intelligent citizens, however, soon busied
themselves in devising the means of forming a Union, which should po8<>
sess the requisite authority, and become the foundation of certain and,
durable prosperity.

Of the manner in which this desirable object was consummated, the
following brief account is condensed from MarshalFs Life of WoBhingUm^
the most authentic history of that period:

' While the advocates for Union were exerting themselves to impress its
necessity on the public mind, measures were taken in Virginia, which,
though originating in different views, terminated in a proposition for a
general Convention to revise the state of the Upion.

To form a compact relative to the navigation of the rivers Potomac
and Pocombke, and of part of the bay of Chesapeake, commissioners were
appointed by the Legislatures of Virginia and Maryland, who assenibled
in Alexandria, in March, 1785. While at Mount Vernon on a visit, they
agreed to propose to their respective Governments the appointment of
other commissioners, with power to make conjoint arrangements, to
which the assent of Congress was to be solicited, for maintaining a naval
force in the Chesapeake; and to establish a Tariff of duties on imports,
to which the laws of both States should conform. When these proposi-
tions received the assent of the Legislature of Virginia, an additional
resolution was passed, directing that which respected the duties on im-
ports to be communicated to all the States in the Union, who were invited
to send deputies to the meeting.

On the 21st of January^'lTSG, a few days after the passage of these
resolutions, another was adopted by the same Legislature, appointing cer-
tain commissioners, '^ who were to meet such as might be appointed by

▼i INTRODUCTION.

the other States in the Union, at a time and place to be agreed on, to
take into consideration the trade of the United States; to examine the
relative situation and trade of the said States; to consider how far a uni-
form system in their commercial relations may be necessary to their com-
mon interest and their permanent harmony; and to report to the several
States such an act relative to this great object, as, when unanimously
ratified by them, will enable the United States, in Congress assembled^
effectually to provide for the same."

In the circular letter transmitting these resolutions to the respective
States, Annapolis, in Maryland, was proposed as the place, and the ensuing
September as the time, of meeting.

The Convention at. Annapolis was attended by commissioners from
only five States, [New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and
Virginia.] These, after appointing Mr. Dickinson their Chairman,
proceeded to discuss the objects for which they had convened. Perceiv-
ing that more ample powers would be required to effect the beneficial
purposes which they contemplated, and hoping to procure a representation
from a greater number of States, the Convention determined to rise without
coming to any specific resolutions on the particular subject which had been
referred to them. Previous to their adjournment, however, they agreed on
a Report to be made to their respective States, in which they represented
the necessity of extending the revision of the federal system to all its de-
fects, and recommended that Deputies for that purpose be appointed by
the several Legislatures, to meet in Convention in the city of Philadelphia,
on the second day of the ensuing May.

The reasons for preferring a Convention to a discussion of this subject
in Congress, were stated to be, "that, in the latter body, it might be too
much interrupted by the ordinary business before them, and would, be-
sides, be deprived of the valuable counsels of sundry individuals who
were disqualified by the constitution or laws of particular States, or by
peculiar circumstances, from a seat in that assembly."

A copy of this Report was transmitted to Congress in a letter from the
Chairman, stating the inefficacy of the Federal Government, and the ne-
cessity of devising such further provisions as would render it adequate to
the exigencies of the Union.

On receiving this Report, the Legislature of Virginia passed an act for
the appointment of Deputies, to meet such as might be appointed by other
States; to assemble in Convention at Philadelphia, at the time, and for the
purposes specified in the recommendation from the Convention which had
met at Annapolis.

At the time and place appointed, the Representatives of twelve States
convened. In Rhode Island alone, a spirit sufficiently hostile to every
species of reform was found, to prevent the election of Deputies on an
occasion so generally deemed momentous. Having unanimously chosen
General Washington for their President, the Convention proceeded, with
closed doors, to discuss the interesting and extensive subject submitted to
their consideration.

On the 1 7th of September, the Constitution was presented to the
American public. The instrument, with its accompanying resolutions,

INTRODUCTION. vii

was, by the unanimous order of the Convention, transmitted to Congress
in the following letter:

In Convention, September 17, 1787.
Sir:

We have now the honor to submit to the coDsideration of the United States in Congress
assembled, that Constitution which has appeared to us the most advisable.

The friends of our country have long seen and desired that the power of making war, peace,
and treaties, that of levying money, and regulating commerce, and the correspondent executive
and judicial authorities, should be fully and effectually vested in the General Government of
the Union; but the impropriety of delegating such extensive trust to one body of men is evident:,
hence results the necessity of a different organization.

It is obvioBsIy impracticable in the Federal Government of these States to secure all riehta
of independent sovereijgnty to each, and yet provide for the interest and safety of all. Inoivi-
dnals entering into society must give up a share of liberty to preserve the rest. The magnitude
of the sacrifice must depend as well on situation and circumstance, as on the object to be
obtained. It is at all times difficult to draw with precision the line between tliose rights which
must be surrendered, and those which may be preserved; and, on the present occasion, this
difficolty was increased by a difference among the several States as to tneir situation, extent,
habits, and particular interests.

In all our deliberations on this subject, we*kept steadily in our view that which appears to
us the greatest interest of every true American, tlie consolidation of our Union, in which is
Inv^vea ow prosperity, felicity, safety — perhaps our national existence. This important con-
sideradon, seriously ana deeply impressed on our minds, led each State in the Convention to be
/ess rigid on points of inferior magnitude than might have been otherwise expected: and thus.
the Constitution which we now present is the result of a spirit of amity, and of that mutual
deference and concession, which the peculiarity of our political situation rendered indispensable.

That it will meet the full and entire approbation of every State is not, perhaps, to be expected;
but each will, doubtless, consider, that had her interest alone been consulted, tne consequences
might have been particularly disagreeable or injurious to others; that it is liable to as few excep-
tions as could reasonably have been expected, we hope and believe; that it may promote the
lasting welfare of that Country so dear to us all, and secure her freedom and happiness, is our
most ardent wish.

With great respect, we have the honor to be, sir^ your excellency's most obedient and humble
servants. By the unanimous order of the convention.

GEO. WASHINGTON, President.

Hi$ ExceUeney the President qf Congress.

Congress resolved, unanimously, that the Report, with the letter ac-
companying it, be transmitted to the several Legislatures, in order to be
submitted to a Convention of Delegates chosen in each State by the People
thereof.

After a discussion of the Constitution in the Conventions of the seve-
ral States, during which its ultimate fate hung for some time in dubious
and ptunfiil suspense, the Conventions of eleven out of the thirteen States
sssented to, and* ratified the Constitution in the following form:

Viii INTRODUCTION.

CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES,

AS ORIGINALLY ADOPTED.*

Wb, the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish
justice, ensure aomestic tranquillity, provide for the common defence, promote the general
welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and esta-
blish this constitution for the United States of America.

ARTICLE L— SECTION 1.

1. All legislative DOwers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States,
which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

SECTION 3.

1. The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second ^ear
by the people of the several States; and the electors in each State shall have the gualificationa
requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State Legislature.

5. No person shall be a Representative who shall not have attained to the age of twenty-five
jrears, and been seven years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected,
be an inhabitant of that State in which he shall be chosen.

3. Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which
may be included within this Union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be deter-
mined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a
term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three-fifths of all other persons. The actual
enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting ot the Congress of the
United States, and within every subsequent term of ten years, in such manner as they shall by
law direct. The number of Representatives shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand, but
each State shall have at least one Representative; and until such enumeration shall be made, the
State of New Hampshire shall be entitled to choose three; Massachusetts eight; Rhode Island
and Providence Plantations one; Connecticut five; New York six; New Jersey four; Pennsyl-
vania eight; Delaware one; Maryland six; Virginia ten; North Carolina five; South Carolina
five; and Georgia three.

4. When vacancies happen in the representation from any State, the executive authority
thereof shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies.

6. The House of Representatives shall choose their Speaker, and other officers, and shall
have the sole power of impeachment.

SECTION 3.

. 1. The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State,
chosen by the Legislature thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

3. Immediately after they shall be assembled in consequence of the first election, they shall
be divided, as equal I v as may be, into three classes. The seats of the Senators of the first
class shall be vacated at the expiration of the second year, of the second class at the expiration
of the fourth year, and of the third class at the expiration of the sixth year, so that one-third
may be chosen every second year; and if vacancies happen, by resignation or otherwise, during
the recess of the Legislature of any State, the Executive thereof may make temporary appoint-
ments until the next meeting of the Legislature, which shall then fill such vacancies.

3. No person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to ,the age of thirty years, and
been nine years a citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an inhabitant
of that State for which he shall be chosen.

4. The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have
no vote, unless they be equally divided.

5. The Senate shall choose their other officers, and also a President pro tempore^ in the
absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the office of President of the United
States. '

6. The Senate shall have the sole power to trv all impeachments. When sitting for that
purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is
tried, the Chief Justice shall preside; and no person shall be convicted withoutthe concurrence
of two- thirds of the members present.

7. Judgment in cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from office,
and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit, under the United
States; but the party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to indictment, trial,
judgment, and punishment, according to law.

* The jfmem^mcn/ff subsequently adopted, and which are now a part of the Constitution, will be found
in the Appendix, at the close of this volume.

INTRODUCTION. ix

SECTION 4.

I. The times, places, and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives,
shall be prescribed in each State bj the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may, at any time,
by law, make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

8. The Congress shall assemble at least once in every year, and sucn meeting shall be on
the first Monday in December, unless they shall by law appoint a different day.

SECTION 5.

1. Each House shall be the judge of the elections, returns, and qualifications of its own
members; and a majority of each shall constitute a quorum to do business; but a smaller num-
ber may adjourn from day to day. and may be authorized to compel the attendance of absent
members, in such manner, and under such penalties, as each House may provide.

2. Bach House may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disor-
derly behavior, and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member.

3. Each House shall. keep a journal of its proceedings, and from time to time publish the
same, excepting such parts as may in their judgment requii*e secrecy; and the jeas and nays of
the members of either House, on any question, shall, at the desire of one-fifth of those pre-
sent, be entered on the journal.

4. Neither House, auring the session of Congress, shall, without the consent of the other,
adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other place than that in which the two Houses
shall be sittings

SECTION 6.

1. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a compensation for their services, to be
ascertained by law, and paid out of the treasury of the United States. They shall, in all cases,
except treason, felony, and breach of the peace, be privileged from arrest during their attend-
ance at the session of tnefr respective Houses, and in going to or returning from the same; and
for any speech or debate in eitner House, they shall not be questioned in any other place.

3. No Senator or Representative shall, during the time for which he was elected, be
appointed to any civil office under the authority of the United States, which shall have been
crated, or the emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time; and no person
holding any office under the United States shall be a member of eitiier House during his con-
tinuance in office.

SECTION 7.

1. All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the
Senate may propose or concur with amendments, as on other bills.

2. Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate shall,
before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve* he
shall sign it; but if not, he shall return it, with his objections, to that House in which it snail
buve onginated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to recon-
sider it. If, after such reconsideration, two-thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it
shall be sent, together with the obtjections, to the other House, by whicfi it shall likewise be
reconsidered, and, if approved by two-thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all
such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the
l>er8on voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respec-
tively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted)
after it shall have been presented to him. the same shall be a law in like manner as if he had
signed it* unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not
be a lawi

3. Every order, resolution, or vote, to which the concurrence of the Senate and House of
Representatives may be necessary, (except on a question of adjournment,) shall be presented
to the President of the United States; and before the same shall take efiect, shall be approved
bj him, or, being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two-thirds of the Senate and House
of Representatives, according to the rules and limitations prescribed in the case of a bill.

SECTION 8.

The Congress shall have power —

1. To lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to par the debts, and provide for
the common defence and general welfare of the United States; out all duties, imposts, and
excises, shall be uniform throughout the United States:

5. To borrow money on the credit of the United States:

3. To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with the
Indian tribes:

4. To establish an uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bank-
ruptcies throughout the United States:

5. To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of
weighs and measures:

6. To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the
United States:

X INTRODUCTION.

7. To establish post offices and post roads:

8. To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing, for limited times, to
authors and inyentoi*s^ the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries:

'9. To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court; to define and punish piracies and
felonies committed on the high seas, and offences against the law of nations:

10. To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning cap-
tures on land and water:

11. To raise and support armies; but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a
longer term than two years:

18. To provide ana maintain a navy:

13. To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces:

14. To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the Union, suppress insur-
rections^ and repel invasions:

15. To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia, and for governing such
part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states
respectively the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia accord-
ing to the discipline prescribed by Congress:

16. To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such district (not exceed-
ing ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress,
become the seat of Government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all
places purchased, by the consent of the Legislature of the State in which the same shall be, for
the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, chtckyards, and other needful buildings: and,

17. To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the
foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this constitution in the Government of the
United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

SECTION 9.

1. The migration or importation of such persons as any of the States now existing shall think
proper to admit, shall not be prohibited bv the Congress prior to the year one thousand eight
hundred and eight; but a tax or duty may be imposed on such importation, not exceeding ten
dollars for each person.

3. The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when, in cases
of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may reauire it.

3. No bill of attainder, or ex post facto law, shall be passed.

4. No capitation or other direct tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or enu-
meration hereinbefore directed to be taken.

5. No tax or dutjr shfll be laid on articles exported from any State; no preference shall be
given bv any regulation of commerce or revenue to the ports of one State over those of another;
nor shall vessels bound to or from one State be obliged to enter, clear, or pay duties in another.

6. No money shall be drawn from the treasury, but in consequence ot appropriations made
bv law; and a regular statement and account of the receipts and expenditures of all public money
shall be published from time to time.

7. No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States, and no person holding any
office of profit or trust under them snail, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any

§ resent, emolument, office, or title of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign
tate.

SECTION 10.

1. No State shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of maraue
and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make any thing but gold and silver coin a tender
in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obliga-
tion of contracts: or grant any title of nobility.

3. No State shall, without the consent of the Congress, Uiy any impNosts or duties on imports
or exports, except what may be absolutely necessary Tor executing its inspection laws; and the
net produce of all duties and imposts laid by any State on imports or exports, shall be for the
use of the treasury of the United States, and all such laws shall be subject to the revision and
control of the Congress. No State shall, without the consent of Congress, lay any duty of ton-
nage, keep troops or ships of war in time of peace, enter into any agreement or compact with
another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in war, unless actually invaded, or in such
imminent danger as will not Mmit of delay.

ARTICLE II.*-8ECTioN 1.

1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He
shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen
for the same term, be elected as follows:

S. Each State shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof majr direct, a number
of electors, equal to the wnole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may
be entitled in the Congress; but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of
trust orprofit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

3. The electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by ballot for two persons, of
whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same State with themselves. Ana they shall

INTRODUCTION. x\

make a list of all (he persons voted for. and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall
sijgn and certify, ana transmit sealed to the seat, of the Government of the United States.
directed to the President of the Senate, The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of
the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be
counted. The person having the Ereatest number of votes shall be the President, if such num-
ber be a majority of the whole nunmer of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who
have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall
immediately choose, by ballot^ one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then
from the five highest on the list the said House shall, in like manner, choose the President.
But, in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each
State having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from
two-thirds of the States, and a majority of all the States shall be necessary to a choice. In every
case, after the choice of the President, the person having tlie greatest number of votes of the
electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal
votes, the Senate shall choose from them, by ballot, the Vice President.

4. The Congress mav determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they
shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

5. No person, except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of
the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any
person be eligible to that ofllce who shall not nave attained to the age of thirty-five years, and
been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

6. In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability
to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice Presi-
dent; and the Congress may, by law, provide for the case of removal, death, resignation, or
inability, both of tlie President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as Pre-
sident; and such officer shall act accordingly until the disability be removed, or a President shall
be elected.

7. The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services a compensation, which shall
neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and
he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of
them.

8. Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirma-
tion:

.9. ^^ I do solemnly swear (or affinn) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of
the United States, and will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the consti-
tution of the United States."

SECTION 2.

1. The President sliall be commander-in-chief of the army and navy of the United States,
and of the militia of the several States when called into the actual service of the United States;
he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive depart-
ments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices; and he shall have power
to grant reprieves and pardons for offences against the United States, except in cases of im-
peachment.

3. He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties,
provided two-thirds of the Senatoi-s present concur; and he shall nominate, and, b^ and with
the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers, and
consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States whose appoint-
ments are not herein otherwise pi*ovided for, and which shall be established by law. But the
Congress may, b][ law, vest the appointment of such inferior officers as they think proper in the
President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

3. The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may hap|)en during the recess
of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

SECl'ION 3.

1. He shall, from time to time^ give to the Congress information of the state of the Union,
and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient;
he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and, in case of
disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to
such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he
shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed; and shall commission all the officers of the
United States.

SECTION 4.

I. The President, Vice President, and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed
from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and
misdemeanors.

ARTICLE III.— SECTION 1.

I. The judicibi power of the United States shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in
such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges.

xii INTRODUCTION.

both of the Supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behavior; an\l shall,
at stated times, receive for their services a compensation which shallnot be diminished during
their continuance in office.

SECTION 3.

1. The judicial power shall extend to all cases in law and equity arising under this consti-
tution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their
authority; to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers, and consuls; to all cases of
admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;
tb controversies between two or more States; between a State and citizens of another State,
between citizens of different States, between citizens of the same State claiming lands under
grants of different States, and between a State, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citi-
zens, or sufcuects.

2. In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers, and consuls, and those in which
a State shall be a party, the Supreme Couit shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other
cases before mentioned the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and
fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations, a3 the Congress shall make..

3. The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury, and such trial
shall be held in the State where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not com-
mitted within any State, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law
have directed.

SECTION 3.

1. Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in
adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort No person shall beronvicted of treason
unless on the testimbny of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

9. The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason; but no attainder of
treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture, except during the life of the person attainted.

ARTICLE IV.— SECTION 1.

I. Full faith and credit shall be given in each State to the public acts, records, and judicial
proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may, by general law v prescribe the man-
ner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

SECTION 3.

1. The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in
the several States.

9. A person charged in any State with treason, felony, or other crime, who shall flee from
justice and be found in another State, shall, on demand of the executive authority of the State
from which he fled, be delivered up, to be removed to the State having jurisdiction of the crime.

3. No person held to service or labor in one State under the laws thereof, escaping into
another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service
or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.

SECTION 3.

1. New States mav be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be
formed or erected witnin the jurisdiction of any other State, nor any State be formed by the
junction of two or more States, or parts of States, without the consent of the Legislatures of the
States concerned, as well as of the Congress.

9. The Congress shall have power to dispose of, and make all needful rules and regulations
respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this
constitution shall be so construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any
particular State.

SECTION 4.

1. The United States shall guaranty to every State in this Union a republican form of
Government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and, on application of the Legis-
lature, or of the Executive, (when the Legislature cannot be convened,) against domestic violence.

ARTICLE V.

1. The Congress, whenever two-thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall pro-
pose amendments to this constitution; or, on the application of the Legislatures or two-thirds
of the several States, shall call a convention for pro|X)sing amendments, which, in either case,
shall be valid to all intents and purposes as part of this constitution, when ratified by the Legis-
latures of three-fourths of the several States, or by conventions in three-fourths thereof, as the
one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress: Provided^ That no
amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight, shall
in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that
no State, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

INTRODUCTION. xiii

ARTICLE VI.

1 . All debts contracted, and engagements entered into, before the adoption of this constitution,
diall be as valid against the United States under this constitution as under the confederation.

3. This constitutioa, and the laws of the United States which ^all be made in pursuance
thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States,
shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any
thing in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

3. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several
State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the
several States, shall be bound by oath or'affirroation to support this constitution; but no religious
test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

ARTICLE VII.

L The ntilication of the conventions of nine States shall be sufficient for the establishment
4if this constitution between the States so ratifying the same.

Done in Convention, by the unanimous consent of the States present, the seventeenth day of
September, in the year of our liord one thousand seven hundred and eighty-seven, and
of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof
wt have hereunto subscribed our names.

GEORGE WASHINGTON,
President and deputy from Virginia.

NBW HAMPSHIRE. DELAWARE*

John Langdon, Geor^ Read,

Nicholas Oilman. Gunning Bedford, Jun.

John Dickinson,

Natha"el Gorh;S.V^ . J^l^Km""'

RufusKing. Jacob Broom.

OONNECTICnr. _ . , IIARTLAIIB.

William SamueUohnson, i?™?*H^J!^SS7» t r

Roger Sherman. game of St Tho. Jenifer,

Daniel Carroll.

NEW y6RK.

Alexander Hamilton. j,^ iiu;/™®™'^'

NEW JERSEY. ^fMLj;™ J„n

Wiliiam Livingston. J*"«* Madison, Jun.
David Brearly, north Carolina.

William Patterson, William Blount,

Jonathan Dayton. Richard Dobbs Spaight,

Hugh Williamson.

PENNSYLVANIA. ^^

Benjamin Franklin, , . J^.Y^f Carolina.

Thomas Mifflin, John Rutledge,

Robert Morris, St*'"^* Cotesworth Pinckney,

George Clymer, Charies Pinckney,

Thomas Fitzsimons, ^»erce Butler.
Jared Ingersoll, oborgia.

James Wilson, William Few.

Governeur Morris. Abraham Baldwin.

Attest, WILLIAM JACKSON, Secretary.

The preparatory measures having been taken for bringing the consti-
tution into operation, and the necessary elections of Representatives,
Senators, President, and Vice President, having been held, nothing re-
mained to start it into life but the assembly and organization of the two
Houses of Congress.

HISTORY

THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES>

AT THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIRST CONGRESS, BEGUN AT THE CITY OT

NEW YORK, MARCH 4, 1789>

VNDSR THE CONSTITUTION SVBBUTTED BY THE FEDERAL CONVENTION IN

PHILADELPHIA, SEPTEMBER 18, 1787.

f Thia feems to be a proper place to notice a fkct, which is necetaty to acccount for the mea^new
i»f tlie report of the Senate proceedings in the earlier days of the Government, viz: that the LegialatiTe
as weH as Executive sittings of the Senate were held wUk ckmedtbon until the second sesnon of the
third CoAgreai, with the single exception of the discussion of the contested election of A. Gauatzv, as
Senator froa Pennsylvania, during which discussion ti&e galleries were opened by a special order of
the Senate. On the 20th Febniaiy, 1794, the Senate came to a resolution that, after the end of that
sesnon of Congress, the galleries of the Senate should be permitted to be opened whilst the Senate
sfaoaM be engaged in its Legislative capacity, unless specially ordered otherwise. This, it will be per-
ccsved, was«n important chi^ge in the constitution of the Senate.]

WBBNESDAYt Maixh 4, 1789.

This being the day for the meetinx of the new
Coogre&s the followiDg members m the Senate
appeared and took their seats:

From New Hampshire, John Lanodon and
Paink Wing ate.

From Massachusetts. Caubb Strono.

From Connecticut, William S. Johnson and
Oliver Ellsworth.

From Pennsylvania, William Maclay and
Robert Morris.

From Georgia, William Few.

The members present not being a quorum,
they adjoamed from day to day, until

Wednesday, March 11.

When the same members being present as on
the 4th instant, it was agreed that a circular
shoold be written to the absent members, re-
questing their immediate attendance.

Thursday, March 12.

No additional members appearing, the mem-
bers present acfjourned from day to day, until

W^bdnesday, March 18.

When no additional members appearing, it
was agreed that another cic<:ular should be writ-
ten to eight of the nearest absent members, par*

ticularly desiring their attendance, in order to
form a quorum.

Thursday, March 19.

William Paterson, from New Jersey, ap-
peared and took his seat.

Friday, March 90.
No additional member appeared.

Saturday, March 31.

Richard Bassbtt, from Delaware, appeared
and took his seat.

A sufficient number of members to form a
quorum not appearing, the members present ad-
journed from day to day, until

Saturday, March 38.

Jonathan Elmer, from New Jersey, appear-
ed and took his seat.

No other member appearing, an adjournment
took place from day to day, until

Monday, April 6.

Richard Henry Lee, from Virginia, then
appearing, took his seat, and formed a quorum
of the whole Senators of the United States. ^

The credentials of the members present being
read and ordered to be fiUd, the Senate pro-

GALE8 & SEATON'S HISTORY

Procetdingi.

[April, 1789.

ceecled, bv ballot, to the choice oF a Presidctu
for the sole purpose of openineaiiil ciiuriiing \\,
TOles for President of the United States.

Joim Lanodon vviLS elected.

Ordered, That Mr. Kllswohtii inforni Ih
House of RepresenlatiTc^ that a quorum of lli
Semite is lormed; thai a Presideot is elected i"
the-sole purpose of opening the certificafeii, :iiii
countinjg the votes ol the electors of the seveni
States m the choice of a President ami Vjco
President of the United States; and that ihi-
Senate is notr ready, in the Senate cbajniber. (u
proceed, in the presence of the House, to di
charge that dutyj and (hat the Senate have a,
pointed one ol their members (o sit at the clci-jt's
table to make a list of the votes as thej shall U
declared; submitting it to Ihu wisdom of lli<
House (o appoint one or more of their menibor-
for the like purpose.

Mr. Ellsworth reported tliathehad deli,..
ed the mexsnge; and Mr. BotrnisoT, from the
House of Re pre sen tat Ives, informed the Senate
that the House is read/ forthwith to meet them,
to attend the openingand eountine of the vote;
of the electors of the President nod Vice Presi
dent of (he United States.

The Speaker and the members of the Hiiiim'
ofBeprescnlatives attended in (he Senate cham-
ber; and (he President elected for the purpiis.^
of counting the vn(es, declared that the Seni.io
and House of Representalives had met. and thiii
he, in their presence, had opened and couiitfd
the votes of the electors tor President and Vice
President of the United SUles, which were in
follows;

New Hwnpsliire,

MasMchusctts,

Connecticut,,

New Jersey,

Pcnniflvania,

Delaware,

Mnrylsnd,

Virginin,

9 4 e 3 6 2 1 I

Whereby it a
iNBTOK, Rsq. w!
Adams, Esq.Vic
ol America.

1 that Geohgk VVaj-ii
id President, and Jon.s
li-nt of the United Slut.'s

Mr. Madison, from the Houk of Representa-
tives, thus addressed the Senate:

Mr. Prewdcnl: I am directed by the Hooae of Re-
presentalLves to inform the 8en»te, th«t the Houie
h»ve agreed that the notifieations of the election of
the President and of the Vice Preiuiient of the United
atatea, »hoiild be made by such persona, and in lucti
manner, as the Senate shall be plea^d to direct.

And he withdrew.

Whereupon, the Senate appointed Chasles
Thomson, Esq^, to notify Geohqk Washino-
TON, Esq. of his election to (he office of Presi -
dentoftfce United Slates of America,and Mr.
SvLVANusBonBN, to notify John Adams, Esq.
ol his elecli^m to the office of Vice President ul
(he said United States.

A letter was received from James Duane.
Esq. enclosing resolutions of the mayor, alder-
men, and commonalty, of the city of New Vork,
tendering to Congress the use of the City Hall.

James Mathews was elected doer -keeper.

TcESDAY, April 7.
Messrs. Ellsworth, Paterson, Maclav,
Stronq, Lre, Bassbtt, Few, and Winsate,
were appointed a committee to bring in a bill
for organizing ihe Judiciary of the United States.
Messrs. Ellsworth, Lee, STRON»,MACLAy,
nd Bassett, were appointed a committee tn

Brepare rules for the government of the two
louses in cases of conference, and to take un-
tideration the manner of eleetirt^ chsp-

, _..d to confer (hereapon with a committee

of the House of Representatives.
The same committee were also to prepartr
lies fur comlucling the business of the Senate.

WKDNEsnAT, April 8.

The Senate proceeded to ballot for a Secre-
taiTtandSAMiTELALTNE Otis, Esq. was elected.

Cornelius Maiwell was appointed messen:-
ger.

Thursday, April 9.
Messrs. Lanodon, Johnson, and Fkw, were
tppointed a committee to make arrangement!*
or receiving the President, and were empiiw-
;t;ed to confer with any committee of the House
ol Representatives that may be appointed for
that purpose.

Monday. April 13.

Ralph Izahd, from South Carolina. Cimrij!s
Carroll, from Maryland, and GboiigeRked,
from Delaware, appeared and took their seats.

The report of the committee to prepare rules
fiu- condiwting the business of the Senate was
read, and ordered to lie for consideration

Messrs Johnson, [zABn, and Maclat, were
iippointed a comnaittec to confer with any com-
mittee appointed on (he part of (he House nf
lieprcsentatives, upon the future disposition of
the papers in Ihe office of (he li(e Secretary of

s GtHnjaittce appointed tu make ai-ranjgE-

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Afrii.^ 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Senate.

ments for receiving the President, were direct-
ed to settle the manner of receiving the Vice
President also.

Mr. Carroll and Mr. Izard were added to
the Judiciary Committee.

Tuesday, April 14.

Tristram Dalton, from Massachusetts, ap-
peared and took his seat.

A letter was written to the mayor of the city
of New York, by the President of the Senate,
acknowledging tne respect shown to the Govern-
ment, and accepting' of the offer made by him
of the City Hall for the ase of Congress.

Wednesday, April 15.

The committee afMpointed the 7th of April, to

Separe a system of rules to govern the two
ouses in cases of conference^ to take into con^
sideration the manner of electing chaplains, and
to confer thereon with a committee ot the House
of Representatives, reported:

Tliat they hid confened with a committee of the
House of Representatives, for that purpose appoint-
ed.

Whereupon,

Rffif^"^, That, in every case of an amendment to
a bill agreed to in one House and dissented to in
the other, if either House shall request a conference,
and appoint a committee for that purpose, and the
other House shall also appoint a committee to confer,
such committees shall, at a convenient time, to be
agreed on by their chairman, meet in the conference
chamber, and state to each other verbally, or in
writing, as either shall choose, the reasons of their
rcspectrre Houses for and against the amendment,
and confer freely thereon.

The committee abovementioned farther re-
ported.

That two chaplains, of different denominations,
be appcnnted to Congress for the present session, the
Senate to appoint one, and g^ve notice thereof to the
House of Representatives, who shall, thereupon, ap-
point the other; which chaplains shall commence
their services in the flouses that appoint them, but
shall interchange weekly.

WhicVi wa% also accepted.
The committee to whom it was referred to
consider of, and report respecting the ceremo-
nial of receiving the President, and the arrange-
ments necessary for the reception of the VTce
President, agreed to the following report, viz:

That 3fr. Osgood, the proprietor of the house
lately occupied by the President of Congress, be re-
quested to put the same, and the furniture thereof,
in proper condition for the residence and use of the
President of the United States, and otherwise, at the
expense of the United States, to provide for his tern-
poraiy accommodation.

That it will be more eligible, in the first instance,
that a committee of three members from the Senate,
snd fire members from the House of Represents-
tires, to be appointed by the two Houses respective-
ly, attend to receive the President, at such place as
he shall embark from New Jersey to this city, and
conduct him, without form, to the house lately oc»

cupied by the President of Congress; and that, at
such time thereafter as the President shall signify it
will be most convenient ^or him, he be formally re-
ceived by both Houses.

That a committee of two members from the Se-
nate, and three members &om the House of Repre-
sentatives, to be appointed by the Houses respect-
ively, wait on the Vice President of tlie United
States, as soon as he shall come to this city, and, in
the name of the Congress of the United States, con-
gratulate him on his arrival.

Which report was read and accepted.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration of
the report of the committee upon rules for
conducting the business of the Senate, and,
after some progress, adjourned to 11 o'clock
to-morrow morning.

Thursday, April 16.

The Senate proceeded by ballot to the choice
of the committees, conformably to the report of
the committee of both Houses, agreed to on {he
15th instant: Mr. Lanodon, Mr. Carroll, aad
Mr. Johnson, were appointed to wait on the
President, and Mr. Ellswotrh, and Mr. Dal-
TON, were appointed to wait on the Vice Presi-
dent.

Ordered^ That Mr. Strong, Mr. Izaro, and
Mr. Lee, tie a committee to report a mode of
communication to be observed between the
Senate and House of Representatives with re-
spect to papers, bills, and messages, and to con-
fer thereon with such committee as ma^ be ap-
pointed by the House of Representatives for
that purpose.

The report of the committee appointed to de-
termine upon rules for conducting business in
the Senate was agreed to. Whereupon,

Itesolved, That the following rules, from No. I to
XIX, inclusive, be observed;

I. The President having taken the chair, and a
quorum being present, the journal of the preceding
day shall be read, to the end that any mistake may
be corrected that shall have been made in the entries.

II. No member shall speak to another, or other-
wise interrupt the business of the Senate, or read
any printed paper while the journals or public papers
are reading, or when any member is speaking in any
debate.

III. Every member, when he speaks, shall address
the chair, standing in his place, and when he has
finished shall sit down,

IV. No member shall speak more than twice in
any one debate on the same day, without leave of
the Senate.

y. When two members rise at the same time, the
President shall name the person to speak; but in all
cases the member first rising shall speak first.

VI. No motion shall be debated until the same
shall be seconded.

VII. When a motion shall be made and seconded,
it shall be reduced to writing, if desired by the Pre-
sident, or any member, delivered in at the table, and
read by the President before the same shall be de-
bated.

VIII. While a question is before the Senate, no
motion shall be received unless for an amendment;

GALES & SEATON^S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings,

April, 1789.

for the prerious question, or for postponing the main
question, or to commit it, or to adjourn.

IX. The previous question being moved and se-
conded, the question from the chair shall be: ''Shall
the main question be now put?" And if the nays
prevail, the main question shall not then be put

X. If a question in debate contain several points,
any member may have the same divided.

XI. When the yeas and nays shall be called for by
one-fifth of the members present, each member
called upon shall, unless for special reasons he be
excused by the Senate, declare, openly and without
debate, his assent or dissent to the question. In
taking the yeas and nays, and upon the call of the
House, the names of the members shall be taken
alphabetically.

XII. One day's notice at least shall be ffiven of an
intended motion for leave to bring in a bill.

XIII. Every bill shall receive mree readings pre-
vious to its being passed; and the President shall give
notice at each, whether it be the first, second, or
third; which readings shall be on three different
days, unless the Senate unanimously direct other-
wite.

XIV. No bill shall be committed or amended until
it shall have been twice read, after which it may be
referred to a committee.

XV. All committees shall be appointed by ballot,
and a plurality of votes shall make a choice.

XVI. When a member shall be called to order, he
shall sit down until the President shall have deter-
mined whether he is in order or not; and eveiy ques-
tion of order shall be decided by the President,
without debate; but, if there be a doubt in his mind,
he may call for the sense of the Senate.

XVII. If a member be called to order for words
spoken, the exceptionable words shall be immedi-
ately taken down in writing, that the President may
be better enabled to judg^ of the matter.

XVIII. When a bUnk is to be filled, and Afferent
sums shall be proposed, the question shall be taken
on the highest sum first.

XIX. No member shall absent himself from the
service of the Senate without leave of the Senate
first obtained.

Friday, April 17.
The petition of Leonard Bleecker, to be ap-
pointed sergeant-atarms, was read, and ordered
to lie on the table.

Saturday, April 18.

A letter from the Speaker of the House to the
President was read, enclosing a concurrence of
the House, with the resolve of Senate of the 15tli,
upon. the mode of conference between the Se-
nate and House of Representatives; also, a
concurrence upon the mode of choosing chap-
lains.

On motion,

BtBobstd^ That the following be subjoined to the
standing orders of the Senate:

XX. Before any petition or memorial, addressed
to the Senate, shall be received uid read at the table,
whether the same shall be introduced by the Presi-
dent or a member, a brief statement of the contenii
of the petition or memorial shall verbally be made
by the mtroducer.

Monday, April 20.

John Henry, from Maryland, and Jambs
GuNN, from Georgia, appeared and took tlieir
seats.

Messrs. Strong and Izard, were appointed
a committee to wait on the Vice President, and
conduct him to the Senate chamber.

Tuesday, April 21.

The committee appointed to conduct the Vice
President to the Senate chamber, executed their
commission, and Mr. Langdon, the Vice Pre-
sident pro tempore, meeting the Vice President
on the floor of the Senate chamber, addressed
him as follows.

Sib: I have it in chaige from the Senate, to in-
troduce you to the chair of this House; and, also*
to congratulate you on your appointment to the
office of Vice President of the United States of
America.

After which Mr. Lanodon conducted the
Vice President to the chair, when the Vice
President addressed the Senate as follows:

Otntkmen of the SemUe:

Invited to this respectable situation by the
suffrages of our fellow-citizens, accordinr to the
ronititution, I have thought it my duty cheeifully
and readily to accept it. Unaccustomed to re-
fuse any public service, however dangerous to my
reputation, or disproportioned to my talents, it.
would have been inconsistent to have adopted,
another maxim of conduct at this time, when the
prosperity of the countiy, and the liberties of the
people, require, perhaps, as much as ever, the at-
tention of those who possess any share of the pub-
lic confidence.

I should be destitute of sensibility, if, upon my
anival in this city, and presentation to this legisla-
ture, and especially to this Senate, I could see*
without emotion, so many of those characters, of
whose virtuous exertions I have so often been a
witness — from whose countenances and examples I
have ever derived encouragement and animation;
whose disinterested friendship has supported me,
in many intricate conjunctures of public affairs, at
home and abroad; those celebrated defenders of the
liberties of this countiy, whom menaces could not
intimidate, corruption seduce, or flattery allure:
those intrepid assertors of the rights of mankind,
whose philosophy and policy have enlightened the
world, in twenty years, more than it was ever before
enlightened in many centuries, by ancient schools,
or modem universities.

I must have been inattentive to the course of
events, if T were either ignorant of the fame, or in-
sennble to the merit of those other characters in the
Senate, to whom it has been my misfortune to have
been hitherto personally unknown.

It is with satisfaction that 1 congratulate the
people of America on the formation of a national
Constitution, and the fair prospect of a connstent
administration of a government of laws. On the
acquisition of a House of Representatives, chosen
by themselves; of a Senate thus composed by their
own State Legislatures; and on the prospect of an
executive authority, in the hands of one whose por-
trait I Bhall not presume to draw. Were I blessed

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

1789.]

ProcitdingB.

[SBNATk.

vith powen to do justice to hla chancter^ it would
be impoinble to increase the confidence or sfTection
of his countij, or make the smallest addition to his
gUny. This can only be effected by a discbarge of
the preaent exalted trust on the same principles,
with the same abilities and yirtues, which have
unifoniily appeared in all his former conduct, pub-
Ik or private. Hay I, nevertheless, be indulged to
inquire, if we look over the catalogue of the first
magistrates of nations, whether they have been de-
Doaunsfted prcsdents or consuls, kmgs or princes,
where shall we find one, whose commanding talents
and vvtoes, whose over-ruling good fortune, have
so completely united all hearts and voices in his
&vor' who enjoyed the esteem and adnuMtion of
finreig^a nations and fellow-citizens with equal una-
nimity? Qualities so uncommon, are no common
bleaaings to Uie country that possesses them. By
those great qualities, and their benign effects, has
Prcmdence marked out the head of this nation, with
a band so distinctly visible, ss to have been seen
by sH men, and mistaken by none.

It is not for me to interrupt your deliberations by
aoy^ ^neral obterrations on the state of the nation,
or by recommending or proposing any particular
measure. It would be superfluous, to gentlemen
of your great experience, to urge the necessity of
order. It is only necessaiy to make an apology for
myself. Not wholly without experience in public
asKmbliea, I have been more accustomed to take a
share in thehr debates, than to prende in their
ddibetatioos. It shall be my constant endeavor to
behave towards eveiy member of this most honorable
body widi aU that consideration, deUcajqr, and deco-
nin^ which becomes the dignity of his station and
charscter; but if, from inexperience or inadvertency,
any thing should ever escape me, inconustent with
propriety, I must entreat you, by imputing it to its
true cause, and not to any want of respect, to par-
don and excuse it.

A trust of the greatest magnitude b committed
to this Legislature; and the eyes of the world are
iipoo you. Tour country expects,- from the results
ofyovir denberations, in ooncorrence with the other
branches c^ Government, consideration abroad, and
contentment at home— prosperity, order, justice,
peace, and Uberty. And may God Almighty's Pro-
* ^ you to answer their just expectations.

be csiried by the Secretary, who shall make one
obeisance to the Chair, on entering the door of the
House of Representatives, and another on delivering
it at the table into the hands of the Speaker. After
he shall have delivered it, he shall make an obei-
sance to the Speaker, and repeat it as he retires
from the House.

When a bill shsH be sent up by the House of
Representatives to the Senate, it shall be carried by
two members, who, at the bar of the Senate, shall
make their obeisance to the President, and thence,
advancing to the Chair, make a second obeisancot
and deliver it into the hands of the President. After
having delivered the bill, they shall make their
obeisance to the President, and repeat it as they re-
tire from the bar. The Senate shall rise on the
entrance of the members within the bar, and con-
tinue standing until they retire.

AU other messages from the House of Itepresen-
tatives, shall be carried by one member, who shall
make his obeisance as above mentioned; but the
President of the Senate, alone, shall rise.— *Read
and accepted*

On motion,

Reaohtd^ That a committee, connsting of three
members, be appointed to confer and report, what
st^le or titles it will be proper to annex to the offices
of Prendent and Vice President of the United
States; if any other than those given in the Con-
stitution, Also, to consider of the time, place, and
manner, in which, and the person by whom, the
oath prescribed by the Constitution shall be admin-
istered to the President; and to confer thereon with
such committee as the House of Representatives
shall appoint for that purpose. Mr. Las, Mr. ISAmn,
and Mr. Daltof, were chosen.

Wbdnbsi>at« April 29.

Saturday next was assigned for proceeding
to elect a chaplain.

The petition of William Finnie to be appoint*
ed aeii^uit-at-amis, was read and laid on the
table.

Tbuksday, April 28.

The committee appointed on the 16th of
April, to report a mode of communication to
be obaerred between the Senate and Uonse of
Representatives, with respect to papers, bills,
and messages, and to confer thereui with such
oemmittee as maybe appointed by the House of
Representatives for that pnrpose, have confer-
red with a committee of the House, and have
aiu^ed to the following report:

Whea a bill or other message shall be sent from
the Senate to the House of RepresentativeB, it shall

Friday, April 24.

On motion, to reconsider the commission of
the committee appointed the 23d instant, to
report what titles shall be annexed to the offi-
ces of President and Vice President. Passed
in the affirmative.

On motion, that the following words, ^ What
titles it will be proper to annex to the offices
of President ana of Vice President of the
United States; if any other than those given in
the Constitution," be struck ont Passed in
the negative.

On motion, that the words ^^ stvie or" before
the word *' title," be added. Passed in the
affirmative.

Saturday, April 25.

The Right Reverend Samubl Provost was
elected Chaplain.

A letter from Charles Thomson, Esq. dated
tlie 34th of April, 1789, directed to the Presi-
dent of the Senate, purporting his having de-
livered to General W ashinoton, the certificate
of his being elected President of the United
States, was read, and ordered to be filed.

The committee appointed to consider of the
time, place, and nianer, in which* and of the
person b]|r whom, tne oath prescribed \yf ^^.^
Constitition shall be administered to the Presi-

fiS

QAUES & SEATOT«rB HISTORY

Sbnats.]

Prwitedings,

[April, 17S9.

dent of the United States, and to confer with
a committee of the Hou»e appointed for that
purpose, report:

Tliat the President hath b«en pleased to signify
to them, that any time or place which both Houses
may think proper to appoint, and any manner which
shall appear most eligfible to them, will be conveni-
ent and acceptable to him; that requisite prepara-
tions cannot probably be made before Thursday
next; that ^e President be on that day formally re-
ceived by both Houses in the Senate Chamber; that
the Representatives' Chamber being capable of re-
eeivinff the greater number of persons, that, there-
f<»«, the President do take the oath in that place,
and in the pretence of both Houses.

That, alter the formal reception of the Pi«mdent
in the Senate Chamber, he br attended by both
Houses to the Representatives' Chamber, and that
the oath be administered by the Chancellor of the
State of New York.

The committee farther report it as their opinion,
that it will be proper that a committee of both
Houses be appointed to take order for conducting
the business. Read and accepted.

Whereupon, Mr. Lxb, Mr. Izard, and Mr.
Ualton, on the part of the Senate, together
with a committee that may be appointed on the
part of the House of Kepresentatires, were
empowered to take order for conducting the
business.

An order of the House of Representatives,
concurring in the appointment of a committee
on their part to confer with a committee ap-
Minted on the S4th instant, on the part of the
senate, to consider and report, ** what style,
&c. it will be proper to annex to the offices of
President and Vice President," was read, by
which it appeikred, that Mr. Benson, Mr.
Ambs, Mr. Madison, Mr. Ca&roll, and Mr.
Sherman, were appointed on the part of the
House.

Monday, April 27.

The committee appointed to take order for
conducting the ceremonial of the formal recep*
tion, &c. of the President, reported:

That it appears to them more eligible tliatthe
oath ahould be administered to the President in the.
outer gallery adjoining the Senate Chamber, than
in the Representatives' Chamber, and, therefore,
submit to the respective Houses the propriety of
authorizing their committee to take order as to the
place where the oath shall be adminiiitered to the
President, the resolution of Saturday assigning the
Representatives' Chamber as the place, notwith-
standing. Read and accepted.

JReaohtdj That afler the oath shall have been ad-
minifltered to the President, he, attended by the
Vice President, and members of the Senate, and
House of Representatives, proceed to St. Paul's
C^iapel, to bear divine service, to be peHbrmed by
the Chaplain of Congress already appointed. Bent
to the House af Representatives for concurrence.

Tuesday, April S8.
Received from the Ffouse of Representatives,
the report of a joint committee on the cere*

monial to be observed in administering the oath,
&c. to the President; and a bill to regulate the
time and manner of administering certain oaths.
The report was read and ordered to lie on the
table; and the bill received its first reading.

The committee appointed to report a mode
of communication between the two Houses,
with respect to papers, bills, &c. and to whom
the subject was recommitted, having ag&in con-
ferred with the committee of the House of
Representatives, agreed upon a report, which
was read, and ordered to lie for consideration.

Wbdmbsdat, April 39.

The Senate proceeded to the second, reading
of the bill to regulate the time and manner of
administering certain oaths; and, afler debate,
it was committed to Messrs. Strong, Patter-
son, Reed, Johnson, and Henry.

A letter from the Speaker of the House of
Representatives, to the Vice President, was
read, communicating the concurrence of the
House on a report ot a joint committee, on the
mode of communicating papers, bills, and mes-
sages, between the Senate and House of Repre-
sentatives;

Also, the concurrence of the House with the
Senate, on the appointment of a committee
respectine the future disposition of the papers
in the office of the late Secretarv; and Mr.
Trumbull, Mr. Cadwalladbr, and Mr. Jack-
son, were joined.

Thursday, April 30.

The report of the committee on the mode of
communication between tlie Senate and House
of Repre^^entatives, was taken up, and, after
debate, postponed.

Mr. IjEb, in behalf of the committee appoint*
ed to take order for conducting the ceremonial
of the formal reception, &c. of the President
of the United States, having informed the
Senate that the same was adjusted, the House
of Representatives were notified that the Senate
were ready to receive them in the Senate Cham-
ber, to attend the President of the United
States, while taking the oath required b^ the
Constitntion. Whereupon, the House of Re-
presentatives, preceded oy their Speaker, came
into the Senate Chamber, and took the seats
assigned them, and the joint committee, pre-
ceded by their chairman, agreeabljr to ormr,
introduced the President of the United States
to the Senate Chamber, where he was received
by the Vice President, who conducted him to
the chair, when the Vice President informed
him, that **the Senate, and House of Repre-
sentatives of the United States, were ready
to sttend him to take the oath required by the
Constitntion, and that it wonid be administered
br the Chanbellor of the State of New York.*'
To which the President replied* he was ready
to proceed: and being attended to the gallery
in front of the Senate Chamber, by the Vice
President and Senators, the Speaker and Re-

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Mat, 1789.]

Proceedings^

[SSIKATB.

presentativeg, and the other public characters
present, the oath was administered. After
which, the Chancellor proclaimed, ^* -^^^^ong live
George H^aehmgUm^ FreeiderU ^ the United
SiaUe.^

The Prbsidbnt, having returned to his seat,
after a short pause arose, and addressed the
Senate and House of Repreisentatives as fol-
Jows:

FtQow Citizens of the Senate, and

of the Houee of JRqMreteniaiive$,-

AiDOtig the vicbsitudes incident to life, no event
could hare filled me with greater anxieties than that
of which the notification was transmitted by your
order, and receiyed on the 14th day of the present
month. On the one hand, I was summoned by mv
country, whose voice I can never hear but with
veneration and love, from a retreat which I had
chosen with the fondest predilection, and, in my
Aaltenng hopes, with an immutable decision, as ^e
Asylum of my declining years: a retreat which was
rendered every day more necessary, as well as more
dear to me, by the addition of habit to inclination,
and of frequent interruptions in my health, to the
gradual waste committed on it by time. On the
other hand, the magnitude and diflUculty of the
trust to which the voice of my country called me,
being sufficient to awaken in the wisest and most
experienced of her citizens a distrustful scrutiny
into his qualifications, could not but overwhelm witib
despondence one, who, inheriting inferior endow-
ments from nature, and unpractised in the duties of
eiviJ administration, ought to be peculiarly con-
scious of his own deficiencies. In this conflict of
emotions, ail I dare aver is, that it has been my
fidthful study to collect my duty from a iust appre-
dation of every circumstance by which it might be
eifected. All I dare hope is, that if, in executing
this task, I have been too much swayed by a grate-
ful remembrance of former instances, or by an
affectionate sensibility to this transcendant proof of
the confidence of my fellow-citizens, and have
thence too little consulted my incapacity as well as
disDctination for the weighty and untried cares be-
fore me, my error will be palliated by the motives
wbkh Txualed me, and its consequences be judged
by my country, with some share of the partiality in
which they originated.

Such being the impressions under which 1 have,
in obedience to the public summons, repaired to
the present station, it would be peculiarly improper
to omit, in this first official act, myjervent supplica-
tions to that Almighty Being, who rules over the
universe — who presides in the councils of nations—
and whose providential aids can supply every hu-
man defect — that his benediction may consecrate to
the liberties and happiness of the people of the
United States, a Government instituted by them-
selves* for these essential purposes: and may enable
every instrument employed in its administration to
execute with success the functions allotted to his
charge. In tendering this homage to the Great
Aat£ir of every public and private good, I assure
myself thU It expresses your sentiments not less
t&io my own* uor those of my fellow-eitizens at
hffgt less than either. No people can be bound to
4

acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which
conducts the afiairs of men, more than the people
of the United States. £veiy step by which they
have advanced to the character of an independent
nation* seems to have been distinguished by some
token of providential agency; and in the important
revolution just accomplished in the system of their
united Government, the tranquil deUberations and
voluntaiy consent of so many distinct communities
from' which the event has resulted, caimot be com-
pared with the means by which most Governments
have been establiriied, without some return of pious
gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the
fixture blessings which the past seems, to presage.
These reflections, arising out of the present qrisis^
have forced thenselves too strongly on my mind to
be suppreswd. You will join with me, I trust, in
thinking, that there are none under the influence
of which the proceedings of a new and free Gov-
ernment can more auspiciously commence.

By the article establishing the executive depart-
ment, it is nuuie the duty of the President "to
recommend to your consideration such measures as
he shall judge neceasaiy and expedient." The
circumstances under which I now meet you will
acquit me from entering into that subject, further
than to refer to the great^ constitutional charter
under which you are assembled, and which, in de-
fining your powers, designates the objects to which
your attention is to be given. It will be more con-
sistent with those circumstances, and far more con-
genial with the feelings which actuate me, to sub-
stitute, in place of a i^commendation of particular
measures, the tribute that is due to the talents, the
rectitude, and the patriotism, which adorn the char-
acters selected to devise and adopt tliem. In these
honorable qualifications, 1 behold the surest pledges,
that, as on one side no local prejudices or attach-
ments, no separate views, nor party animosities, will
misdirect the comprehensive and equal eye which
ought to watch over this great assemblage of com-
munities and interests; so, on another, that the
foundations of our national policy will be laid in the
pure and immutable principles if private morality,
and the pre-eminence of free Government be ex-
emplified by all tlie attributes wluch can win the
affections of its citizens, and command the respect
of the world. I dwell on thb prospect with every
satisfaction which an ardent love for my country can
inspire: since there is no truth more thoroughly
established, than that there exists, in the economy
and course of nature, an indissoluble union between
virtue and happiness; between duty and advantage;
between the genuine maxims of an honest and mag-
nanimous policy, and the solid rewards of pubhc
prosperity and felicity: since we ought to oe no
less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven
can never be expected on a nation that disregards
the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven
itself has ordained; and since the preservation of
the sacred fire of liberty, and the destiny of the
republican model of Government, arc justly con-
sidered as deeply, perhaps as finally, staked, on the
experiment entrusted to the hands of the American
people.

Besides the ordinary objects submitted to your
care, it will remain with your judgment to decide
Itow far an exercise of the occasional power de]e-

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Senate. >

Proceedings.

May, 1789.

gated bj the fifth article of the Constitution, is
rendered expedient at the present juncttire, by the
nature of objections which have been urged against
the system, or by the degree of inquietude which
has gpyen birth to them. Instead of undertaking
particular recommendations on this subject, in which
t could be g^ded by no lights derived from official
opportunities, I shall again give way to my entire
confidence in your discernment and pursuit of the
public good: for, I assure myself, that whilst you
carefully avoid every alteration which might endan-
ger the benefits of a united and effective Govern-
ment, or which ought to await the future lessons of
experience; a reverence for the characteristic rights
of freemen, and a reg^ard for the public harmony,
will sufficienUy influence your deliberations on the

aiestion, how far the former can be more impregna-
y fortified, or the latter be safely and advantage-
ously promoted.

To the preceding observations I have one to add,
which will be most properly ad^ssed to the House
of Representatives. It concerns myself, and will,
therefore, be as brief as possible. When I was
first honored with a c4U into the service of my
country, then on the eve of an arduous struggle
for its liberties, the light in which 1 contemplated
my duty required that 1 should renounce ^ytry
pecuniary compensation. From this resolution I
oave in no instance depaKed . And being still under
the impressions which produced it, I must decline,
as inapplicable to myself, any share in the personal
emoluments which may be indispensably included in
a permanent provision for the executive department;
and must accordingly pray that the pecuniary esti-
mates for the station in which I am placed may,
during my continuance in it, be limfited to such
actual expenditures as the public good may be
thought to require.

Having thus imparted to you my sentiments, as
they have been awakened by the occasion which
brings us together, 1 shall take my present leave;
but not without resorting once more to the benign
Parent of the human race, in humble supplication,
ihat, since He has been pleased to favor the American
people with opportunities for deliberating in perfect
tranquillity, and dispositions for deciding with un-
paralleled unanimity on a form of Government for
the security of their union, and the advancement of
their happiness, so his divine blessing may be equally
conspicuous in the enlarged views, the temperate
consultations, and the wise measures, on which the
success of tlUs Government must depend.

G. WASHINGTON.

April 30, 1789.

The President, the Vice President, the Sen-
ate, and House of Representatives, &c. then
proceeded to St. Paul's Chapel, where divine
service was performed by the chaplain of Con-

Sress, after which the President was recon-
ucted to his house by the committee appoint-
ed for that purpose.

The Vice President and Senate returned to
the Senate Chamber; and,

Upon motion, unanimously agreed, That a
committee of three should be appointed to pre-
pare an answer to the President's speech. Mr,

JcHiNsoN, Mr. Patkrson, and Mr. Cabroll,

were elected.

Friday, May 1.

The report of the joint committee, to whom
was recommitted the mode of communication
between the Senate and House of Representa-
tives, as made by the committee on the part of
the Senate, was taken up. and not accepted.

The same report of the committee on the
part of the House, and the acceptance thereof
by the House, was considered in the Scliate.
and it was determined that it should lie until
further order.

A motion, ^^ That, when a messenger shall
come from the House of Representatives to
the Senate* and shall be announced by the door-
keeper, the messenger shall be received at the
bar of this House oy the Secretary, and the
bill or paper that he may bring shall there t)e
received from him b^ the Secretary, who shall
deliver it to the President of the Senate^" wa&
committed to Mr. Ellsworth, Mr. Ler^ and
Mr. Read.

And the committee were instructed to report
a mode of sending papers, bills, and messages^
from the Senate to the House of Representa-
tives.

Saturday, May 2.

*^eedf That, until a permanent mode of com*-
mumcation shall be adopted between the Senate
and House of Representatives, the Sena^ will re-
ceive messages by the Clerk of the House, if the
House shall think proper to send him; and papers
sent from the House shall be delivered to the
Secretary at the bar of the Senate, and by him be
conveyed to the President.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives, by Mr. Beckley, their Clerk, brought to
the Senate the proceedings of the House on a
resolution of the Senate of the 27th ult.j atso»
communicated the appointment of the Rev.
William Lynn, D. D. one of the Chaplains of
Congress.

Mr. Strong, from the committee to whom
the bill from the House of Representatives was
referred, to regulate the time and manner of
administering certain oaths, reported sundry
amendments thereto, which were assigned for
consideration on Monday nest.

Monday, May 4.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the Import of the committee on the bill to
regulate the time and manner of administering
certain oaths.

In line 1, strike out the words ^Congpress of the
United States," and insert, ** Senate and Repre-
sentatives of the United States of America, in Con-
gress assembled."

At the end of the second paragraph, add the
words "of the Senate," and insert the following^
clause: '*j8ndbe it further emu^ed; That the mem-
bers of the several State Legislatures, and all ezecn-

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Mat, 1789.]

Proceedings*

[Senatk.

tire and judicui officers of the several State^^ who
have been heretofore chosen or appointed, or who
shall be chosen or appointed before the first day of
August next, and who shall then be in office, shaJl,
within one month thereafter, take the same oath or
affirmation, except where they shall have taken it
before; which may be administered by any person
authorized by the. law of the State in which such
office shall be holden to administer oatlis. And the
meoiben of the several State Legislatures, and all
executive and Judicial officers of the several States,
who shall be chosen or appointed after the said
first day of August, shall, before they proceed to
execute the duties of their respective offices, take
the foregoing oath or affirmation, which shall be
administered by the person or person^, who, by the
law of the State, shall be authorized to administer
the oath of office; and the person or persons so ad-
ministering the oath hereby required to be taken,
shallcause a record or certificate thereof to be made,
m the same manner as, by the law of the State, he
or they shaTI be directed to record or certify the
oath of office.*'

in the last paragraph, strike out the words **of
the United States of America," in the third and
fourth lines, und insert the same words in the fourth
line next after the words "as the case may be;"-—
and which being accepted, Tuesday morning, 11
o'clock, was assigned for the third reading of the
bill.

Tuesday, May 6.

The bill to regulate the time and manner of
administeriDg certain oaths was read the third
time and passied, with amendments.

Qr^BFedt That the Secretary cany the afore-
meotioBed bill to the House of Representadvea,
together with the amendments, and address the
Speaker in the word^ following:

Sib:

The Senate have passed the bill, entitled ** kxk
act to reflate the time and manner of administer-
ing certaui oaths," with amendments, to which they
doire the concurrence of your Uouse«

Ordendy That when a bill has passed the Senate,
the Secretary shall endorse the final determination
thereon, and the day when such final question was
taken, previoos to its being transmitted to the House
of Representatives.

Ad/oumed to Thursday morning.

Thursday, May 7.

The committee appointed to confer with
such committee as might be appointed on the
part of the House, of Representatives, to re*
port what style or titles it will be proper to
annex to the offices of President and of Vice
President of the United States, if any other
than those given in the Constitntion, reported.

Which r^Kirt «'as ordered to lie for conside-
ration.

The report of the committee upon the motion
tommitted M«f 1st, was considered, and the
fir«t paragraph thereof accepted; whereupon,

(kdtredt This^ when a messenger shall come from
<^ House of Representatives to the Senate, and

shall be announced by the door-keeper, the mes*
senger or messengers being a member or members
of the House, shall be received within the bar, the
President rising when the messsge is by one mem-
ber, and the Senate also when it is by two or more:
if the messenger be not a member of the House,
he shall be received at the bar by the Secretaiy,
and the bill or papers that he may bring shall there
be receive^d from him by the Secretary, and be by
him delivered to the President.

The committee appointed to prepare an
answer to the President's speech, delivered to
the Senate and, House of Representatives of
(he United States, reported as follows:

Sia: We, the Senate of the United States, return
you our sincere thanks for your excellent speech
delivered to both houses of Congress^ congratulate
you on the complete organization of the Federal
Government^ and felicitate ourselves and our fellow-
citizens on your elevation to the office of Presidents
an office highly important by the powers constitu-
tionally annexed to it, and extremely honorable from
the manner in which the appointment is made. The
unanimous suffrage of the elective body in your
favor, is peculiarly expressive of the gratitude,
confidence, andaffeetion of the citizens of America,
and is the highest testimonial at once of jour
merit and their esteem. We are sensible, sir,, thttt
nothing but the voice of your fellow-citizens could
have called you from a retreat^ chosen with the fon^
est predilection, endeared by habit, and consecrated
to the repose of declining years. We rejoice, and
with us all America, that, in obedience to the call
of our common country, you have returned once
more to public life. In you all psrtTes confide; in
you all interests unite; and we have no doubt that
your past services, great as they have been, will be
equalled by yonr future exertions; and that your
prudence and sagaeitv as a statesman will tend to
avert the dangers to which we are exposed, to give
stability to the present 'Government, and dignity
and splendor to that country, which your skill and
valor, as a soldier, so eminently contributed to ruse
to independence and empire.

When we contemplate the coincidence of circum-
stances, and wonderful combination of causes,
which gradually prepared the people of this coun-
try for independence; when we contemplate the
rise, progress, and termination of the late war,
which gave them a name among the nations of the
earth; we are, with you, unavoidably led to acknow-
ledge and adore the great Arbiter of the universe, by
whom empires rise and fall. A review of the many
signal instances of divine interposition in fcvor m
this country claims our most pious gratitude; and
permit us, sir, to observe, that, among the great
events which have led to the formation and estab-
lishment of a Federal Government, we esteem voor
acceptance of the office of President as one of the
most propitious and important.

In the execution of the trust reposed in ui» we
shall endeavor to pursue that enlarged and libersl
policy to which your speech so happily directs. We
are conscious that the prosperity of each State is in-
separably connected with the welfare of all, and
that, in promoting the latter, we shall eflTectually ad-
vance the former. In full persuanon of this truth.

GALES Sl SEATON S HISTORY

Sknate.]

Proeeedinffs,

[May, 1789,

it shall be our invariable aim to <Uve8t ourselves of
local prejudices and attachments, and to view the
great assemblag'e of communities and interests com-
mitted to our charge with an equal •ye. We feel,
sir, the force, and acknowledg'e the justness of the
observation, that the foundation of our national
policy should be laid in private morality. If indi-
viduals be not influenced by moral principles, it is
m vain to look for public virtue; it is, therefore, the
duty of legislators to enforce, both by precept and
example, the utility, as well as the necessity, of a
strict adherence to the rules of distributive justice.
We beg* you to be assured that the Senate will, at
all times, cheerfully co-operate in every measure
which may istrengthen the Union, conduce to the
happiness, or secure and perpetuate the liberties of
tliis great confederated republic.

We commend you, sir, to the protection of
Almighty God, earnestly beseeching him long to
preserve a life so valuable and dear to the people of
the United States; and that your administration may
be prosperous to the nation, and glorious to your-

8CU«

Read and accepted; and

Ordered, That the Vice President should affix his
signature to the address, in behalf of the Senate.

Mr. Beckley, the Clerk of the House of
Representatives, delivered a message, purport-
ing ^ that the House had concurred witfi the
Senate in the amendments proposed in a bill to
regulate th^s time and manner of administerins
eertadnc oaths;'* and, ** that the House proposed
Ml amend ntent to the third amendment, by
inserting after the words * legislatures in the
first place/ the words ^ at the next session of
the said legislatures respectively.' "

He al&o brought the Senate a resolve of the
House of Representatives, appointing Mr.
Bland, Mr. Trumbull, and Mr. Yinino, a
eommittee on the part of the House, to confer
with any committee to be appointed on the
part ef the Senate, and report *^ joint rules to
be established between the two Houses, for the
enrolment, &c. of the acts of Congress, and
to confer on the mode of presenting addresses,
bins, &c. to the President."
^ The Senate agreed to the amendment pro-
posed by the House of Representatives to the
ameiHlmemt of the afore-mentioned bill; and
appointed Mr» Lanodon. Mr. Read, and Mr.
Hemrt, a committee on tneir part, for the pur-
pose expressed in the resolve of the House of
Representatives, received this days which,
tc^ether with the concurrence of the Senate to
the amendment on the amendment to the bill
above mentioned, was carried to the House by
the Secretary.

Representatives appointed for (he same pur-
pose, was considered, and disagreed to.

The question was taken, '^ Whether the
President of the United States shall headdress-
ed by the title of His Exctttmcy?^^ and it
passed in the negative.

On motion that a committee of three be ap-
pointed to consider and report under what
title it will be proper for the Senate to address
the President of the United States, Mr. Lbe,
Mr. Ellsworth, and Mr. Johnson, were
elected.

Friday, May 8.

The report of the committee appointed to
determine *' What style or title i( will be
proper to annex to the offices of President and
Vice President of the United States, if any
other than those given in the Constitution;" and
to confer with a committee of the House of

Saturday, May 9.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that they had ac-
ceptetl the report of the committee appointed
to consider what style or title it will be pioper
to annex to the offices of President and Vice
President of the United States, if any other than
those given in the Constitution.

Ordered, That Mr. Fxw, Mr. Maclat, and MLr.
Stboitg, be a eommittee to view the apiirtments ir»
the City Hall, and to confer with any committee
that may be appointed by the House of Representa*
tives for that purpose, and report how the same
shall be appropriated.

The committee appointed to consider under
what title it wiU be proper for the Senate to
address the President ot the Uniteil States^
reported; the consideration of which was post-
poned until Monday next.

Tho Secretary was charged with a message to
the House of Representatives, with the order
of Senate passed the 7ch instant, on the mode
adopted by the Senate in receiving communis
cations from that House.

Ordered, That Mr. Lbb, Mr. Ell»wobtr, and Mr^
JoHNso^r, be a committee to confer with any com-
mittee to be appointed by the House of Represent
tatires, on the difference of opinion now subsisting
between the two Houses, respecting the title of the
President of the United States; and, on motion for
reconsideration, the instruction to the committee
was agreed to» as follows:.

•• That they consider and report under what title
it will be proper for the President of the Unitect
States in future to be addressed, and confer thereon
with such committee as the House of Representa-
tives may appoint for that purpose.**

The Secretary carried to the House of Re-
presentatives the appointment of a conimittee,.
on the part of the Senate, to view the rooms \\%
the City Hall, and to confer upon their appro-
priation;

The rejection of the report of the committee
appointed to consider what style, &c. it will be
protper to annex to the offices of President and
of vice President;

And the appointment of a committee on the
part of the Senate to confer on a title under
which it will be proper to address the President
of the United States.

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Mat, 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Senatk.

Monday, May lU

Ordered, That the coiisidenition of the report of
the committee upon <* the title by which it will be
proper for the Senate to address the President," be
postponed until Tuesday next.

Ordered, That a committee, to consist of Mr.
EiAsweBTi, Mr. Cabholl, and Mr. Paw, be ap-
pointed, to consider and nsport a mode of carrying'
into execution the second parag^ph of the thira
section of the 6r8t article of the Constitution.

The committee appointed the 13th of April
to confer with a committee of the House of
Representatives, upon the future disposition of
the papers in the office of the late Secretary of
Congress, made a report, which was ordered to
He until a committee, appointed May 7, to con-
fer with a committee of the House ** on joint
rales to be established for the enrolment, &c.
of the acts of Congress," should report.

Tuesday, May 12.

The Clerk of the House of Representatives
delivered a mesnge, purporting that the House
bad concurred in the appointment of a com-
mittee on their part, consisting of Mr. White,
Mr. Scott, and Mr. Sturgbs, to confer with
the committee appointed on the part of the
Senate, May the 9th, on the appropriation of
the rooms in the City Hall;

Also, that the House had appointed a com-
mittee, consisting of Mr. Madison, Mr. Trum-
bull, Mr. Page, Mr. Benson, and Mr. Sher-
man, to confer with any committee that the
Senate shall appoint on the disagreeing votes of
the Senate and House of Representatives upon
the report of their joint committee, appointed
to consider what titles shall be given to the
President and to the Vice President of the
United States, if any other than those given
in the Constitution.

Ordered, That the committee appointed the 9th of
May, to connder "by what title it will be proper
for the Senate to address the President of the United
States, be instructed to confer with the committee
of the House of Representatives, agreeably to the
proposi^on in their message of this day.

A motion for the committee, appointed to address
the Prendent, to proceed, was postponed to Thurs-
day next. -

Wednesday, May 13.

The committee appointed the llthinst. on
the mode of carrying into execution the second
Pjaragraph of the third section of the fii-st ar-
tide of the Constitution, reported: and the
report was ordered to lie for consideration.

Ordered, That Mr. Laroboit, Mr. STRoira, and
Mr. Carboll, be a committee, to confer with any
committee that may be appointed on the part of the
House of Bepresentatives, and report what news-
papers the members of the Senate and House of
RepresenUtives shall be furnished with at the pub-
lie expense.

A committee, consisting of Mr. Johnson,
Mr. Ubad, Mr. Lanodon, Mr. Mork», Mr.

D ALTON, Mr. Elmer, Mr. Henrt. and Mr.
GuNN^ was appointed to report a bill, defining
the crimes and offences that shall be cogniza-
ble under the authority of the United States,
and their punishment.

Thursday, May 14.

The petition of Archibald M'Lean, to be
employed as a printer to the Senate and House
of Representatives^ was read, and ordered to
lie on the table.

The Secretary carried to the House of Re-
presentatives the order of Senate, passed yes-
teixiay, appointing a committee to report *^ what
newspapers the members of Congress sliall be
furnished with at the public expense."

The committee, appointed the 9th instant,
to determine '^ under what title it will be pro-
per for the Senate to address the President, " and
to confer with a committee of the House of
Representatives *' upon the disagreeing votes
of the Senate and House," informed the Senate
that they had conferred with a committee of
the House of Representatives, but could not
agree upon a report.

The committee, appointed the 9th instant,
** to consider and report under what title it
will be proper for the Senate to address the
President of the United States of America,"
reported :

That, in the opinion of the committee, it will be
proper thus to address the President: jffis Bighnee$,
the Prendent of the Uhiied States of America, and
Protector of their Libertiee,"

Which report was postponed; and the fol-
lowing resolve was agreed to, to wit:

From a decent respect for the opinion and prac-
tice of civilized nations, whether under monarchical
or republican forms of Government, whose cus-
tom is to annex titles of respectability to the office
of their Chief Magistrate; and that, on intercourse
with foreign nations, a due respect for the majesty
of the people of the United States may not be
hazarded by an appearance of singularity, the Sen-
ate have been induced to be of opinion, that it
would be proper to annex a respectable titje to the *
office of President of the United States? but, tlie
Senate, desirous of preserving harmony with the
House of Representatives, where the practice lately
observed in presenting an address to the President
was without the addition of titles, think it proper,
for the present, to act in conformity with the prac^
tice of that House: therefore,

Besolved, That the present address be *• 71) the
Prendent of the United States,'* without addition of
title.

A motion was made to strike out the pream-
ble as far as the words '*but the Senate:"
which passed in the negative:

And, on motion for the main question, it
passed in the affirmative.

The committee appointed to consider and re-
port a mode of carrying into effect the provi-
sion in the second clause of the third section
of the first article of the Constitution, reported?

Whei*e\ipon,

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings,

[May, 1789.

lUsohed, That the Senators be divided into three
elasses:

The first to consist of Mr. Langdon, Mr. Johnson,
Bir. Morris, Mr. Henry, Mr. Izai^ and Mr. Gunn;

The second of Mr. Wingate, Mr. Strong-, Mr.
Paterson, Mr, Bassett, Mr. Lee, Mr. Butler, and
Mr. Few;

And the third of Mr. Dalton, Mr. Ellsworth, Mr.
Elmer, Mr. Maclay, Mr. Read, Mr. Carroll, and Mr.
Grayson.

That three papers of an eqtSal size, numbered I,
2, and 3, be, by the Secretary, rolled up and put
into a box, and drawn by Mr. Langdon, Mr. Win-
gate, and Mr Dalton, in behalf of the respective
classes, in which each of them are placed; -and that
the classes shall vacate their seats in the Senate, ac-
cording to the order of numbers drawn for them,
beginning with No. 1.

And that, when Senators shall take their seats
from States that have not yet appointed Senators,
they shall be placed by lot in the foregoing classes,
but in such manner as shall keep the classes as
nearly equal as may be in numbers.

The committee appointed to confer with a
committee of the House of Representatives,
in preparing proper rules to be established for
(he enrolment, etc. of the acts of Congress,
reported; which report was ordered to he for
consideration.

Ordered^ That the committee appointed to draught
an answer to the President's speech, wait on him,
and request him to appoint the time when it will be
agreeable to receive the address of the Senate, at
his own house.

Friday, May 15.

The committee appointed to draught an an-
swer to the President's speech further reported;
whereupon it was

Jgreed, That the Senate should wait on the Presi-
dent at his own house on Monday next, at a quarter
after 1 1 o'clock, and that the Vice President then
present the address of the Senate, as ag^ed to on
tlie 7th instant.

The Senate proceeded to determine the
classes, agreeably to the resolve of yesterday,
on llic mode of carrying into effect the provi-
sion of the second clause of the third section of
the first article of the Constitution; and the
numbers being drawn, the classes were de-
termined as foTlovvs: .

Lot No. 1, drawn by Mr. Dalton contained
Mr. balton, Mr. Ellsworth, Mr. Elmer, Mr.
Maclay, Mr; Read, Mr. Carroll, and Mr.
Grayson; whose seats shall, accordingly, be
vacated in the Senate at the expiration of the
second year.

Lot No. 2, drawn by Mr. Wingate, contain-
ed Mr. Wingate, Mr. Strong, Mr. Paterson,
Mr. Basset, Mr. Lee, Mr. Butler, and Mr.
Few; whose seats shall, accordingly, be, va-
cated in the Senate at the expiration of the
fourth vear.

Lot No. 3, drawn by Mr. Ijangdon, contain-
ed Mr. Langdon, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Morris,
Mr. Henry, Mr. ly.iird, and Mr, Uunn; whose

seats shall, accordingly, be vacated in the Sen-
ate at the expiration ot the sixth year.

Saturday, May 16.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House
had concurred in the apmiintment of a com-
mittee, consisting of Mr. Sylvester, Mr. Wyn-
koop, and Mr. Smith of South Carolina, to
confer with a committee appointed on the part
of the Senate the 13th instant, and to report
what newspapers the members of Congress
shall be furnished with at the public expense:
and that it was an instruction to the said com-
mittee, on the part of the House, to receive
proposals for printing the acts and other pro-
ceedings of Congress.

The question being taken, *' Whether the
Senate will give a similar insti-uctiou to the
committee on their part?" it passed in the af-
firmative. And the Secretary informed the
House of Representatives of the concurrence.

Ordered^ That the petitions from sundry printers,
presented to the Senate, be referred to the commit-
tee of the Senate appointed the 13th inst

The committee appointed the 14th of April
to consider the mode of l^eepine and publishing
the journals^ &c, reported; and the report was
ordered to lie on the table.

Monday, May 18.

Agreeably to the order of the 15th instant, the
Senate waited on the President of the United
States at his own house, when the Vice Presi*
dent, in their name, delivered to the President
the^ address agreed to on the 7th inst. To
which the President of the United States was
pleased to make the following reply:

Gbntlbxsr^: I thank you for your addressi in
which the most affectionate sentiments are expressed
in the most obliging terms. The coincidence of
circumstances wmch led to this auspicious crisis, the
confidence reposed in me by my fellow* citizens, and
the assistance I may expect from counsels which
will be dictated by an enlarged and liberal policy,
seem to presage a more pi*osperous issue to my ad-
ministration than a diffidence of my abilities had
taught me to anticipate. I now feel myself inex-
pressibly happy in a belief that Heaven, which hat
done so much for our infant nation, will not with-
draw its providential influence before our political
felicity shall have been completed, and in a convic-
tion that the Senate will at all times co-operate in
every measure which may tend to promote the
welfare of this confederated republic. Thus sup-
ported by a firm trust in the ^at Arbiter of the
universe, aided by the collective wisdom of the
Union, and imploring the divine benediction on our
joint exertions in the service of our country, I
readily engage with you in the arduous but pleaang
task of attempting to make a nation happy.

G, WASHINGTON.^

The Clerk of the House of Representatives
brought to the Senate a bill for laying a doty
on goodf^, wares, and merchandises, imported

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

May, 1789.]

Proceeding's,

[Senaiie.

into the United States; which he informed the
Senate the House had passed, and to which they
desired the concurrence of the Senate.

The bill above mentioned was read a first
time, and Tharsday next was assigned for the
second reading.

Otderedt That Hr. Lsx be a committee, on the
put of the Senate, to join any committee appointed
Ibr that purpose on the part of the House of Re-
presentatires, to lay before the President of the
United States, for his approbation, a bill to regulate
the time and manner ot administering certain oaths;
alter it shall be enrolled, examined by the said com-
mittee, and ngned by the Speaker of the House of
BepresentatiTes and by the Vice Fremdent.

Tuesday, May 19.

The Secretarr carried to the House of Re-
presentatives the resolve of the Senate, pass-
ed the I8ih instant, appointing a committee on
their part, to Isy before the President a bill to
regafate the time and manner of administering
certain oaths; after it shall be enrolled, &c.

The commitiee to whom was referrefi the
motion for printing the journals of the Senate,
and fomishing each member with a copy thereof;
and also, to report upon the mode of keeping
the jottrnals, and who were instructed to con-
sider whether the minutes be amended, so as
to record only the acts of the Senate on the
JQumal, reported as follows:

*' That one hundred and twenty copies of the
journals of the legislative proceedinn only be
printed once a months commencing the first pub-
Ecation on the first day of June next, and that each
ntember be furnished with a copy; that the proceed-
ings of the Senate, when they shall act in their ex-
ecutiTe capacity, shall be entered and kept in
separate and dbtinct books.

** That every vote of the Senate shall be entered
on the journals, and that a brief statement of the
eontents of each petition, memorial, or paper, pre-
sented to the Senate, be also inserted on the jour-
nals.

**Tbai the journals, previous to each publication,
be revised by a committee to be apt>ointed from
time to time for that purpose;" which report was
MCfiepted.

The committee appointed to confer with a
coDimittee of the House of Representatives,
and report what newspapers the members of
Congress shall be furnished with at the public
eipense, reported in part) which report was
ordered to lie on the table.

Ordered, That Mr. PATiasosr, Mr. Cabboll, and
Mr. WivoATK, be a committee to revise the journal,
previouB to its publication.

Wednesday, May 30.

The petition of Thomas Allen, to supply the
stationery that majr be wanted for the use of
Congress, was read, and referred to the coro-
nittee on petitioDE of a similar nature.

Thursday, May SI.

William Graysok, from Virginia, appeared
and took his seat.

Ruolvedt That all bills on a second reading shall
be considered by the Senate in the same manner as
if the Senate were in a committee of the whole,
before they shall be taken up and proceeded on by
the Senate, agreeably to the standing rules, unless
otherwise ordered.

Mr. Grayson was added to the committee
appointed the 13th of May, '^ to define the
cnines and offences that shall be cognizable
under the authoritv of the United States, and
their punishment.''

Friday May 3S.

A message from the House of Representa'
tives informed the Senate that they had ap-
pointed Messrs Partridge and Floyd, a com-
mittee on their part, to lay before the President,
after it shall have passed the formalities pre-
scribed in the resolve of the 18th of Majr, the
bill to regulate the time and manner of ad-
ministering certain oaths.

The committee appointed to examine the
afore-mentioned bill, reported, that they had
performed the service; whereupon, the bill was
signed by the Vice President, and was, by the
committee thereunto appointed, laid before
the President of the United States for his appro-
bation.

Monday, May 25.

The^ Senate proceeded to consider the bill
for laying a dutv on goods, wares, and merchan-
dises imported into the United States; and,
after progress, adjourned.

The Senate to-day^ for the first time, entered
upon executive business* having received from
the President of the United States a commu-
nication covering a report from the Secretary of
War, on the negotiations of the Governor of
the Western Territory with certain northern
and northwestern Indians, and the treaties
made in consequence thereof at Fort Harmar*
on the 9th of January, 1789, which was read, as
follows, and ordered to lie on the table.

That the several treaties of peace which have been
made with the northern tribes of Indians, and thdse
northwest of the Ohio, since the conclusion of the
late war with Great Britain, are as follows, to wit:

1st. The treaty at Fort Stanwix, on the 22d day
of October, 1784, between Oliver Wolcott, Richard
Butler, and Arthur Lee, Commissioners Plenipoten-
tiary from the United States, on the one part, and
the aachems and warriors of the Six Nations on the
other.

2d. The treaty entered into by the said Commis-
sioners Plenipotentisry and the sachems and war-
riors of the Wyandot, Delaware, Chippawa, and
Ottawa nations of Indians, at Fort Mcintosh, the 2l8t
day of January, 1785.

3d. The treaty at the mouth of the Great
Miami, the 31st day of Januar}% 1786, between com-
missioners from the United States, and the chiefii
and warriors of the Shawanee nation.

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings.

[May, 1789.

That the treaties of Fort Stanwix and Fort Mcin-
tosh were entered on the journals of the United
States, in Confess assembled, June 3&f 1785; and
the treaty of the Miami on the 17th day of April,
1786.

That it may be proper to observe, that the Indians
are greatly tenacious of tlieir lands, and generally
do not relinquish their rig]it, excepting on the
principle of a specific consideration expressly given
for the purchase of the same.

That the practice of the late English colonies and
Government, in purchasing the Indian claims, has
firmly established the liabit in this respect, so that
it cannot be violated but with difficulty, and an ex-
pense greatly exceeding the value of the object.

That the treaties of Fort Stanwix and of Fort
Mcintosh do not state that the limits therein defined
are by virtue of a purchase from the Indians.

Thatihe said treaties hare been opposed and com-
pluned of, \dU appear by the representation to
Congress accompanying this report, marked No. I .

That, in consequence of the said representation.
Congress, on the Slst day of July, 1787, passed the
following resolve:

"Resolved, That the Superintendent of Indian Af-
fairs for the Northern Department inform the Five
Nations, the Hurons, and other Indian nations, who
joined in the representation made to Congress, dated
the 18th day of December, 1786, that Congress, on
the 18th of the present month, July, 1787, received
their said representation, and have taken it into their
serious consideration, and in due time will send them
an answer."

That, on the 6th of October following, Congress
resolved :

*' That a general treaty be held with the tribes of
Indians within the limits of the United States, in-
habiting the country northwest of the Ohio, and
about Lake Brie, as soon after the 1st of April-
next as conveniently may be, and at such place,
and at such particular time, as the Governor of the
Western Territory shall appoint, for the purpose of
knowing the causes of uneasiness among the said
tribes, and heai'ing their complaints, of regelating
trade, and amicably settling all affairs concerning
lands and boundaries between them and the United
States.

" That the Governor of the Western Territory
hold the said treaty, agreeably to such instructions
as shall be g^ven him for that purpose."

That, on the 12th of October, 1787, Cong^ress re-
solved:

««That twenty thousand dollars be, and hereby
are, appropriated for the purpose of Indian treaties,
whenever the same shall hereafter be judged neces-
sary by a majority of the United States in Cong^ress
assembled; and that the resolutions for holding a
general treaty with the Indians, passed the 6th day
of the present month, be, and they are hereby re-
pealed."

That, on the 22d of October, 1787, Congress re-
solved:

••That the Governor of the Western Territory
be, and he is hereby empowered, to hold a general
treaty with the Indian tribes the ensuing spring, if
in his judgment the public good requires it, and that
he be authorized to draw tor such sums of money,
appropriated by the resolve of Congress of the 12th

instant, as may be necessary to effect this object,
not exceeding the sum of fourteen thousand dol-
lars."

That, on the 2d of July, 1788, Cong^ss resolved:

•• That the sum of twenty thousand dollars, in
addition to the fourteen thousand dollars already ap-
propriated, be appropriated for defraying the ex-
penses of the treaties which hare been oidered, or
which may be ordered to be held in the present
year, with the several Indian tribes in the northern
department, and for extinguishing the Indian claims;
the whole of the said twenty thousand dollars, to-
gether with six thousand dollars of the said fourteen
thousand dollars, to be applied solely to the pur-
pose of extinguishing Indian claims to the lands
they have already ceded to the United States, by
obtaining regular conveyances for the same, and for
extending* a purchase beyond the limits hitherto fixed
by treaty : but that no part of the said sums be ap-
plied for any purpose other than those above men-
tioned,"

That the instructions to the Governor of the
Western Territory, marked No. 2, will further show
the sense of Cong^ss on this subject.

That the treaties of Fort Harmar, on the 9th of
January, 1789, with the sachems and warriors of
the Six Nations, the Mohawks excepted, and witli
the sachems bM warriors of the Wyandot, Dda-
ware, Ottawa, Chippawa, Fattiwatima, and Sac
nations, inhabiting part of the country northwest of
the Ohio, appear to have been negotiated by the
Governor of the Western Territory, so as to unite
the interests of the United States with the justice
due the said Indian nations.

That the reservation, in the treaty with the Six Na-
tions, of six miles square round the fort at Oswegfo,
is within the territory of tlie State of New York,
and ought to be so explained as to render it con-
formable to the Constitution of the United States.
' That, if this explanation should be made, and
the Senate of the United States should concur in
their approbation of the said treaties, it might be
proper that the same should be ratified and publish-
ed, with a proclamation enjoining an observance
thereof.

All which is humbly submitted to the President
of the United States.

H. KNOX.

War Otpice, May 23, 1789.

Tuesday, May 26.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that they hail ap-
pointed a committee, con8i8(;ing of Messrs. Pae-
TRiDGB, Floyd, and Thatcher, to confer with
any committee which may be appointed by
the Senate, on tlie proper method of receiv-
ing into either House bills or messages from
the President of the United States. ^

Said message was considered by the Senate,
and Messrs. Lee and Izaro were appointed a
committee on their part.

Wednesday, May 97.

The Secretary went to the House of Repre-
sentatives with a message, parportinf the con-
currence, on the part of the Senate, in the ap-

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Junk, 1789.}

Proceedings*

[Skkatb.

pointraent of a committee upon the mode of re-
ceivii^ messages from the President of the
Unitea Statesj^ agreeably to the proposition of
the House of Representatives raaue yesterday.
Adjoarned to U o'clock to-morrow morning,

Thursday, May 28.

The Senate proceeded in the consideration of
the bill for lading a duty on goods, wares, and
merdiandiaes imported into the United States;
and^ after debate, adjourned.

Friday, May 29.

Proceeded to the consideration of the bill
for laying a duty on goods, wares, and merchan-
di«e«i imported into the United States.

The committee, appoint^ the 13th instant,
to confer with the committee of the House of
RepresentatiYes, and report ^^ what newspapers
the members of Congress shall be furnished with
at the public eipense*" further repiM-ted; which
report was ordered to lie on the table,

A message ^om the House of Representatives
broM^fct to the Senate an engrossed bill, impos-
ing duties oh tonnage;

A resolYe of the House of Representatives of
die 88th, providing the members of the Senate
and House of Representatives each with a set
of the juonials of the late Congress; ,

A resolve of the 28th, on the report of a joint

committee appointed ^^to confer on the mode

of fumUdiifMe the members of the Senate and

House of Representatives with newspapers,

journals," &c.;

AIm, a resolve of this day, on the report of a
joint committee appointed ** to confer upon the
mode of receiving, m the Senate and House of
Representatives, bills, &c. from the President of
the United States,'* desiring the concurrence of
the Senate thereta

The House Resolvtd^ That until the public
offices are established, and the respective offi-
cers are appointed, any returns of bills and
resolutions, or other communications from the
President, may be received by either House,
under cover, directed to the President of the
Benale, or Speaker of the House of Repre-
sentad ves, (as the case may be, ) and transmit-
ted bf §ach pertmn as the President may think
proper.

The Senate concurred.

Monday, June 1.

The Secretary carried to the House of Re-
presentatives the concurrence of the Senate
upon a resolve of the House of the 29th of May,
on the DMide of receiving communications from
the President of the United States*
, A message from the House of Representa-
tives, by Mr. fieckley, their Clerk.

Mr. PaBBurxirr: I am directed to inform the
Senate that the President has affixed his sijpiature to
a bill to regulate the time and manner of adminis*
tcrinp certain oaths, and baa returned it to the House
of Bcpreflenlatives, from whence it originated.
5

The Senate proceeded in the consideration
of the bill for. laying a duty on goods, wares,
and merchandises importeu into the United
States; and, after debate, adjourned.

Tuesday, June 3.

Tlie resolve of the House of Representatives
of the 28th ult. was considered as follows:

The House proceeded to consider the two
reports, one made the 19th instant, the other
the 26th instant, by the committee appointed to
confer with a committee of the Senate, to con-
sider and report what newspapers (he members
of Congress shall be furnishea with at the pub-
lic expense, and to receive proposals for print-
ing the acts and other proceedings of Congress:
and the first report, in the words following:

That, in their opinion* public economy requires
that the expense heretofore incurred by the public,
of supplying every member of Congress with all
the newspapers printed at the seat of Congress,
should be retrenched in fnture; but, as your com-
mittee consider the publication of newspapers to be
highly beneficial in disseminating useful knowledge
throughout the United States, and deserving of pub-
lic encouragement, they recommend that each
member of Congress be supplied, at the public ex*
pensc, with one paper, leaving the choice of the
same to each member; and that it be the du^ of the
Secretary of the Senate, and Clerk of the House of
Representatives, to g^ve the necessary directions to
the different printers, co furnish each member with
such paper as he shall choose."

Being again read and debated,

Hesohxdf That this House doth disagree to the said
report

The other report being again read, and
amended to read as follows:

** That it would be proper that it should be left
to the Secretary of the Senate and Clerk of the
House of Representatives, to contract with such
person as shall engaee to execute the printing and
binding business on the most reasonable terms, the
paper being furnished by the said Secretary and
Clerk, to such person, at the public expense; that
such person as they shall contract with shall be
obliged to rend«;r a state of his accounts quarterly;
and that six hundred copies of the acts of Congress
and seven hundred copies of the journals, be printed
and distributed to the executive and judicial, and
heads of departments of the Government of the
United States, and the executive, legislative, and
judicial of the several States."

Betohedt That this house doth agree to the 8ai4
report.

And, on the question of concurrence on the
first report, it was postponed.

The other report was read, and concurred
with an amendment, viz: after the words *^ and
distributed to the," insert ^* members of tl^^
legislative, to the.?

The Senate proceeded in the consideration of
the bill for laying a dutj on goodf, wares, and
merchandises imported into th^ United States,

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

SSNATC.]

Proceeding's.

June, 1789*

Wednesday, June 3.

Proceeded in the consideration of the bill
for laying a duty on goods, wares, and mer-
chancfides imported into the United States; and
further postponed the second reading until
to-morrow.

The Secretary informed the House of Repre-
sentatives of the concurrence of the Senate, in
a resolve of the 38th of May, upon the mode
of printing the acts and journals of Congress,
as agreed to yesterday; and requested the
House of Representatives to send to the
Senate *^ An act to regulate the time and man-
ner of administering certain oaths.*^
^ A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought to the Senate the act last men-
tioned, and informed the Senate of the concur-
rence of the House of Representativesin their
amendment on a resolve of the 38th May, on
the mode of printing the acts and journals of
Congress.

Ordered^ That Mr. Lanodon administer the
oath to the Vice President; which was done
accordingly.

And the Vice President administered the
oath, according to law, to the following mem-
bers: to Messrs. Lanodon, Winoate, Strong,
Dalton, Johnson, Ellsworth, Paterson,
Maolat, Morris, Rbad« Bassett, Carroll,
Henry, Lee, Grayson, Izard, Few, Gunn.

The same oath was, by the. Vice President,
administered to the Secretary, together with
the oath of office.

Ordered^ That Messrs. Morris, Carroll,
Lanodon, Read, and Lee, be a committee to
consider and report the mode of communicat-
ing the acts of Congress to the several States
ID the Union, and the number necessary for
that purpose.

Thursday, June 4.

On the report of the committee, appointed the
3d June, to consider the mode of communicat-
ing the acts of Congress to the several States
in the Union,

Resohedj That, in ten days after the passing of
every act of Congress, during the present session,
or until some other regulation shall be adopted,
twenty-two printed copies thereof, signed by the
Secretary of the Senate and Clerk of the House of
Kepresentatives, and certi6ed by them to be true
copies of the original act, be lodged with the Presi-
dent of th^ United States; and that he be requested
to cause to be transmitted two of the said copies, so
attested as aforesaid, to each of the supreme £xecu-
tives in the several States.

The Secretary carried the aforesaid resolve
to the House of Representatives for their con-
currence.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill for laying a duty on goods, wares,
and merchandises imported into the United
States:

Ana the further consideration of the bill was
postponed until to-morrow.

Friday, June 5.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives, by Mr. Beckley, their Clerk, who in-
formed the Senate of the concurrence of the
House on the resolution of the 4th June, upon
the mode of communicating the acts of Con-
gress to the Executives of the several States in
the Union.

According to the order of the day, the Senate

fn-oceeded in the second reading of the bill for
ayin§ a duty on goods, wares, and merchan-
dises imported into the United States.

Monday, June 8.

PiERCB BfTTLER, from South Carolina, ap*-
peared and took his seat.

The Vice President administered the oath to
Mr. Butler.

The Senate concurred with the resolution of
the House of Representatives, that every mem-
ber of the present Congress, who is not yet
furnished with a copy of the journals of th€ late
Congress, shall, on application t» the Keeper
of the Records of the late Congress, be entitled
to receive a complete set of such journals.

The Senate proceeded in the second reading
of the bill for la}ing a duty on goods, wares,
and merchandises imported into the United
States, and agreed that Mr. ELurwoirriu Mr..
Morris, Mr. Lee, Mr. Butler, and Mr. Dal-
ton, be a committee to consider and report the
expediency of adding a clause prohibiting the
importation of goods from China, or India, in
ships or vessels other than those belonging Uh
the citizens of the United States.

Tuesday, June 9.

Sundry petitions were presented^

The bill imposing duties on tonnage was read

a first time, and Tuesday next was assigned

for the second reading.
The Senate proceeded in the second reading

of the bill for laying a duty on goods, wares.

and merchandises imported into the United

States; and Wednesday next was assignee! for

the third reading of the bill.

Wednesday, June 10.
Agreeably to the order of the day, proceeded
to a thiixl reading of the bill for laying a duty
on goods, wares, and merchandises imported
into the United States.

Thursday, June 11.

Proceeded in the third reading of the bill
for laying a duty on gomls, wares, and mer-
chandises imported into the United States.

And the question being taken upon the bill,
it was concurred in with sundry amendments.

The Senate entered on executive business,
and received from the President of the United
States a communication in relation to the
functions and prerogatives of consuls, vice
consuls, &C, which was ordered to lie for
consideration.

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS-

Juiix, 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Sbhate.

FaiDAT, June IS.

Mr. LsB, in behalf of the committee thereto
appointed, teported a bill to establish the ju-
dicial courts of the United States.

The Senate entered on executive business.
Tliejr referred the President's message of the
35th olL to a committee, consisting of Messrs.
Few, Rkad, and Henry.

The consideration of the message of the 11th
instant was postponed*

Monday, June 15.

Proceeded to the second reading of a bill
imposing duties on tonnage; and, after debate,
adjoarned.

Tuesday, June 16.

Proceeded in the second reading of the bill
imposing duties on tonnage.

The Senate entered on executive business.
A communication from the President inform-
ed them that Mr. Jefferson wished to return
bome, and he proposed William Short, Esi].
to tMke his piace as minister to France. Laid
on the table.

WcDNSsDAY, June 17.

Agreeablj to the order of the day, proceeded
to the third reading of the bill imposing duties
on tonnage, and concurred in the same, with
«ttndi7 amendments.

Ordered, That a committee, to consist of
Measrs. Butler, Morris, Langdon, Dalton,
and Leb, be appointed to arrange and bring
forward a system for the regulation of the ti'ade
and intercourse between the United States and
the territory of other Powers in North America
and the West Indies, so as to place the same
on a more beneficial and permanent footing.

The committee, appointed May the 9ih, to
view Che rooms in the City Hall, and to confer
with a committee of the House of Representa-
tives appointed for that purpose, reported.

Ordered, 'lliat the report lie for consideration.

The Senate went into executive business.
They examined into the fitness of Mr. Short
to supply the place of Mr. Jefferson, but came
io 00 conclusion.

Thursday, June 18.

The Senate went into executive business,
and confirmed the appointment of Mr. Short
to take charge of our affairs at the court* of
France, during the absence of the minister.

Friday, June 19.

llie committee, appointed May 9th, to view
the rooms in the City Hall, and to concur with a
committee of the House of Representatives ap-
pointed for that purpose, reported in part:

Thai the two reotna oa the fint floor, in the south-
vest angle of the said haU, are not necessary for the
accomnodatioo of Congresai and that the mayor of
the aty he nf^tifie^ thereof, that the aaid rooms may

be occupied by such persons as the corporation may
employ to take charge of the building*

Read and accepted, and sent to the House «f
Representatives for concurrence.

Monday, June 33.

Proceeded to the second reading of the bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States; and, after progress, adjourned.

Tuesday, June 33.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to esta-
blish the judicial courts of the United States;
and, after progi-ess, adjourned.

Wednesday, June 34.

Proceeded in consideration of the bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought to the Senate the concurrence
of the House upon the report of a committee,
appointed May the 9th, to view the rooms in the
City Hall; a bill for establishing an Executive
Department, to be denominated the Depart-
ment of Foreign Affairs, which \aA passea the
House of Representatives, and to which the
concurrence of the Senate was desired.

Thursday, June 35.

Proceeded to consider a message from the
House of Representatives on the amendments
proposed by the Senate to a bill for layinjg a
duty on goods, wares, and merchandises im-
ported into the United States; and agreed to
a part of the proposed amendments, and disa-
greed to others. '

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the bill for establishing an Executive De-
partment, to be denominated the Department
of Foreign Affairs; which was read the first
time, and ordered to lie for consideration.

Proceeded in the second reading of a bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States; and, after debate, adjourned.

Friday, June 26.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States.

Saturday, June 37.

Mr. Morris, in belialf of the committee ap-
pointed to confer with a committee of the Hoaae
of Representatives upon the amendments pro-
posed to a bill for lading a duty on goods, wares.
and merchandises imported into the United
States, and upon a bill imposing duties on ton-
nage, reported upon the respective bills; and
the reports were ordered to lie for consider-
ation.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to esta-
blish the judicial courts of the United Stales.

GALES & BEATON'S 'HISTORY

dKNATK.]

Proceedings.

[July, 1789.

MoNDAT, Jane 99.

Resumed the cunsideration of the bill to es-
tablish the judicial courts of the United States.

The bill for laying a duty on goods, wares,
and merchandises imported into the United
States, was carried to the House of Represen-
tatives, with the amendments as agreed to.

TussDAY, June 30.
The Senate resumed the consideration of the
bill to establish the judicial courtsof the United
States; and, after debate, adjqurned.

Wednesday, July 1.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States.

Thursday, July 3.

^ The Senate resumed the consideration of the
bill to establish the judicial courts of the United
States.

Friday, July 3.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to es-
tablish the judicial courtsof the United States;
and, after debate, adjourned.

Monday, July 6.

Read the second time the bill to establish
the judicial courts of the United States, and
assjened to-morrow for the third reading.

The bill to establish the Treasury Depart-
ment was read a first time, and Monday next
was assigned for a second reading.

The second reading of a bill m establishing
an Executive Department, to be denominated
the Department of Foreign Affairs, was defer-
red to Thursday next.

A bill to establish an Executive Department,
to be denominated the Department of War,
was read a first time, and Friday next was as-
signed for a second reading.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the President of
the United States had affixed his signature to a
bill for laying a duty on goods, wares, and
merchandises imported into the United States,
and had returned it to the House of Represen-
tives; and that the House had aM>ointed a com-
mittee on their part, to be joinecf by a commit-
tee on the part of the Senate, for the purpose of
examining an enrolled bill imposing duties on
tonnage, and to lay the same before the Presi-
dent of the United States for his approba-
tion. He also communicated to the Senate a
resolve of the House of Representatives, provid-
ing that there be prefixed to the publication
of the acts of the present session of Congress a
correct copy of the constitution of the United
States.

The resolve of the House of Representatives,
providing that a copy of the constitution of the
United States be prefixed to the publication of

the acts of the present session of Congresst was
read; whereupon,

Beaohedt That the Senate do concur therewith.

Tuesday, July 7.

According to the order of the day, proceeded
to a third reading of the bill to establish the ju*
dicial courts of tne United States.'

Wednesday, July 8.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the
bill to establish the judicial courts of the United

States.

Thursday, July 9.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the
bill to establish the judicial courts of the United
States.

Friday, July 10.

The bill to establish the judicial courts of th<
United States underwent further discussion.

Saturday, July U.

Resumed the consideration of the bill to esta*
blish the judicial courts of the United States^
which was further discussed.

Monday, July 13.

Mr. BtJTLER, in behalf of the committee ap-
pointed the 17th of June, to bring forward a
system for the regulation of the trade and in-
tercourse between the United States and the
territory of other Powers in North America
and the West indies, so far as to place the
same upon a more beneficial and permanent
footing, reported; and the report was ordered
to lie for consideration.

Resumed the third reading of *^a bill to es-
tablish the judicial courts of the United States,^
and which was recommitted.

Tuesday, July 14,

Proceeded to the second reading of a bill
for establishing an Executive Department, to be
denominated the Department of Foreign Af-
fairsf and, after debate, adjourned.

Wednesday, July 15.

A message from the House of Rejpresenta-
tives informed the Senate that they had pass-
ed a bill to regulate the collection of the du-
ties imposed by law on the tonnage of ships or
vessels, and on goods, wares, and merchandiseft
imported into the United States; to which they
requested the concurrence of the Senate.

The above bill was read a first time, and
Friday next was assigned for a second read-

Resumed the consideration of the bill for
establishing an Executive Department, to be
denominated the Department of Foreign Af-
fairs.

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

July, 1789. ]

Proceedings.

[Sbnatk.

Tbursdat, Jaly 16.

Resumed the consideration of the bill for
establishing an Executive Department, to be
denominated the Department of Foreign Af-
fairs.

Friday, Juljr 17.

Resumed the consideration of the Mil for
establishing an Executive Department, to be
denominated the Department of Foreign Af-
fairs: and agreed, line Ist, to expunge the
words '• Congress of the United States," and
insert, ** Senate and House of Representatives
of the United States of America, in Congress
assembled;" and assigned to-morrow for its
third reading.

On motion, that, on the final question upon
a bill or resolve, any member shall have a right
to enter his protest or dissent on the Journal,
with reasons in support of such dissent, pro-
vided the same be onered within two days af-
ter the determination on slich final question:

Passed in the negative.

The engrossed bill to establish the judicial
courts o( the United States was read: and,
upon the question, *' Shall the bill passr"the
yeas and nays being required by one-fifth of the
Senators present, the determination was as
follows:

]%«.— Messra. Bassett, CairoU, Dalton, Ells-
worth, Elmer, Few, Guno, Henr>s Johnson, Izard,
Morris, Paterson, Read, and Strong.

iVbg^.-— MeMrs. Butler, Grayson, Langdon, Lee,
llacJay, and Wingate.

So the 'bill passed; and the Secretary was
directed to carrv the same to the House of
Representatives for concurrence,

Saturday, July 18.

Agreeably to the order of the day, proceeded
to a third reading of the bill for establishing an
Executive Department, to be denominated the
Department of Foreign Affairs, which was
amended, and passed.

Assigned Monday next for the second read-
ing of the bill to regulate the collection of the
duties imposed by law on the tonnage of ships
or vessels, and on g0(xls, wares, and merchan-
dises imported into the United States.

Monday, July 30.

The Secretary carried to the House of Re-
presentatives, for their concurrence, a bill to
establish the judicial courts of the United
States; and,

A bill for establishing an Executive Depart-
ment, to be denominated the Department of
Foreign Affairs; concurred in by the Senate,
with amendments.

Agreeably to the order of the day, proceeded
to the second reading of the bill to regulate the
collection of the duties imposed by law on the
tonnage of ships or vessels, and on goods, wares.
and merchandises imported into the United
Sutes;

And, after debate, it was committed to
Messrs. Morris, Lanod on, Carroll, Dalton»
and Lee, to repbil sucK additions and altera-
tions as they may judge requisite.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that they had passed
a bill for the establishment and support of light-
houses, beacons, and buoys; and Umt thev have
concurred in the amendments proposed oy the
Senate to a bill for establishing an Executive
Department, to be denominated the Depart-
ment of Foreign Affairs.

Tuesday, July 81.

Resumed the second reading of a bill to regu-
late the collection of the duties imposed by
law on the tonnage of ships or vessels, and on
goods, wares, and merchandises imported into
the United States; and assigned to-morrow for
third reading.

^ A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought op a bill to provide for the gov-
ernment of the territory northwest of the
river Ohio.

The bill to provide for the government of
the territory northwest of the river Ohio was
read a first time, and Wednesday was assigned
for a second reading.

The bill* for the establishment and support
of light -houses, beacons, and buoys was read
a first time, and to-morrow was assigned for a
second reading.

The bill to establish an Executive Depart-
ment, to be denominated the Department of
War, was read a second time, and the further
consideration of it was postponed until to-mor-
row.

The bill to establish the Treasury Depart-
ment was read a second time, and ordered to
lie for consideration.

The Senate entered on executive business,
and

Ordered^ That the Secretary of Foreign Af-
fairs attend the Senate to-morrow, and bring
with him such papers as are requisite to give
full information relative to the consular con-
vention between France and the United States.

Wednesday, July 83.

The Senate were to-day mostly enga£;ed in
executive business. The Secretary of Foreign
Affairs attended, agreeably to order, and made
the necessary explanations; and the following
resolution was entered into:

Whereas, a convention referred this day to the
Senate bears reference to a convention pending
between the Most Christian King and the United
States, previous to the adoption of our present Con-
stitution, «

Eeaohed, That the Secretary of Foreign Affairs,
under the former Cong^ss be requested to peruse
the said convention, smd to give his opinion how
fiir he conceives the faith of the United States to
be engag^, either by former agreed stipulations,
or negotiations enterexl into by our Minister at the

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Sbnate.]

Proceeding's.

[July, 1789.

court of Versailles, to ratify, in its present sense
or form, the convention now referred to the Senate.

Thursday, July 23.

The bill for the establishment and support of
light-houses, beacons, and buoys, was i*ead a
second time,' and committed to Messrs. Mor-
ris, Lanodon, and Dalton.

On the Question, whether the clauses in the
bill to regulate the collection of the duties im-
posed by law on the tonnage of ships or vessels,
and on goods, wares, and merchandises im-
ported into the United States, providing,*^ that,
oaths shall be administered to the master, or
other persons having the charge or command of
any ship or vessel,''^ shall be expunged, and the
words, *'and the owner's and master's decla-
ration, with penalties for false entry," be sub-
stituted? Passed in the negative.

Friday, July 24.

The committee appointed on the bill for the
establishment and support of light-houses, bea-
cons, and buoys, reported amendments, which
were i^ad and orilered to be printed.

The committees requested a recess, to give
opportunity to perfect their reports.

Saturday, July 25.

RuFus Kino, from New York, appeared and
took his seat

The second reading; of the bill to provide
for the government ot the territory northwest
of the river Ohio was further postponed to
Monday next.

Monday, July 27.

PiULip Schuyler, from New York, appear-
ed, and took his seat.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that they had ptissed
a bill for settling the accounts between the Unit-
ed States and individual Statei<, which was
sent for their concurrence; and informed the
Senate that the President of the United States
had aflixed his signature to a bill for the es-
tablishment of an Executive Department, to
be denominated the Department of Foreign
Afi'dirs, and had i^turned the same to the
House of Representatives.

The first- mentioned bill was read a first
time, and July the 29th was assigned for a
5iecond reading.

Proceeded to the tliiul reading of a bill to
regulate the colleclion of the duties imposed by
law on the tonnage of ships or vessels, and on
goods, wares, and merchandises imported into
the United States; and

Rewlved, I'hal the Senate do concur thci-ein, with
.sundry amendments.

The Senate entered on executive business.
'I'lie Secretary of Foreign Affairs reported his
<»pinion upon (he consular convention between
Krauce ami the United States a J* follows:

'' The Secretary of the United Stafes for the
Department of Foreign Affairs, under the for-
mer Congress, in pursuance of the resolution
of the 22d of July, 1789, imports:

*^ That be has compared the two conventions of
1784 and 1788.

" That the copies of them, received from Mr.
Jefferson, and now before the Senate, are so printed,
and their variations so clearly marked, as that he
cannot contrast them in a manner better calculated
for an easy and accurate comparison.

" That, in his opinion, there exist, in the con-
vention of 1788, no variations from the original
scheme sent to Doctor Franklin in 1782, nor from
the convention of 1784, but such as render it less
ineligible tlian cither of the other two.

^< That, although he apprehends that this con-
vention will prove more inconvenient than beneficial
to the United States, yet he thinks that the circum-
stances under which it was formed render its being'
ratified by them indispensable.

<*The circumstances alluded to are these:

«« The original scheme of 1782, however excep-
tionable, was framed and agreed to by Cong^ss.

«• The convention of 1784 was modelled by that
scheme, but in certain instances deviated from it;
but both of them were to be perpetual in their du-
ration.

** On account of those deviations. Congress refused
to ratify it, but promised to ratify one corresponding
with the scheme, provided its duimtion was limited
to eight or ten years; but they afterwards extend-
ed it to twelve.

'* By an instruction to Mr. Jefferson of 3d Octo-
ber, 1786, he was, among other things, directed to
propose to the King, < I'hat the said convention be
so amended as perfectly to correspond with the
scheme, in every part, where a deviation from the
same is not permitted by the said act (of 1782) «
and, further, that he represent to His Majesty, the
desire of Congress to make the said convention pro«
bationary, by adding a clause for limiting its dura-
tion to eight or ten years; that he assure His Mbi-
jesty of the determination of Congress to observe,
on all occasions, the highest respect for candor and
good faith, in all their proceedings; and that on re-
ceiving the convention, so amended, and with such
a clause, they will immediately ratify it.'

** In the letter which accompanied these instruc-
tions is the following paragraph:

«* * l*he original scheme of the convention is far
from being unexceptionable; but a former Congress
having agreed to it, it would be improper now to
recede; and, therefore. Congress ai-e content to ratify
a convention made conformable to that scheme, and
to their act of the 26th January, 1782, provided a
clause limiting its duration be added.'

«* On the 27th July, 1787, Congress gave to Mr.
Jefferson a commission, in general terms, to nego-
tiate and conclude, with His Most Christian Majesty
a convention for regulating the privileges, 8ic. of
their respective consuls.

"In one of the letters then written to him is this
paragraph:

*« * Congress confide fully in your Ulents and dis-
cretion, and they will ratify any convention that is
not liable to more objections than the one already,
in part, concluded; provided that an article, limit-

VOP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

*M-4-

August, 1789.]

Froceeding$,

[Senatb*

ing its dumtion to a term not exceeding twelve
yean, be inserted,'

**A8 the convention in question is free from
several objections to which the one of 1784 was
liable, and is, in every respect, preferable to it, and
as it contains a clause limiting its duration to twelve
years, it seems to follow, as of necessary conse-
quence, that the United States ought to ratify it.

"All which is submitted to the wisdom of the
Senate. "JOHN JAY."

Tuesday, July 98.

Mr. Johnson, in behalf of the committee ap-
pointed the 13th of May, reported a bill for
the panishment of certain crimes af^inst the
United States; which was read a first time, and
Monday next was assigned for a second reading.

The Secretary carried to the House of Re-
|)resentatiyes the bill to reeulate the collection
of the duties imposed by law on the tonnage
of ships or vessels, ana on goods, wares, or
merchandises imported Into the United States;
concurred in, with amendments.

On^ motion, the Senators from the State of
New York proceeded to draw lots for their
classes, in conformity to the resolve of the 14th
of May; and two lut«. No. 3, and a blank,
being, by the Secretary, rolled up and put into
the &x, Mr. Sohuylkr drew blank; and Mr.
Kino having drawn No. 3, his seat shall ac-
cordingly be vacated in the Senate at the
exmration of the sixth year.

The Secretary proceeded to put two other
lots into the box, marked Nos. 1 and S; and
Mr. SoHVYLEH having drawn lot No. 1, his
seat shall accordinftiv be vacated in the Senate
at the expiration of the second year.

Wednesday, July 20.

Resumed the second reading of the bill for the
establibhment and support oflight-huuses, bea-
cons, and buoys.

Resumed the second reading of the bill to
establish the Treasury Denartment; and post-
poned the further consideration thereof until
to-morrow.

Proceeded to the second reading of the bill
for settling the accounts between the United
Staffs and individual States; and assigned to-
morrow for a third reading.

The Senate entered on executive business;
and having duly considered the convention be-
tween His Most Christian Majesty and the
United States of America, for the purpose of
defining and establishing the functions and
privileges of their respective consuls and vice-
consuls, transmitted to the Senate by the Pre-
sident of the United States, through the Secre-
tary for Foreign Affairs,

Buob/ed^ unanimou$iy. That the Senate do consent
to the said convention, and advise the President of
the United States to ratify the same.

Thursday, July 30.

Proceeded to a third reading of the ** bill for
iettling the accounts between Uie United States

and individual States;" and resolved, that the
Senate do concur therein; and the Secretary
notified the House of Representatives acconl-
dinsly.

Aoceeded to the consideration of the bill
for the establishment and support of light-
houses, beacons, and buoys.

Proceeded to the consideration of the bill to
establish the Treasury Department; and as-
signed to-morrow for a third reading.

On motion, that the sense of the Senate
should be taken on the following resolve, to
wit:

JUBohftdt That a clause passed, or amendment
made, in committee, shall not be revised in the
same committee, but may be so done in the Senate $
and no amendment or clause agreed to in the Se-
nate shall be reconsidered until the next reading of
the bill, except at the third reading of a bill, when»
by the consent of the Senate, it maybe amended.

Passed in the negative.

Friday, July 31.

Proceeded to a third reading of the bill to
establish the Treasury Department, which was
passed after being amended; and the Secretary
carried the bill to the House of Representa-
tives, concurred in with the amendments; also,
the concurrence of the Senate in the resolve of
the 31st July, and thje appointment of Mr.
WiNGATE as a standine committee, jointly with
a committee of the House, to examine and
present the enrolled bills that may pass the
Senate and House of Representatives from
time to time.

Proceeded to the second readine of the bill
to provide for the government of the territory
northwest of the river Ohio; and postponed the
consideration thereof to Monday next.

Monday, August 3.

Proceeded to the second reading of the bill to
provide for the government of the territory
northwest of the river Ohio; and assigned to-
morrow for a third reading.

The bil 1 for the establishment and support of
li^ht-houses, beacons, and buoys* concurred in
with amendments, was carried to the House of
Representatives by the Secretary.

The bill to establish an Executive Depart-
ment, to be denominated the Department of
War, was considered, and a third reading post-
poned until to-morrow.

The bill for the punishment of certain crimes
iMgainst the United States was read a second
time; and the further consideration thereof was
postponed. ,

The Senate entered on executive business.
The President communicated to them a list of
about one hundred appointments as collectors,
naval officers, and surveyors. The Senate ad-
vised and consented to about one-half the list;
the rest lay till to-roortx)W.

GALES &, BEATON'S HISTORY

Sbnatb.]

Proceedings.

[August, 1789.

Tuesday, August 4.

Proceeded to a third reading of the bill to
establish an Executive Department, to be deno-
minated the Department of War; which the
Senate concurred in, with amendments.

Proceeiled to the third readinf of the bill to
provide for the government of the territory
northwest of the river Ohio; which passed.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up a bill for making compensa-
tion Xo tlie President and Vice President of the
United States, and desired the concurrence of
the Senate therein;

Informed the Senate that the House had
agreed to the amendments to the bill for the
establishment and support of light-houses, bea-
cons, and buoys;

Brought up the acceptance, by thfe House of
Representatives«nf a report of a joint commit-
tee tipon the mode of presenting addresses, the
enrolment of bills, &c. ;

Together with the appointment of Messrs.
Wadswori'h, Carroll, and Hartlry, a com
mittee, to join with a bommittee of the Senate
to be appointed for the purpose, ^' to consider
of and report when it will be convenient and
proper that an adjournment of the present ses-
sion of Congress should take place; and to
consider and report such business, now before
Congress, necessary to be finished before the
adjournment, and such as may be conveniently
postponed to the next session; and, also, to
consider and report such matters, now before
Congress, but wnich it will be necessary should
be considered and determined by Congress
before an adjournment. '^
^ The Senate again entered on executive bu-
siness, and advised and confirmed all the
remainder of the list of appointments present-
ed yesterday, one excepted.

Wednesday, August 5.

Proceeded to a first reading of a bill for al-
lowing a compensation to the President and
Vice President of the United States, and as-
signed to-morrow for the second reading.

Appointed Messrs. Strong, Ellsworth,
and Carroll, a committee, jointly with the
committee of the House of Represents tivesy to
that purpose appointed, to consider what busi-
ness IS necessary to be acted upon prior to an
adjournment, and to report a proper time at
which an adjournment shall take place, agreea-
bly to a proposition fmm the House of Repre-
sentatives of the 4th of August.

The resolve of the House of Representatives,
on the report of a joint committee appointed
the 8th of May, upon the enrolment and pre*
sentation of the acts of Congress, &c. was read,
and ordered to be printed for the consideration
of the Senate.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought op the concurrence of the House
on the amendments proposed by the Senate to
the bill to establish an Executive Department, to

be denoroifiated the Department of War; and
their concurrence on the proposed amendments
to the bill to provide for the government of the
territory northwest of the river Ohio.

Mr. Bu-rLER, in behalf of the committee to
whom it was referred " to arrange and bring
forward a system to regulate the titide and in-
tercoui^e between the United States and the
territory of other Powers in North America and
the West Indies,'' reported:

That it will be expedient to pass a law for impos-
ing an increased duty of tonnage, for a limited time,
on all foreign ships and other vessels that shall load
in the United States, with the produce of the same,
to any port or place in America whereto the vessels
of the United States are not permitted to carry their
own produce; but such a law being of the nature of
a revenue law, your committee conceive that the
originating a bill for that purpose is, by the consti-
tution, exclusively placed in the House of Kepre-
sentatives.

Your committee beg leave further to report, as
their opinion, that it will be expedient to direct a
bill to be brought in for imposing similar restraints
upon the trade of the European settlements in
America with the United States, that are imposed
on the trade of the United States with those settle-
ments.

Besoked, That the first clause of this report be
accepted, and that the remainder of the report be
recommitted; and that it be an instruction to the
committee, in case it shall be their opinion that a
legislative provision ought to be made on the sub>
ject of the commitment, to report a bill for that
purpose; and that Messrs. Ellswobtb, Kiire, and
Rbao be added to the committee.

Thursday, August 6.

The Senate proceeded to a second reading
of the bill for allowing a compensation to the
President and Vice President of the United
States, and committed it to Messrs. Morhis,
Read, Elmer, Schuyler, Lakgdon, Carroll,
Ellsworth, Strong, Few, Izard, and Lee.

The following joint rules, established be-
tween the two Houses, were received from the
House of Representatives:

^^That while bills are on their passage, be-
tween the two Houses, they shall be on paper,
and under the signature of the Secretary or
Clerk of each House, respectively.

*^ After a bill shall have passed both Houses,
it shall be dulv enrolled on parchment, by the
Clerk of the House of Representatives, or the
Secretary of the Senate, as the bill may have
originated in the one or the other House, before
it shall be presented to the President of the
United States.

^^ When bills are enrolled, they shall be
examined bv a joint committee of one from the
Senate, ancf two from the House of Represen-
tatives, appointed as a standing committee for
that purpose, who shall carefully compare the
enrolment with the engrossed bills, as passed
in the two Houses, and, correcting any errors
that may be discorered in the enrolled bilUi

5.9

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

ArcuBT, 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Sbnai-e.

make their report forthwith to the respective
Houses.

*^ After examination and report* each bill
shall be signed in the respective Hoases first
by the Speaker of the House of Representa-
tives, and then by the President of the Senate.

'^ After a bilt shail have thus been signed in
each HoQj^, it shall be presented, by the said
committee, to the President of the United
States for his approbation; it being first en-
dowed on the back of the roll, certifying in
which Hoase the same originated; which en-
dorsement shall be signed by the Secretary or
Clerk, as the case mn}r be, of the House in
which the same did originate, and shall be en-
tered on the jonrnal of each House. The said
committee shall report the day of presentation
to the President, which time shall also be care-
fully entered on the journal of each House.

*^ All orders, resolutions, and votes, which
are to be presented to the President of the
United States for his approbation, shall aUo,
I'n the same manner, be previously enrolled.
eiaminedf and signed, and shall be presented
in the same manner, and by the same commit-
tee, as is provided in case of bills.

** That, when the Senate and House of Rep-
resentatives shall judge it proper to make a
joint ad(]ress to the President, it shall be pre-
sented to him in his audience chamber by the
President of the Senate, in the presence of the
Speaker, and both Houses. "

Read, and Reaohed, Tbat the Senate do concur in
<ht Kport.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up a bill for registering and clear-
ing vess-els, regulating the coastine trade, and
for other purposes; which was read, and post-
poned.

Friday, August 7.

The Senate, in the absence of the Vice Pre-
>ideut, proceeded to elect a President pro
tempore^ and the votes being collected and^
counted, the Honorable John La nod on was
unanimously appointed.

A message from the President of the United
States, bj (ieneral Knox:
{wtn^emen rftht Senate^

The bunn'ets which kas hitherto been under
the consideration of Congress has been of so much
Unpartaoce, that I was unwilling to draw their atten-
tion from it to any other subject. But the disputes
vhich exi^ between some of the United States and
lereral powerful tribes of Indians* within the limits
of the Union, and the hostilities which have, inse-
veral instances, been committed on the frontiers,
seem to require the immediate interposition of the
General Government.

I have, therefore, directed the several statements
and papers which have been submitted to me on
diis subject, by General Knox, to be laid before you
ibr yoar information.

Wliile the measures of Government ought to be
calculated to protect its citizens from all injury and
violence, a due regard should be extended to those

Indian tribes whose happiness, in the course of
events, so materially depends on the national justice
and humanity of the United States.

If it should be the judgment of Congress that it
would be most expedient to terminate all diffeiv
ences in the southern district, and to lay the foun-
dation for future confidence, by an amicable trca^
with the Indian tribes in that quarter, I think proper
to suggest the consideration of the expe^eacy of
instituting a temporary commisnon for that purpose,
to consist of three persons, whose authority should
expire with the occasion. How far such a measure,
unassisted by posts, would be competent to the es-
tablishment and preservation of peace and tranquilp
lity on the frontiers, is also a matter, which merits
your serious consideration.

Along with this object, I am induced to suggest
another, with the national importance and necessity
of which I am deeply impressed — ^I mean some imi-
form and effective system for tbe militia of the
United States. It is unnecessary to offer arguments
in recommendation of a measure, on which the ho-
nor, safety, and well-being of our countr}*^ so evi-
dently and so essentially depei^; but it may not be
amiss to observe, that I am pnticularly anxious it
should receive as early attention as circumstances
will admit, because it is now in our power to avail
ourselves of the militaty knowledge disseminated
throughout the several States, by means of the many
well-instructed officers and sdldiers of the late army;
a resource which is daily diminishing by death and
other causes. To suffer this peculiar advantage to
pass away unimproved, would be to neglect an op-
portunity which will never again occur, unless, un-
foKunately, we should agpain be involved in a long
and arduous war.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

New York, Auguit 7, 1789.

The above message was ordered to lie for
consideration.

Mr. Morris, in behalf of the committee on
the bilt for allowing a compensation to the
President and Vice President of the United
States, reported an amendment, to wit:

- To expunge, in the provision for the Vice Presi-
dent, *' Ave thousand dollars," and insert " six thou-
sand dollars." *

On motion to reduce the provision for the
President of the United States, from " twenty-
five thousand'* to ^' twenty thousand dollars:"

Passed in the negative.

On motion to make this provision for the Vice
President eight thousand dollars, instead of
five thousana dollars:

Passed in tbe negative.

And, on motion, the further consideration of
this clause of the bill was postponed.

The concurrence of the Senate upon the re-
solve of the House on the mode of enrolment,
and the presentation of bills, &c. was carried to
the House of Representatives.

The Senate entered on executive business.

The following messages from the President
were laid before them:
Geniknun of the Senate:

My nonunation of Benjamin Fishbooiu for the
place of naval officer of tlie port of ftavaanah not

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Sbnats.]

Proceedings.

[August, 1789.

hftTin^ met with your concurreiicey I now nominate
Lachkn Mcintosh for that office.

Whatever may have been the reasons which in-
daced your dissent, I am persuaded they were such
as you deemed sufficient. Permit me to submit to
your consideration whether, on occasions where the
propriety of nominations appear questionable to you,
It would not be expedient to communicate that cir-
cumstance to me, and thereby avail yourselves of
the information which led me to make them, and
which I would with pleasure lay before you. Pro-
bably my reasons for nominating Mr. Fishbourn may
tend to show that such a mode of proceeding, in
such cases, might be useful. 1 will, therefore, de-
tail them.

First. While Colonel Fishbourn was an officer, in
actual service, and chiefly under my own eye, his
conduct appeared to me irreproachable « nor did I.
ever hear any thing injurious to his reputation as an
officer or a gentleman. At the storming of Stony
Point, his beharior was represented to have been
active and brave* and he was charged by his General
to bring the account of that success to the head
quarters of the armv.

Secondly. Sinpe nis residence in Georgia, he has
been repeatedly ci^ected to the Assembly as a repre-
sentative of the county of Chatham, in which the
port of Savannah Is situated, and sometimes of the
counties of Glynn and Camden; he has been chosen
a member of the executive council of the State, and
has lately been president of the same; he has been
elected by the officers of the militia, in the county
of Chatham, lieutenant colonel of the militia in that
district; and, on a very recent occasion, to wit, in
the month of May last, he has been appointed by
the council (on the suspension of the late collector)
to an office in the port of Savannah, nearly similar
to that for which I nominated him; which office he
actually holds at this time. To these reasons for
nominatinp^ Mr. Fishbourn, I might add that I re-
ceived pnvate letters of recommendation, and oral
testimonials in his favor, from some of the most re-
spectable characters in that State; but as they were
secondary considerations with me, I do not think it
necessary to communicate them to you.

It appeared, therefore, to me, that Mr. Fishbourn
must have enjoyed the eonjidenee of the militia offi-
cers, in order to have been elected to a military
rank; the confidence of the freemen, to have been
elected to the A>ssemb1y; the eonjidenee of the As-
sembly, to have been selected for the council; and
the Gonfidenee of the council, to have been appointed
collector of the port of Savannah.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

Nsw York, August 6, 1789.

Gentlemen of the Senate.-

lly the act for settling the accounts between
the United States and individual States, a person is
to be appointed to fill the vacant seat at the Board
of Commissioners for settling the accounts between
the United States and individual States: I therefore
nominate John Kean, of the State of South Caro-
lina, to fill the vacant seat at the said Board of Com-
nussioners. GEO. WASHINGTON.

Nsw York, Juguit 6, 1789.

Proceeded to consider the nominations of col-
lectors, naval officers, and surveyors, contained

in the messages from the President of the United
States of the 3d and 6th August; and the Se-
nate did advise and consent to the appointment
of the following persons* to wit:

For the StcUe of So%tfh Carolina. — Beaufort,
Andrew Aenew, collector*

For the State qfGeor^a, — Savannah, Lach-
lan Mcintosh, naval ofbcer.

Proceeded to consider the nomination of
John K^an to fill 1l>e vacant seat at the Boarci
of Commissioners for settling the accounts be-
tween the United States and individual Statesf
and the Senate did advise and consent to hi»
appointment. And the Secretary, accoitling
to order, laid a certified copy of the proceed-
ings before the President of the. United States*

Monday, August 10.

Mr. Strong, on behalf of the Joint commit-
tee appointed the 5th of August to consider
what business is necessary to be acted upon
prior to an adjournment, and to report a proper
time at which an adjournment shall take place^
reported; and the report was ordered to fie for
consideration.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up a bill for allowing compensa-
tion to the members of the Senate and House
of Representatives of the United States, and
to the officers of both Houses; and requested
the concurrence of the Senate therein.

A message from the President of the United
States, by General Knox:

Gentlemen of the Senate:

I have directed a statement of llie troops in the
service of the United States to be laid before you
for your information.

These troops were raised by virtue of the resolves
of Cong^ss of the 20th October, 1786, and the 3d
of October, 1787, in order to protect the frontiers
from the depredations of the hostile Indians^ to pre-
vent all intrusions on the public lands; and to faci-
litate the surveying and selling of the same, for the
purpose of reducing- the public debt.

As these important objects continue to require
the aid of the troops, it is necessary that the esta-
blishment thereof should, in all respects, be con-
formed by law to the constitution of the United
States.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

New Yobk» Jiuguti 10, 1789.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of a bill for registering and clearing of vessels,
regulating the coasting trade, and for other
purposes.

Ordered^ That it be committed to Messis.
Morris, Dalton, Langdon, Butler, and
King.

The Senate entered on executive business.

On motion to commit the message from the
President of the Unite<l States relative to the
nomination of Mr. Fishbourn: It was postpon-
ed until a committee, appointed on the 6th of
August to wait on the President of the United
States, should report-

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

AuocsT, 17S9.]

Proceedings,

[Senate.

Tuesday, August 11.
Pnxreedcft to tire first reading of the bill for
billowing coTm)cn5»tion to tlie members «f the
Senate and House of Representatives of the
TTmted States, and to the officers of both
Hoaxes; and assigned to-morrow^forthe second
reading.

Wednesdat, August 13.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
T)f the bHI (t>r the punishment of certain crimes
against tlie United States; and postponed the
further consideration thereof untd to-m«)rrow.

Proceeded to a second reading of the bill for
allowing compeosation to the members of the
Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States* and to the officers of both
Houses; the furthc^r consideration of ^ich was
po«fpone(L

The Senate iheii entered on executive buai-
iiess. The committee, to whom wan referred
the tnenag^ of the President of the QSth of
May, with the Indian treaties and papei*a ac-
cotnoanjinz it, reported.

'fne consnieration oY the ret)ort whs postpon-
^1 nnii\ tfie 26t)i instant.

Thursday, August 13.

Proceeded to the consideration of the bill for
the punishment of certain crimes against the
United States.

^re/erec/, Tliat Monday next be assigned for
a third reading.

A message from tht* Hohse of Representatives
brought up a bili providing for the e)cpeuses
whidi mty attend negotiations or treaties with
the Indian tribes* and th« appointmefnt of com-
missioners for managing the samfe; together with
the papers rcfeiTcd to in the President's mes-
^a^ or the 7th of August.

Tlie bill providing for the expenses which
may attend negotiations or treaties with the
Indian tribes, and the appointment of commis-
sioners for managing the same, was read a first
time.

Ordered^ That to-mon-ow be assigned for a
second reading.

Friday, August 14.

Proceeded to the consideration of the bill
providing Tor the expenses which may attend
negotiations or treaties with the Indian tribes,
and the appointment of commissioners for ma-
nagiflg the same.

Ordered^ That the bill be committed to
Messi-s. Few, Ellsworth, Kino, Lee, and

Monday. August 17.

Mr. MdARis, on behalf of the committee to
vhcHD itivas referred, reported sundry amend-
neiits to the bill for registering and clearing of
'vesada, regalating the coasting trade, and for
other parposes.

Oraerea^ That the further consideration
thereof be postpcmed.

The committee appointed to take into con-
sideration the bill providing for the expenses
which may attend negotiations or treaties with
the Indian tribes, and the appointment of com-
missioners for managing tnc same, reported,
that it be

**£esolvedf Tliat there be allowed and paid to a
Superintendent of Indian Aifairs in tlie southern de-
partment, who may be nominated by the President,
and appointed by and with the advice and consent

of the Senate, the sum of per day, including

his expenses for the time he may be employed in
attending a treaty, proposed to be held by the com-
missioners of the United States and tlie Creek In-
dians, at the Roek-Landing, in the State of Georgia,
on the 16tK day of September next.

** That, ia case the proposed treaty should Imil in
the desired object, of establishing peaee between
the citizens of the United States and the Greek In-
dians, Congress will make such gnnts of moaey,
and pursue such other roea»ures, as wiU be neces-
sary f«r the protection and safety of the inhabitants
of the southern frontiers, and best secure the peace
of the United States. " A nd,

Or motion to accept the report, it passed in
the negative.

On motion that it be

Ruohed, That the President of the United SUt«s
be requested to nominate a fit person for Superin-
tendent of Indian AfTurs in the southern depai'tmeat,
in order that he may be 8cnt4forvardj as soon as may
be, to act with the Commissioners of Indian Affairs
in the southern department, appointed pursuant to
a resolution of Congress passed on the -^— day of

, and aid them in carrying into effect a treaty

tliatt is proposed to be held with the Creek nation
on the 15th day of September next, in the State of
Georgia, at the Rock-Landinr ;

Tliat the sum of — ^— dollars be delivered to
the said superintendent, to be appropriated for the
immediate purpose of the said treaty; for which sum
he shall be accountable;

That the President of the JUnited SUtes be re-
quested to instruct the said superintendent and
commissioners to hear, and fully investigate* all the
complaints and ,grieyances of the said Creek Indiana,
and to use all the means in their power to quiet
their mlnds,.and to do them ample justice, agreeably
to the aforesaid resolution of Congress and instruo-
tions heretofore given for that purpose: That, if the
said Indians should prove refractory, or refuse to
treat and establish peace on just and reasonable
terms, then, and in that case, the said superinten-
dent and commissioners be directed to make imme-
diate report thereof to the President of the United
States, and Congress will make such grants of mo-
ney, and pursue such other measures, as will be
necessary for the safety and protection of the inha-
bitants of the southern frontiers, and best secure the
peace of the United States."

It passed in the negative.

On motion that it be

Reaohed, That the President of the United Statet
be authorized and empowered, and he is hereby
authorized and empowered, should the Creek In*
dians decline to make peace with the State of Geor-
gia, to take effectual measures fbr coverinpf tha

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proc^edingi,

[August, 1789.

Wednesday, August 19.
A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House had
concurred in their amendments proposed to the
bin providing for the expenses which may at-
tend negotiations or treaties with th^ Indian
tribes, and the appointment of commisaicVners
for managing the same,

Thursday, August 30.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the bill for registering and clearing of ves-
sels, regulating the coasting trade, and for
other purposes; and, after progress.

Ordered^ That the further consideration
thereof be postponed.

The Senate entered on executive business.
The following communication was read from
the President:

Crenilemen of the Senate.-

In consequenoe of an act providing for the ex-
penses which may attend negotiatipna or treaties
with the Indian tribes, and the appointment of com-
miasiotiers for managing the same, I nominate Ben-
januB Lincoln as one of three commissioners whom

State of €;eorgia from tlie incursions of the Indians,
either by ordering some of the troops now at Fort
Harmar to march to the frontiers of Georgia, or by
embodying such a number of the militia as he shall
think sufficient to ensure to the citizens of Georgia
protection, and the cultivation of their lands in
peace and security; and that he be empowered to
draw on the Treasury for defraying the expenses of
the same.

And on motion for the previous question, to
wit:
'^ Shall the main question be now put?^
ft fMissed in the negative.

Tuesday, August 19.

The Senate proceeded in the second reading
of the bill providing for the expenses which
inay attend negotiations or treaties with the In-
dian tribes, and the appointment of commis-
sioners for managing the same.

Ordered, That the rules of the House be so
far dispen<)e<l with, as that the said bill shall
have a third reading at. this time. It was reiid
accordingly.

The Senate entered on executive business.

The following communication was read from
the President:
Crenilemen of ike Senater

In conformity to the law re-establishing the
•M'estem Territory, I nominate Arthur St. Clair,'
Governor; Winthrop Sargent, Secretary; Samuel
Holdcn Parsons, John Cleves Symmes, and William
Barton, Judges of the court. I also nomhiate Ebe-
nezer Tucker, surveyor of iJttle Egg Harbor, in
the State of New Jersey.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
New Tohk, Jugust 18, 1789.

The consideration thereof was postponed un
til to-morrow.

I shall propose to be employed to negotiate a treaty
with the Southern Indians, My reason for nomi-
nating him at tliis early moment is, that it will not
be possible for the public to avail itself of his ser-
vices on this occasion, unless his appointment can be
forwarded to him by the mail which will leave this
place to-morrow morning.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
New Yokk, Jugust 20, 1789.

Proceeded to consider the nominations of
Governor, &c. of the Western Territory, an
contained in the message from the President of
the United States of the i8lh August and the
Senate did advise and consent to the appoint-
ment of

Arthiir St. Clair, to be Governor of tlie
Western Territory;

Of Winthrop Sargent, to be Secretary; and

Of Samuel Holden Parsons, John Cleves
Symmes, and William Barton, to be Judges.

Proceeded to consider the nomination of
Ebenezer Tucker, to be Surveyor of Little
Kg^ Uarbory.in the State of New Jersey ami
of

William Gibb, to be Collector of Folly
Landing, in the State of Virginia. And the
Senate did advise and consent to their being,
appointed to ofBce^ agreeably to the nomina-
tions respectively*

Also» proceeded to consider the nominatioa
of Benjamin Lincoln, as one of the three com-
missioners to be employed to negotiate a treaty
with the Southern Indians.

And the Senate did advise and consent to
his appotnlment accordingly.

Mr. Izard, in behalf of the committee ap-
pointed the 6th of August. " to wait on the
President of the United States^ and confer
with him on the mode of communication,'' &c.
reported :

j'he consideration of which wai4 po8tp<mcd
until to-morrow.

Friday, August 21.

The Senate proceeded to tlie consideration
of the bill for registerinji; and clearing of ves-
sels, regulating the coasting trdde» and for other
purposes.

Ordered n That the bill be read the thir<l time
to-morrow.

The Senate, entered on executive business.
They proceeded to consider the report made
by Mr. Izard» yesterday, as follows:

The committee appointed to wait on tho
President of the United States, and confer
with him on the mode of communication proper
to be pursued between him and the Senate, in
the formation of treaties, and making appoint-
ments to offices, reported:

Which report was agreed to. Whereupon,

Budvedt I'hat when nominations shall be made in
writing by the President of the United States to the
Senate, a future day sliaU be assigned, unless the Sen-
ate unanimously direct otherwise, for taking jLhem
into consideration f that uhen the President of the
United States shall meet tlic Senate in the Senate

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

t *

August, 1789.]

Proc€tding9.

[8£NATJI;

Ctuunber, the President of the Senate shall have a
chair on the floor, be considered as at the head of
the Senate^ and his chair shall be assigned to the
Freadent of the United States; that when the
Senile shall be convened by the President of th|e
\jmted States to any other pUce, the President of
the Senate and Senators shall attend at the place
appointed. The Secretaiy of the Senate shall also
sttend to take the minutes of the Senate.

That all questions shall be put by the President
of the Senate, either in the presence or absence of
die President of the Uiuted States; and the Senators
shall sgniiy their assent or dissent by answering,
RM flteet aye or no.

Another message was received from the Pre-
sident, viz:

Ctnikmen of the Senate.'

In admtion to the nomination which I made
yesterday, of Benjamin Lincoln, as one of three
commissioners to be employed to negotiate a treaty
with the Southern Indians, I now nominate Cyrus
GiiAn axMl Da^id Humphreys, as the two other com-
raissinners to be employed to negotiate the before-
mentioned treaty.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
Nxw TosK, August 21, 1789.

Proceeded to the consideration of the last
recited nominations, and the Senate did advise
and consent to the appointments accordingly.

Also, the following message:

GaOkmen of the Senate:

l*be President of the United States will meet
the Senates in tlie Senate Chamber, at half-past
ckTcn o'clock to-morrow, to advise with them on
tbe terms of the treaty to be negotiated with the
SoGlhem Indians.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
Krw YoBK. August 21, 1789.

Saturday, August 23.

The inemonal of John Cox^ and others, citi-
zens of the State of New Jersey and of tlie
Sutc of Pennsylvania, praying that the future
seat of Groveniment might be establinhed on
die b«nks of the Delaware, and proposing a
ccssicm of a tract of land of ten miles square,
waslWen read, and, together with a draft of the
said tract, was laid on the table for considera-
tioo.

Proceeded to the third reading of the bill
for r^jbterinj^ and clearing of vessels, regulat-
ing the coasting trade, and for other purposes;
aiM, after pi-ogrcss.

The Senate again entered on executive busi-

The President of the United States came
into the Senate Chamber, attended by General
Loox, and laid before the Senate the following
sUUement of facts, with the questions thereto
unexed, for tJieir advice and consent:

'* To conciliate the powerful tribes of Indians
\n the southern district, amounting prubablv
u» fourteen thousand fighting men, and to attach
thaa finnlv to the United States, may be re-
^fded as highly worthy of the serious atten-
tion of Government.

*^The measure includes not only peace and
security to the whole southern frontier, but is
calculated to form a barrier against the colo-
nies of a European Power, whTChJn the mu-
tations of policy, may one day become the
enemy of the United States. The fate of the
Southern States^ therefore, or the neighboring
colonies, may principally depend on the present
measures ot the Union towards the Southern
Indians*

'^ By the papers which have been laid before
the Senate, it will appear that, in the latter end
of the year 1785, and the beginning of 1786,
treaties were formed by the United States with
the Cherokees, the Chickasaws, and Choctaws.
The report of the commissioners will show the
reasons why a treatv was not formed at the
same time with the Creeks.

'' It will also appear by the papers, that the
States of North Carolina and Georgia protested
against said treaties as infringing their legisla-
tive rights, and being contrary to the confede-
ration. It will further appear, by the said
Capers, that the treaty with the Cherokees has
een entirely violated by the disorderly white
people on the frontiers of North Carolina.

^* The opinion of the late Congress respect-
ing the said violation will sufficiently appear by
the proclamation which they caused to be issued
on the 1st of September, 1788,

^* By the public newspapers, it appears, tliat
on the 16(h of June last, a truce was concluded
with the Cherokees, by Mr. John Steele, on
behalf of the State of North Carolina; in which
it was stipulated that a treaty should be held,
as soon as possible, and that in the mean time,
all hostilities should cease on either side.

'^ As the Cherokees reside principally within
the territory claimed by North Carolina, and
as that State is not a member of the present
Union, it may be doubted whether any efficient
nieasures in favor of the Cherokees could bi!
immediately adopted by the General Govern-
ment.

*' The commissioners for negotiating with the
Southern Indians may be instructed to transmit
a message to the Cnerokees. statini; to them,
as far as may be proper, the difficulties arising
from the local claims of North Carolina, and
to assure them that the United States are not
unmindful of the treaty at Hopewell; and as
soon as the difficulties which are at present
opposed to the measures shall be removed, the
Government will do full justice to the Chero-
kees.

'* The distance of the Choctaws and Chicka-
saws from the frontier settlements seems to
have prevented those tribes from being involv-
ed in similar difficulties with the Cherokees,

''The commissioners maybe instructed to
transmit messages to the said tribes, contain-
ing assurances of the continuance of the friend-
ship of the United States, and that measures
will soon betaken for extending a trade to them
agreeably to the treaties of Hopewell. The
commissioners may also be directed to repot i

OALE!S k, SEA^rON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings.

[August, 1789<

a plan for the execution of the said treaties re-
S[x»cting trade.

** But the case of the Creek nation is of the
highest importance^ and requires an irtiihediate
decision. The catlse of the hostilities between
Georgia and the Creelcs is stated to be a differ-
ence in judgment concerning three treaties,
made between the said (Parties, to wit: at Au-

§usta, in 17R3, at Galphmton, in 1785, and at
houlderbone, in 1786. The State of Georgia
asserts, and the Creeks deny, the validity of
the said treaties.

*^ Hence arises the indispensable necessity
of having all the circumstances respecting the
said treaties critically investigated by conimis-
sionera of the United States, so that the further
measures of Government may be fornied on a
full knowledge of the case.

** In onler that the investigation may be con-
ducted with the highest impartiality, it wilt be
proper, in addition to the evidence of the docu-
ments in the public possession, that Georgia
should be represented at this part of the pro-
posed treaty with the Cr^ek nation.

•* It is, however;, tdrbe observed, in any issue
of the inquiry, that it would be highly enlbar-
rassing to Georgia to relinquish that part ot* the
lands stated to have been ceded by the Creeks,
Iving between the Ogeeche and Oconee rivers;
that State having surveyed and divided the
sAitie an^ohv certain descriptions of its citizens,
Who settled and planted thereon until dispos-
sessed by the Indians.

*| In case, therefore, the isstle of the investi-
eatioA should be unfavorable to the claims of
Georgia, the commissioners should be instruct-
ed to use their best endeavors to negotiate with
the Creeks for a solemn conveyance of the said
lands to Georgia.

** By the report of the cortimissioners who
were a'ppointed under certain acts of the late
Congress, by South Carolina and Georgia, it
appears that they have agreed to meet the
Creeks on the 15lh of September ensuing. As
it is with great difficulty the Indians are col-
lected together at certain seasons of the year,
it is important that the above occasion should
be emoraced, if possible, on the part of the
present Government, to form a treaty with the
Creeks. As the proposed treiity is of great
importance to the future tranquillity of the
State of Georgia, as well as of the United
States, it has been thought proper that it should
be conducted oti the part of the General Gov-
ernment by commissioners whose local situa-
tions may free them front the imputation of
prejudice on this subject.

" As it is necessary that certain principles
should be fixed, pteviously to forming instruc-
tions for the commissioners, the following ques-
tions, arising out of the foregoing communica-
tions, arc stated by the President of the United
States, and the advice of Senate requested
thereon:

*^ Ist. In the present state of affairs between
North Carolina and the United States, will it

be proper to take any other measures for re-
dressing the injuries of the Cherokees than
the one nerein suggested?

*^2d. Shall the commissioners be instructed
to pursue any other me^ures respecting the
Chickasaws and Choctaws than those herein
suggested?

^^ 3d. If the commissioners shall adjudge that
the Creek nation was fully represented at the
three treaties with Georgia, and that the ces-
sions of land were obtained with the full under-
standing and free consent of the acknowledged
proprietors, and that the said treaties ought to
be considered as just and equitable: in this case^
shall the toitiitiissioners be instructed to insist
on a formal renewal and confirmation thereof?
and, in case of a refusal, shall they be instruct-
to inform the Creeks that the arms of the Union
shall be employed to compel them to acknow-
ledge the justice of the said cessions?

*'4th. But if the commissioners shall ad-
jud|;e that the said treaties were formed with
an inadequate or unauthorized representation
of the Creek nation, or that the treaties were
held under circumstances of constraint, or un-
fairness of any sort, so that the United States
could not, with justice and dignity, request or
urge a confirmation thereof: in this case, shall
the commissioners, considering the importance
of the Oconee lands to Georgia, be instructed
to use their highest exertions to obtain a ces-
sion of said lands? If so, shall the commis-
sioners be instructed, if they cannot obtain the
said cessions on better terms, to offer for the
same, and for the further great object of at-
taching the Creeks to the Government of the
United States, the following conditions: 1st.
A compensation in money or goods, to the

amount of dollars; the said amount to

be stipulated to be paid by Georgia, at the pe-
riod which shall be fixed, or, in failure thereof,
by the United States. 2d. A secure port on
the AUamaha, 6r on St^ Mary's river, or at any
other place between the same, as may be mu-
tually agreed to by the commissioners and the
Creeks. 3d. Certain pecuniary considerations
to some, and honorable military distinctions to
other influential chiefs, on their taking oaths of
allegiance to the United States. 4th. A solemn
guarantee by the United States to the Creeks
of their remaining territory, and to maintain
the same, if necessary, by a line of military
posts.

^* 5th. But if all offers should fail to induce
the Creeks to make the desired cessions to
Georgia, shall the commissioners make it an
ultimatum?

^^ 6th. If the said cessions shall not be made
an Ultimatum, shall the commissioners proceed
and make a treaty, and include the aisputed
lands within tf^e limits which shall be assigned
to the Creeks? If not, shall a temporary boun-
dary be. marked, making the Oconee the line,
and the other parts of the treaty be concluded?
In this cases shaU a secure port be stipulated,
and the pecuniary and honoi^ary considerations

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

August, 1789.]

Proceedings,

[Senate.

granted? In other seneral obtjects, shall the
treaties funned at Hopewell with the Chero-
kees, Chickasaws, and Choctaws be the basis
of a treaty with the Creeks?

^ 7tli. Shall the sum of twenty thousand
dollars, appropriated to Indian expenses and
treaties, be wholly applied, if necessary, to a
treahr irith the Creeks? If not, what propor-
tion r*

Whereapon the Senate proceeded to give
their advice and consent.

The first question, viz; *' In the present
state of dflTairs between North Carolina and
the United States, will it be proper to take any
other measures for redressing the injuries of the
Cberokees than the one- herein suggested?"
was, at the request uf the President of the
United States, postponed.

'^Tlie second question, viz: *^ Shall the com-
missioners be instructed to pursue anv other
measure respecting the Chickasaws and Chuc-
taws than those herein suggested?^' being put,
was answered in the negative.

The consideration of the remaining ques-
tions was postponed till Monday next.

Monday, August 24.

The Senate was to-day wholly engaged in
executive business.

The President of the United States being
present in the Senate Chamber, attended by
General Knox,

*^The Senate resumed the consideration of
the state of facts, and questions thereto annex-
<rd, laid before them by the President of the
United States, on Saturday last. And the
first question, viz: ** In the present state of
affairs t)etween North Carolina and the United
States, will it l)e proper to take an^ other mea-
sores for redressing the injuries of the Chero-
kees than the one herein su^ested?'' being
pot, was answered in the negative.

'Fhe third question, viz: ** If the comri^is-
aoners shall adjudge that the Creek nation was
fully represented at the three treaties with
Georpa. and that the cessions of land were
obtained with the full understanding and free
consent oi[ the acknowledged proprietors, and
that the said treaties ought to be considered as
just and equitable: in this case, shall the com-
missioners be instructed to insist on a formal
renewal and confirmation thereof? and, in
cai»e of a refusal, shall they be instructed to
inform the Ci-eeks that the arms of the Union
shall t)e employed to compel them to acknow-
ledge the justice of the said cessions?^' was
wholly answered in the affirmative.

The fourth question, and its ibur subtlivisions,
viz: *** But if the commissioners shall adjudge
that the said treaties weie formed with an in-
adequate or unauthorized representation of the
Creek nation, or that the treaties were held
under circumstances of constraint or unfairness
of any sort, so that the United States could
not, with justice and dignity, request or urge

a confirmation thereof: in this case, shall the
commissioners, considering the importance of
the Oconee lands to Georgia, be instructed to
use their highest exertions to obtain a cession of
said lands? If so, shall the commissioners be
instructed, if they cannot obtain the said ces*
sions on better terms, to offer for the same, and
for the further great obtiect of attaching the
Creeks to the Government of the United States,
the following conditions;

^' 1st. A compensation, in money or goods,

to the amount of dollars: the said amount

to be stipulated to be paid by Georgia, at the
period which shall be fixed, or, in failure there-
of, by the United States.

^^ 3d. A secure port on the Altamaha or on St.
Mary's river, or at any other place between
the same, as may be mutually agreed to by the
commissioners and the Creeks.

^^3d. Certain pecuniary considerations to
some, and honorary military distinctions to
other influential chiefs, on their taking oaths of
allegiance to the United States.

^*4th. A solemn guarantee by the United
States to the Creeks of their remaining terri-
toiy, and to maintain the same^ if necessary,
by a line of military posts," was wholly answer-
ed in the affirmative. The blank to be filled
at the discretion of the President of the United
States.

The fifth question, viz: ^^ But if all offers
should fail to induce the Creeks to make the
desired cessions to Georgia, shall the commis-
sioners make it an ultimatum?" was answered
in the negative.

The sixth question being divided, the first
part^ containing as follows, viz: ** If the said
cessions shall not be made an ultimatum, shall
the commissioners proceed and make a treaty,
and include the disputed lands within the limits
which shall be assigned to the Creeks?" was
answered in the negative.

The remainder, viz: ^^ If not, shall a tempo-
rary boundary be marked, making the Oconee
the line, and the other parts of the treaty be
concluded?"

^^ In this case shall a secure port be stipulat-
ed, and the pecuniary and honoraiy considera-
tions granted?"

'^In other general objects, shall the treaties
formed at Hopewell, with the Cherokees,
Chickasaws, and Choctaws, be the tMisis of a
treaty with the Creeks?" were all answered in
the affirmative.

On the seventh question, viz: "Shall the
sum of twenty thousand dollars, appropriated
to Indian expanses and treaties, be wholly ap-
plied, if necessary, to a treaty with the Creeks?
if not, what proportion?" It was agreed to ad-
vise and consent to appropriate the whole sum,
if necessary, at the discretion of the President
of the United States.

The President of the United States withdrew
from the Senate Chamber, and the Vice Presi-
dent put the question of adjournment; to which
the Senate agreed.

GALES & SEATON'8 HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings.

[August, 1789,

Tuesday, August 95.

Mr. Maclat presented a draft of ten miles
square, including the borough of Lancaster,
with a letter, containing a aescriptiun of the
same, from Edward Hand, directed to the Ho-
norable Robert Morris and the Honorable
William Maclay. Mr. Maclay likewise
nominated Wright's Ferry, on the Susquehan-
nah: Yoi'k-Town, west of the Susauehannah;
Carlisle, west of the Susquehannah; Hairis
burgh, on the Susquehannah; Reading, on the
Schuylkill; and Germantown« in the neighbor-
hood of Philadelphia, as different places in
Pennsylvania, which had been proposed for the
permanent seat of Government of the United
States.

The letter being read, was, together with the
draft, ordered to lie for consideration.

Proceeded to the third reading of the bill for
registering and clearing of vessels, regulating
the coasting trade, and for other purposes; and

Reaohed^ That the Senate do concur therein with
nxty-nine amendmentB.

Also, the bill to establish the Treasury De-

Sartment, with an adherence of the House of
Representatives to a part of the eighth amend-
ment, to wit: " Whenever the Secretary of the
Treasury shall be removed from office by the
President of the United States, or in any other
case of vacancy in the office of Secretary, the
assistant shall, during the vacancy, have the
charge and custody of the records, books, and
papers appertaining to the said office."

Also, the resolve of the House of Represen-
tatives of the 24th of August, 'Uhat the Vice
President and Speaker of the House of Repre-
sentatives do adjourn their respective Houses
on the twenty -second dav of September next,
to meet again on the first Monday in December
next.'*

Also, the resolve of the House of Represen-
tatives, ^'that certain articles be proposed to the
Legislatures of the several States* as amend-
ments to the constitution of the United States;"
and requested the concurrence of the »Senate
therein.

The Senate proceeded to consider the resolve
of the House of Representatives of the 24th of
August, ^^ to adhere to the part of their eighth
amendment," before recited and,

On motion that the Senate do recede there-
from, the yeas and nays being required by one-
fifth of the Senators present, the determination

was as follows:

Yeaa, — Messrs. Bassett, CiuToll, Ellsworth, El-
mer, Henry, King, Morris, Paterson, Read, and
Schuyler. — 10.

Nay$. — Messrs. Butler, Dalton, Few, Gunn, John-
ion, Izard, Langdon, Lee, Maclay, and Win-
gate.— 10.

The Senate being equally divided, the Vice
President determined the question in the af-
firmative. So it was

Ruolvedt That the Senate do recede from ao much
of the eighth amendment as was disagreed to by the
House of Representatives.

The Senate proceeded to consider the re-
solve of the House of Representatives of the
24th of August, proposing, " that the Vice Pre-
sident and Speaker be empowered to adjourn
the Senate and House of Representatives, re-
spectively, on the22d of September," &C.5 and
it was agreed to,

A message was received from the House of
Representatives, with seventeen articles to be
proposed as additions to, and amendments of,
the constitution of the United States; such of
these articles as have been agreed to, and rati-
fied, will be found in the appendix to this vo-
lume.

Resumed the consideration of the bill for
allowing compensation to the members of the
Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States^ and to the oflicers of both
Houses.

Ordered^ That it be committed to Messrs.
Kino, Morris, Carroll, Izard, and Lee.

Wednesday, August 36.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the bill for the punishment of certain crimes
against the Uniteu States^ and, after progres«»,
adjourned.

The Senate entered on executive business.

Proceeded to consider the report of a com-
mittee, appointed June the 10th, on Indian
treaties made at Fort Harmar, the 9th day of
January, 1789, viz:

The committee, to whom was referred the
message of the President of the United States
of the 25th of May, 1789, with the Indian trea-
ties and papers accompanying the same, re-
port:

That the Governor of the Western Territory, on
the 9th day of January, 1789, at Fort Harmar, en-
tered into ^o treaties; one with the sachems and
warriors of the Six Nations, the Mohawks excepted;
the other with the sachems and warriors of the Wy-
andot, Delaware, Ottawa, Chippewa, Pattawattima,
and Sacs nations; that those treaties were made in
pursuance of the powers and instructions heretofore
given to the said Governor by tlie late Congresa.
and are a confirmation of the treaties of Foti Stan-
wix, in October, 1784, and of Fort Mcintosh, in Ja-
nuary, 1785, and contain a more formal and regular
conveyance to the United States of the Indian cUims
to tlie lands yielded to these States by the said
treaties of 1784 and 1786.

Your committee, therefore, submit the following'
resolution, viz:

That the treaties concluded at Fort Harmar,'on
the 9th day of January, 1789, between Arthur St.
Clair, Esq. Governor of the Western Territory, on
the part of the United States, and the sachems and
warriors of the Six Nations, (the Mohawks except-
ed,) and the sachems and warriors of the Wyandot,
Delaware, Ottawa, Chippewa, Pattawattima, and
Sacs nations, be accepted; and that th« President
of the United States be advised to execute and en-
join an observance of the same. •

Ordered^ That the consideration thereof be
poatponed.

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Septsmbbr, 1789.]

Proceedings^

CSenaix.

THimsDAY, August 27.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration of
the bill (or the punishment of certain crimes
against the United States.

Ordered ^ That the bill be engrossed.

Mr. Kino, on behalf of the committee to
whom was referred the bill for allowing c(mi-

gmsation to the members of the Senate and
ouse of Representatives of the United States,
«nd to the officers of both Houses, reported
amendments.

Ordered, That to-morrow be assigned for
taking tfie same into consideration.

Friday, August 28. ,

A message from the House of Representa-
tive*, by their Clerk, informed the Senate that
the President of the United States had signed
an enrolled resolve, for carrying into eHect a
survey directed by an act of the Tate Congress,
of the Cth of June, 1788; he bi*ought up an en-
rolled bill to establish the Treasury Depart-
ment, signed by the Speaker of the House of
Representatives; and an engrossed bill to pro-
vide for the safe-keeping ot the acts, records,
and seal of the United States, and for other
purposes, and requested the concurrence of the
tsenate therein. He also informed the Senate,
that the House of Representatives had concur-
red in the amendmejits prcmosed to the bill for
registering and clearing of^ vessels, regulating
4he coasting tntde^ and for other purposes, with
amendments to the third and fifty -seventh
amendments proposed by the Senate.

The Senate resumed the consideration of the
"bill for allowing compensation to (he members
of the Senate and House of Representati>'es
of the United States, and to the officers of both
Houses; which was passed, with amendments.
The Senate proceeded to consider the mes-
sage from the House of Representatives of the
^th of August, proposing amendments to the
third and fifty-seventh amendments of the
ISenate to a bilf for registerinjg and clearing of
vessels, regulating the coasting trade, antf for
other purposes.

Monday, August 31.

The Senate proceeded to the third reading
of the bill for allowing compensation to the
members of the Senate and House of Repre-
sentativcH of the United States, and to the
officers of both Houses; which was passed, with
amendments.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought to the Senate a bill for establish-
ing the salaries of the executive officers of Gov-
ernment, with their assistants and clerks; to
which the concurrence of the Senate was re-
quested. The bill passed its first reading.

Ordered^Thut this bill be read a second time
to-morrow«

executive officers of Qovernmeut, with their
assistants and clerks.

Ordered^ That this bill have the third reading
to-morrow.

Ordered, That the Secretary carry the bill
for allowing compensation to the members of
the Senate and House of Representatives of
the United States, and to the officers of both
Houses, to the House of Representatives^ and
request their concurrence in the amendments.

The bill to provide for the safe-keeping of
the acts, records, and seal of the United States,
and for other purposes, was read the second
time.

Ordered, ITiat thisLill have the third reading
to-morrow.

TrcsDAY, September 1.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill for establishing the salaries of the

Wednesday, September 3.

The bill to provide for the safe-keeping of
the acta, records^ an^ seal of the United States,
and for other purposes, was read the third time,
and

Ordered, That it be committed to Mr. Kino,
Mr. Paterson, and Mr. Read.

The third reading of the bill for establishing
the salaries of the executive officers of Gov-
ernment, with their assistants and clerks, was
further postponed.

The resolve of the House of Representatives
of the •24lh of August, 1789, " that certain arti •
cles be proposed to the Legislatures of the seve-
ral States, asamendments to the constitution of
the United States,^' was taken into considera-
tion; and, on motion to amend this clause of
the first article proposed by the House of Re-
presentatives, to wit: ** After the first enume-
ration required by the first article of the con-
stitution^ there shall be one representative for
every thirty thousand^ until the number shall
amount to one hundred,*' by striking out "one,**
and inserting "two," between the words
''amount to" and "hundred;"^

The yeas and nays being required by one-fifth
of tiie Senators present, the determination was
as follows:

Yeaa. — Messrs. Dalton. Gunn, Grayson, King^
Lee, and Schuyler.— 6.

Nays. — Messrs. Bassett, Butler, CarroU, Ells-
worib^ Elmer, Henry, Johnson, Izaid, Morris, Pater-
son, Head, and Wingate. — 12.

So it passed in the negative.

On motion to adopt the first article proposed
by the resolve of the House of Representa-
tives, amended as follows: to strike out these
words, '' after which the proportion shall be so
regulated by Congress, that there shall be. not
less than one hundred representatives, nor less
than one representative for every forty thousand
persons, until the number of representatives
shall amount to two hundred; after which the
proportion shall be so regulated by Congress*
that there shall not be less than two hundred
representatives, nor less than one representa-
tive for every fifty thousand personsj" and to
substitute the folfowing clause after the words

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings.

[Septrmber, 1789;

" one hundred:" to wit, " to which number one
representative shaU be atTded for every subse-
quent increase of forty thousand, until the re-
presentatives shall amount to two hundred, to
M'hich one representative shall be added for
every subsequent increase of sixty thousand
persons:" it passed in the affirmative.

Thursday, September 3.

A message from the House of Represei^ta-
tives brought up the bill for allowing compen-
satirm to the members of the Senate and House
of Representatives of the United States, and
to the officers of both Houses, and informed
the Senate that the House of Representatives
had disagreed to the first, second, and third
amendments, and had agreed to all the others.

Also, the bill to suspend part of the act to
regulate the collectitm of the uuties imposed by
law on the tonnage of ships or vessels, and on
goods,, wares,^ and merchandises imported into
the United Stales..

Friday, September 4t.

The Senate proceeded in the consideration of
the resolve of the House of Representatives of
the 24(h of August, on *' Articles to be propos-
ed to the LegiMlatures of the several States,
as amendments tothe constitution of the United
Slates."

Monday, September 7.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate
proceeded in the third reading of the bill to
provide for the safe-keeping of the acts, records,
and seal of the United States, and for other
purposes; and, on the report of the committee,

JUsohed^ To concur th.ercin^ with. amcndmeRts.

Tiie Senate proceeded in the third reading of
the bill for establishing tlve salaries of the ex-
ecutive officers of Government,, witii their
assistants and clerks; and

Mesolved, To concur therein, with amendments.

The bill to suspend part of aaact to regulate
the collection of the duties imposed by law on
the tonnage of ships or vessels, and on goods,
wares, and mercnandises imported into the
United States, was read the first time.

Ordered, That this bill be read the second
time to-morrow.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the resolve of the House of Representatives
of the 2il of September, on their disagreement
to the first, second,, and third amendments ol
the Senate to the bill for allowing compensa-
tion to the members of the Senate and House
of Representatives of the United States, and
to the officers of both Houses.

On motion that the Senate do adhere to their
first amendment to the said bill;

And the yeas and nays being required by one-
fifth of the Senators present,. the determination
was as follows;

Yeas, — Messrs. Bassett, Butler, Ualton, Ellsworth,
Gunn, Henry, Johnson, Izard, King, Lee, Morris,
and Read. — 12.

JVoy*. — Messrs. CaiToII, Elmer, Paterson,. Schuy-
ler, and Wingate. — 6.

So it was Hesohtd, That the Senate do adhere to
the first amendment to the said bill.

Reaohedy That the Senate do recede from their
second and third amendments t« the said bill.

Proceeded in the third reading of the bill for
allowing a compensation to the President and
Vice President of the United States;" and.

On the report of the committee,

Hesolved, That the Senate do concur in the said
bill, with the following amendments, to wit:

In the compensation to the Vice President,
strike out '* five thousand,^*' and insert "six
thousand.^'

Ordered^ That the Secretary do carry the
bill to the House of Representatives, and re-
quest their concurrence in the amendment..

The Senate resumed the consideration of tlic-
resolve of the House of Representatives of
the 24ih of August,, on **^ Articles to be pro-
posed to the Legislatures of the several States,
as amendments to the constitution of the Unit-
ed States."

On motion to adopt i\\e twelfth article of tlie
amendments proposed by the House of Repre-
sentatives, amended by the addition of these
words to the article, to wit: "where the con-
sideration exceeds twenty dollars;?' k passe<A
in the affirmative.

On motion to adopt the thirteenth article of
the amendments proposed by the House of Re-
presentatives, it passed in the affirmative

On motion to adopt the fourteenth-article of
the amendments proposed by the House of Re-
presentatives: it passed in the negative.

In the considerali(m of the fitteenth articlcr
proposed by the House of Representatives, (mi
motion to. add the fiullawi ng to the proposed
amendments,, to witi '*That the General Gov-
ernment of the United States ought never to
impose direct taxes but where the moneys
arising; from tlte duties, impost, and excise arc
insufficient for the public exigencies, nor theii^
until Congress shall have made a requisition
upon the States to assess,^ levy,. and pay theii:
respective portions of such requisitions; and ia
case any State shall neglect or refuse to pay it&
proportion, pursuant to such requisition, thea
Congress may assess and levy such State's pro-^
portion, together with interest thereon,, at the
rate of six per cent, per annum, from the time of
payment prescribed by such requisition $" it
passed in the negative.

On motion to add the following to the pro-
posed amendments, viz: ^' That the third sec-
tion of the sixth article of the Constitution oF
the United States ought to be amended, by in-
serting the word '* other" between the words.
'* no" and "religious:" it passed in tlie nega-
tive^

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Septexbrr, 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Senate.

Tuesday, September 8.

The Senate proceeded in (he consideration
of the resolve of the House of Representatives
of the 24th of August, -^ On articles to be pro-
posed to the Legislatures of tlie several States
as amendmeots to the constitution of the Unit-
ed States." Several amendments were propos-
ed, but none of them were agreed to. The sub-
ject was postponed till to-morrow.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the bill for allowing a compen-
sation to the President and Vice President of
the United States; and informed the Senate
that the House of Representatives had disa-
greed to the amendment thereon:

Also, (he bill for establishing the salaries of
the executive officers of Government, with their
assistants and clerks, with part of the amend-
ments agreed (o, and another part disagreed to.

Also, the bill for allowing compensation to
the meinbei's of the Senate and House of Rep-
resentatives of the United States, and to the
officers of both Houses; and informed the Se-
nate that the House of Representatives request-
ed a conference on the subjectr matter (»f the
disagreement of the two Houses on the said bill,
and had appointed Messrs. Shrkman, Tucker,
and Benson, managers on the'part of the House
t)f Representatives; and, also, that the House
of Representatives had concurred in their
amendments to the bill to provide for the safe-
keeping of the acts, records, and seal of the
United States.

The Senate proceeded to consider the disa-
greement of the House to a part of their amend-
ments to the bill for allowing a compensation
to the President and Vice President, insisted
on their amendment, and requested a confer-
ence; and the Senate receded from their amend-
ments to the bill for establishing the salaries of
(he executive officers, &c. The Senate also
agreed to a confei;ence proposed by the Houf^e
on the matter of disagreement between the two
Houses to the bill foi* allowing compensation to
the members of the Senate and House of Rep-
re^ntatives, &c. and appointed, as a commit-
tee on their part, Messrs. King, Izaud, and
M0RRI&

The Senate entered on executive business.

'ITiey proceeded to the consideration of the
me«t^ge from the President of the United
Stares, of the 25th of May, 1789, accompanying
the treaties formed at Fort Harmar, by Arthur
St. Glair, Esq., on the part of the United States,
viz: a treaty with the sachems and warriors of
the Six Nations, (the Mohawks excepted, ) and
a treaty with the sachems and warriors of the
Wyandot, Delaware, Ottawa, Chippewa, Pat-
tftwattima, and Sac nations. Whereupon,

Beaohed^ That the President of tlie United SUtes
be adriaed to execute and enjoin an observance of
the treaty concluded at Fort Harmar, on the 9th
day of January, 1789, between Arthur St. Clair,
Governor of the Western Territory, on the part of
the United States, and the sachems and warriors of

the Wyandot, Delaware, Ottawa, Chippewa, Pat-
tawattima, and Sac nations.

Wednesday, September 9.
The Senate proceeded in the consideration
of the resolve of the House of Representatives
on the articles to be proposed to the Legisla-
tures of the several States as amendments to
the constitution, and agreed to a part of them,
and disagreed to others; of which they informed
the House.

Thursday, September 10, 1789.

A message from the House of [Representa-
tives brought up a resolve of the House of Re-
presentative?, " that, until further provision be
made by law, the General Post Office of the
United States shall be conducted according to
the rules and regulations prescribed bv the or-
dinances and resolutions of the late Congress,
and that contracts be made for the conveyance
of the mail in conformity theretp."

This resolve was committed to Messrs. But-
ler, Morris, and Ellsworth, with an in-
struction to report a bill upon the subject.

Friday, September 11.

A Hiessase from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the- bill for suspending the
operation of part of an act imposing duties on
tonnage, to which he requested the concur-
rence of the Senate; which was read the tirst
and second times.

Mr. Butler, in behalf of the committee ap-
pointed on the 10th of September on the re-
solve of the 'House of Representntives, provid-
ing for the regulation of the Post Office, reported
not to concur in the resolve, and a bill upon
the subject-matter thereof;

And, on the question of concurrence in the
resolve of the House of Representatives, it pass-
ed in the negative.

The Senate entered on executive business.

The following message from the President
was read:
Gentlemen of the Senate:

1 nominate, for the Department of the Treasury
of the United States, Alexander Hamilton, of New-
York, Secretary; Nicholas Eveleigh, of South Ca-
rolina, Comptroller; Samuel Meredith, of Pennsyl-
vania, Treasurer; Oliver Wolcott, Jun., of Connec-
ticut, Auditor; Joseph Nourse, (in office,) Register.
For the Department of War, Henry Knox. For
Judge in the Western Territory, in place of William
Barton, who declines the appointment, George
Turner. For Surveyor in the district of Rappahan-
nock, State of Virginia, in place of Staige Davis^
who declines the appointment, I nominate Peter
Kemp. For Surveyor of Town Creek, in the dis-
trict of Patuxent, State of Maryland, in place of Ro-
bert Young, who declines the appointment, I nomi-
nate Charles Chilton. And, in case the nomination
of Samuel Meredith should meet the advice and
consent of the Senate, I nominate, as Surveyor of
the port of Philadelphia, William McPherson.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

Nrw Yoax, September 11, 1789.

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

Sbnate.]

Proceedings,

[Septembbr, 1789.

Ordered^ That the rules be so far dispensed
with as that the Senate do consider the Presi-
dent's message at this time; and.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Alexander Hamilton, of New-
York, to be Secretaiy for the Department of
the Treasury of the United States, it passed in
tbe affirmative.

On the question to advice and consent to the
appointment of Nicholas Eveleigh, of South
Carolina, to be Comptroller, and of Samuel
Meredith to be Treasurer, it passed in the af-
firmative.

Ordered^ That the further consideration of
the message from the President of the United
States be postponed until to-morrow.

Saturday, September 12.

Mr. Morris, on behalf of the committee ap-
pointed on the nth Septeinbei-, to consider the
bill to suspend part of an act to regulate the
collection of duties on the tonnage of ships and
vessels, &c., reported it with an amendment;
which was concurred with.

The Senate again entered upon executive bu-
siness, and proceeded in the cunsideration of
the message fnun the President of the United
Statesof the 11th of September; and,

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Oliver Wolcott, Jun., of Con-
necticut, to be Auditor for the Department of
the Treasury of the United States, it passed in
the affirmative.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Joseph Nourse, (in office,)
Register, it passed in the affirmative.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Henry Knox, Secretary for the
Department of War, it passed in the affirma-
tive.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of George Turner for Judge in the
yS estern Territory, it passed in the affirmative.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Peter Kemp for Survejjor in
tne district of RappahannucK, it passed in the
affirmative.

On the question to advise and consent to the
appointment of Charles Chilton, for Surveyor of
Town Creek, in the district of Patuxent, Stale
of Maryland, it passed iu the affirmative.

Ordered^ That the further consideration of
the message from the President of the United
Statesof the llth of September be postponed
for a few days.

MoKDAY, September li.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate
proceeded in the second reading of the bill for
the temporary establishment of the Post Office;
and.

Ordered^ That this bill have the third read-
ing to-morrow,

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of

Representatives had concurred in the amend-
ments proposed by the Senate to a bill to sus-
pend part of an act to regulate the collection of
the duties imposed by law on the tonnage of
ships or vessels, and on goods, wares, and mer-
chandises importeil into the United States.

Tuesday, September 15.

The Senate proceeded to the third reading
of the bill for the temporary establishment c?'
the Post Office.

Reaohedf That the engi'ossed' bill for the tempo-
rary establishment of the Post Office do pass.

Wednesday, September 16.

The following message from the President of
(he United Stales was received, by the Secre-
tary of War:

Gentlemen of the Senate.-

The Governor of the Western Territory liaa
made a statement to me of the reciprocal hostiritxes
of the Wabash Indians, and the people inhabiting'
the frontiers bordering- on the river Ohio, which I
herewith lay before Congress,

The United States, in Cong^ress assembled, by
their acts of the 21st day of July, 1787, and of the
12th August, 1788, made a provisional arrangement
for calling forth the militia of Virginia and Pennsyl-
vania in the proportions therein specified.

As the circumstances which occasioned the said
arrangement continue nearly the same, I think pro-
per to suggest to your consideration the expediency
of making some temporary provision for calling forth
the militia of the United States for the purposes
stated in the constitution, which would embrace the
cases apprehended by the Governor of the Wegtern
Territory.

GEa WASHINGTON.

September 16, 1789.

Thursday, September 17.

Mr. Lee, in behalf of the committee appoint-
ed to prepare a bill for organizing the Judiciary
of the United States, reported a bill to regulate
processes in the courts of the United States.

Ordered, That this bill have the first reading
nt this time.

Ordered^ That this bill be read the second
time to-m(jrro\v.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives inforn)o<l the Senate that the tiouse of
Representatives adhered to their disagreement
to the amendment proposed by the Senate to a
bill for allowing a compensation to the Presi-
dent and Vice President of the United States;
and that the House of Representatives had
concurred in the bill for the temporary esta-
blishment of the Post Ottice. It also informed
the Senate that the House of Representatives
had concurred in the bill to establish the judi-
cial courts of the United States, with amend-
ments; to which amendments the concurrence
of the Senate was requested.

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Skptkhbeb, 1789.]

Proceedings,

[Senate.

Ordered^ That the last mentioned bill, to-
sether with the amendments, be committed to
Messrs. Ellsworth, Butler, and Patrrson.

The Senate entered on executive business.

The following message was received from the
President of the United States:

GaUkmen of the SenaU.-

It dmibtless is important that all treaties and com-
pacts formed by the United States with other na-
tions, whether civilized or not, should- be made with
caution, and executed with fidelity.

It B said to be the general understanding and
practice of nations, as a check on the mistakes and
indiscretions of ministers or commissioners, not to
ooosider any treaty negotiated and signed by such
oflicers as final and conclusive, until ratified by the
sovereign or government from whom they derive
their powers. This practice has been adopted by
the United States respecting their treaties with Eu-
ropean nations, and I am inclined to think it would
be advisable to observe it in the conduct of our
treaties with the Indians; for, though such treaties
being, on their part, made by their chiefs or rulers,
need not be ratified by them, yet, being formed on
voT part by the agency of subordinate officers, it
Kems to be both prudent and reasonable that their
sets should not be binding on the nation until ap-
proved and ratified by the Government. It strikes
me that this point should be well considered and
settled, so tliat our national proceedings, in this res-
pect, may become uniform, and be directed by fixed
and stable principles.

The treaties with certain Indian nations, which
were laid before you with my message of the 25th
May last, suggested two questions to my mind, viz :
1st, Whether those treaties were to be considered
as perfected, and, consequently, as obligatory,
without being ratified? If not, then 2dly, Whether
both, or either, and which of them, ought to be rati-
fied' On these questions I request your opinion
and advice.

You have, indeed, advised me " /o execute and enr
join an oUervmiee of" tlie trealy with the Wyandots,
&c. You, gentlemen, doubtless intended to be
clear and explicitf and yet, without further expla-
nation, I fear I may misunderstand your meaning:
for if by my executing that treaty you mean that I
should make it (in a more particular and immediate
WMnner than it now is) the act of Government, then
it follows that I am to ratify it. If you mean by
iDj executing it that I am to see that it be carried
into effect and operation, then I am led to conclude,
either that you consider it as being perfect and
obligatory in its present state, and therefore to be
executed and observed; or, that you consider it
to denve its completion and obligation from the
Alent approbation and ratification which my procla-
mation may be construed to imply. Although I am
inclined to think that the latter is your intention,

et it certainly is best that all doubts respecting it

e removed.

Permit me to observe, that it will be proper for
me to be informed of your sentiments relative to the
treaty with the Six Nations, previous to the de-
partufe of the Governor of the Western Territory;

and therefore I recommend it to your early consi-
deration.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
September 17, 1789.

Ordered, That the President's message be
committed to Messrs. Carroll, Kino, and
Read.

Friday, September 18.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives was received, which informed the Sen-
ate that the House of Representatives had
agreed to postpone the consideration of the bill
for the punishment of certain crimes against the
United States, which had passed the Senate,
and was sent to the House of Representatives
for concurrence, until the next session of Con-

fress. It also brought up a resolve of the
[ouse of Representatives making it '^ the duty
of the Secretary of State to procure, from time
to time, such of the statutes of the several
States as may not be in his office;" to which
the concurrence of the Senate was requested.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill to regulate processes in the courts oT
the United States.

Ordered, That the further consideration
thereof be postponed until to-morrow.

The resolve of the House of Representatives
of the 18th September, empowering the Secre-
tary of State to procure, from time to time,
such of the statutes of the several States as
may not be in his office, was read; where-
upon,

Jletolvedt That the Senate do concur in the above
resolution sent up for concurrence by the House of
Representatives.

The Senate entered on executive business.

Mr. Carroll, oii behalf of the committee ap-
pointed yesterday, reported as follows:

The committee, to whom was referred a
message from the President of the United
Stales of the 17th September, 1789, report:

That the signature of treaties with the Indian na^
tions has ever been considered as a full completion
thereof, and that such treaties have never been
solemnly ratified by either of the contracting' parties,
as hath been commonly practised among the civilized
nations of Europe : wherefore, the committee are of
opinion that the formal ratification of the treaty
concluded at Fort Harmar, on the 9th day of Janua-
ry, 1789, between Arthur St. Clair, Governor of the
Western Territory, on the part of the United States,
and the sachems and warriors of the Wyando^
Delaware, Ottawa, Chippewa, Pattiwattima, and
Sac nations, is not expedient or necessary; and that
the resolve of the Senate of the 8th September,
1789, respecting the said treaty, authorizes the Pre-
sident of the United States to enjoin a due observ-
ance thereof.

I'hat, as to the treaty made at Fort Harmar, on
the 9th of January, 1789, between the said Arthur
St. Clair and the sachems and warriors of the Six
Nations, <cxceptthe Mohawks,) from particular cir-
cumstances aifectingp a part of tlie ceded lands, the

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

Sbnatk.]

Proceedings,

[September, 1789.

Senate did not judge it expedient to pass any act
concerning the same.

Ordered^ That the consideration of the report
be postponed until Monday next.'

The Senate proceeded to consider the mes-
sage from the President of the United States,
of September lllh, nominating William Mc
Pherson as surveyor of the port of Philadel-
phia; and.

Upon the question to advise and consent to
his appointment, it passed in the affirmative.

Saturday, September 19.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the Senate
proceeded in the second reading of the bill to
regulate processes in the courts of the United
States.

Ordered^ That the rules be so far dispensed
with, as that the last recited bill have the third
reading at this time. Ordered^ That the bill
be engrossed.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up a bill for amending part of an
act to regulate the collection of the duties im-
posed by law on the tonnage of ships or ves-
sels, and on goods, wares, and merchandises
imported into the United States; to which the
concurrence of the Senate was requested.

Ordered^ That the last recited bill now have
the first reading.

Ordered^ That the rules be so far dispensed
with, as that this bill have a second reading at
this time.

Ordered^ That this bill have the third read-
ing on Monday next.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the bill for allowins; certain
compensation to the Judses of the Supreme
and other courts, and to the Attorney General
of the United States; to which concurrence
was requested.

Ordered^ That the last recited bill have the
first reading at this time.

Ordered^ That the rules be so far dis|>ensed
with, as that this bill be now read the second
time.

Monday, September 21.

Mr. Morris, in behalf of the Senators from
the State of Pennsylvania, introduced a resolve
of the General Assembly of that State, of
March the 5ih, 1789, making *^a respectful
offer to Congress of the use of any or all the
public buildings in Philadelphia, the property
of the Slate, &c. in case Congress should, at
any time, incline to make choice of that city
for the temporary residence of the Federal Go-
vernment; which was read."

Ordered^ That it lie for consideration.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up a resolve of the House of this
date, to agree to the 2d, 4th, 8th, I9th, 13th,
16th, 18th, 19th, 25th, and 26th amendments,
proposed by the Senate, to ^' Articles of amend-

ment to be proposed to the Legislatures of the
several States, as amendments to the constitu-
tion of the United States;" and to disagree to
the Ist, 3d, 5th, 6th, 7th, 9th, 10th, 11th. 14th,
15th, 17th, 20th, 21st, 22d, 23d, and *^4th
amendments: two-thirds of the members pre-
sent concurring on each vote; and " that a con-
ference be desired with the Senate on the sub-
ject matter of the amendments disagreed to,"
and that Messrs. Madison, Sherman, and Vi-
NfNG, be appointed managers of the same on
the part of the House of Representatives.

Resolved by the Senate and House of SepreaentaHvea
of the United States of Jimeriea in Congress asstmhkd,
I'hat it be recommended to the Legislatures of the
several States to pass laws, making it expressly the
duty of the keepers of their gaols to receive, and
safe keep therein, all prisoners committed under
the authority of the United States, until they shall
be discharged by due course of the laws thereof,
under the like penaldes as in the case of prisoners
committed under the authority of such States res-
pectively; the United States to pay for the use and
keeping of such g^ols, at the rate of fifty cents per
month for each prisoner that shall, under their au-
thority, be committed thereto, during the time such
prisoners shall be therein confined; and, also, to
support such of said prisoners as shall be committed
for offences.

Ordered^ That the Secretary do carry this
resolve to the House of Representatives, and
request concurrence therein.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the resolve of the benate of
this day, making provision *^for the safe keep-
ing of the prisoners committed under the au-
thority of the United States," concurred in by
the House of Representatives; also the bill for
allowing certain compensation to the Judges of
the Supreme and other Courts, and to the At-
torney General of the United States: and in-
formed the Senate that the House of Represen-
tatives had agreed to all the amendments pro-
posed to the said bill, except the fourth, to
which they had disagreed.

The Senate proceeded to consider the disa-
greement of the House of Representatives to'
their fourth amendment to the bill last recited;
and,

Resohedf That the Senate do recede therefrom.

Tuesday, September 22.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up an order of the House of Re-
presentatives, for postp(ming the adjournment
of Congress until the 26th of September, for
concurrence.

The Senate proceeded to consider the order
of the House of Representatives of this day,
"rescinding the orcler to the Vice President
and Speaker, of the 25th of August, to adjourn
the respective Houses of Congress on the 22d,
and empowering them to adjourn the same on
the 26tn instant; and.

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

Septkiibbr, 1789.]

Proceedings,

[Senate.

der.

That the Senate do concur in the said or-

Ordered, That the bill to establish the seat
of Guvernment of the United States have the
fint reading at this time.

Ordered^ That it be read a second time to-
morrow.

The Senate entered on executive business.

They proceede'd to consider the report of the
committee, appointed the 17th, on the Presi-
dent's message of that date: and,

On motion to postpone the report, to substi-
tute the following, to wit:

Menhed^ That the Senate do advise and consent
that the President of the United States ratify the
treaty concluded at Fort Harmar, on the 0th day of
Januaty, 1789, between Arthur St Clair, Governor
of the Western Territory, on the part of the United
States, and the sachems and warriors of the Wyan-
dot, Delaware, OtUwa, Chippewa, Pattawattima,
and Sac nations:

It passed in the affirmative.

And, it being suggested that the treaty con-
cluded at Fort llarmar, on the 9th day of Janu-
ary, 1789, between Arthur St. Clair, Governor
of the Western Territory, on the part of the
United States, and the sachems and warriors
of the Six Nations, (except the Mohawks,) may
be construed to prejudice the claims of the
States of Massachusetts and New York, and
of the grantees under the said States, respect-
ively;

Ordered^ That the consideration thereof be
p(»tponed until next session of Senate.

Wednesday, September 23.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the bill to recognise, and adapt
to the constitution of the United States, the
establishment of the troops raised under the
resolves of the United States in Congress as-
sembled, and for other purposes therein men-
tioned; to which concurrence was requested.

Ordered^ That the bill brought up from the
House of Representatives this morning be now
read the first time.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the Se-
nate proceeded to the second reading of the
bill to establish the seat of Government of the
United States; and, after progress, adjourned.

Thursoat, September 24.

A me^sa^e from the House of Representa-
tires brou^t up the bill to alter the time for
the next meeting of Congress; the bill to ex-
plain and amend an act for registering and
clearing vessels, regulating the coasting trade,
and for other purposes; and, '^ a resolve on
the petition of Baron de Glaubeckx to which
he requested the concurrence of the Senate.

Ordered^ That the bill to explain and amend
an act for registering and clearing vessels,
ttsfiltiting the coasting trade, and for other
po/poses, be now read the first time.

The Senate proceeded in a secnnd reading
of the bill to establish the seat of Government
of the United States.

On motion to strike out these words, '*in
the State of Pennsylvania," after the word Sus-
quehannah, line 4th, and the yeas and nays
being required by one-fifth of the Senatora
present, the determination was as follows:

YeoB. — Messrs. Basset, Butler, Carroll, Grayson,
Gunn, Henry, Izard, and Lee. — 8.

Nays. — Messrs. Dalton, Ellsworth, Johnson, King,
Maclay, Morris, Paterson, Read, Schuyler, and
Wingate.— 10.

So it passed in the negative.

On motion that these words, " at some con-
venient place on the banks of the river Sus-
quehannah, in the State of Pennsylvania," lines
3d and 4th, be stricken out, it passed in the
negative.

On motion for reconsideration, on a sugges-
tion that the question was not understooT, it
passed in the affirmative.

And, on the main question, the yeas and
nays being required by one-fifth of the Sena-
tors present, the determination was as follows:

YeoB. — Messrs, Bassett, Butler, Dalton, Ellsworth,
Grayson, Gunn, Lee, Morris, Paterson, Read, and
Wingate.— 11.

Nays. — Messrs. Carroll, Heniy, Johnson, Izard,
King, Maclay, and Schuyler. — 7.

So it passed in the affirmative.

On motion to insert, in the room of the word
stricken out, ^^at some convenient place on the
northern bank of the river Potomac," it pass-
ed in the negative.

On motion to restore these words, ^^ at some
convenient place on the banks of the river Sus-
quehannah,''

A motion was made to postpone this, to insert
the following motion, to wit: to fill the blank
with these words ^' in the counties of Philadel-
phia, Chester, and Bucks, and State of Penn-
sylvania, including within it the town of Ger-
man town, and such part of the Northern
Liberties of the city of Philadelphia as are not
excepted by the act of cession passed by the
Legislature of the said State."

And the question of postponement passed in
the affirmative.

And, on the main question, the yeas and nay«
being required by one-fifth of the Senators pre-
sent, the determination was as follows:

Yeaa. — Messrs. Bassett, Dalton, Ellsworth, King,
Morris, Paterson, Read, Schuyler, and Wingate. — 9.

Nays, — Messrs. Butler, Carroll, Grayson, Gunn,
Henry, Johnson, Izard, Lee, and Maclay.— 9.

The numbers being equal, the Vice Presi-
dent determined the question in the affirmative.

The Senate entered on executive business.

The following message from the President of
the United States was i*ead:

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings,

[September, 1789.

Qtntlemen of the tknaU:

I nominate fur^tiie Supreme Court of the United
SUtes—

Foir Chief Justice^ — John Jay, of New York.

For JlssodaU Judgea* — John Rutledge, of South
Carolina; James Wilson, of Pennsylvania; William
CiLshing, of Massachusetts; Robert H . Harrison, of
Maryland; John Blair, of Virginia.

I also nominate, for District Judges, Attorneys,
and Marshals, the persons whose names are below,
and annexed to the districts, respectively, viz :

Districts.
Maine,

New Hampshire,
Massachusetts,
Connecticut,
Pennsylvania,
Delaware, -
Maryland, -
Virginia,
South Carolina,
Georgia,
Kentucky, •

Districts.
Maine,

New Hampshire,
Massachusetts,
Connecticut,
Pennsylvania,
Delaware, -
Maryland, -
Virginia,
South Carolina,
Georgia,
Kentucky, -

Districts.
Maine,

New Hampshire,
Massachusetts,
Connecticut,
Pennsylvania,
Delaware, •
Maryland, •
Virginia,
South Carolina,
Georgia,
Kentucky, -

Jtu^es.

• David Sewell.

- John Sullivan.

• John Lowell.

- Richard Law.

- Francis Hopkinson.

- Gunning Bedford.

- Thomas Johnson.

• Edm. Pendleton.

- Thomas Pinckney.

• Nathaniel Pendleton.
^ Harry Innes.

JUtomeys.

- William Lithgow.

• Sam. Sherburne, Jun.

- Christopher Gore.

- Pierpont Edwards.

- William Lewis.

• George Read, Jun.

• Uichai*d Potts.

- John Marshall.

- John Julias Pringle.

• Mat. McAllister.

- George Nicholas.

Marslujls.

- Henry Dearborn.

- John Parker.

- Jonathan Jackson.

- Philip Bradley.

- Clement Biddle.

• Allan McLean.

• Nathaniel Ramsay.

- Edward Carrington.

- Isaac Huger.

- Robert Forsytli.

- Sam. McDowell, Jun.
GEO. WASHINGTON.

Friday, September 25.

The Senate, agreeably to (he order of the
day, proceeded in the second reading of the
bill to establish the seat of Government of the
United States.

On motion to strike out these words, '* And
that, until the necessary buildings shall be
erected therein, the seat of Government shall
continue at the city of New York;"

And the yeas and nays being required by
one -fifth of the Senators present, the determi-
nation was as follows:

Yeas. — Messra. Butler, Carroll, Grayson, Gunn,
Henry, Lee, and Maclay. — 7.

Nays. — Messrs. Bassett, Dalton, Ellsworth, John-
son, Izard, King, Morris, Paterson, Read, Schuyler,
and Wingate. — 11.

So it passed in the negative.

On motion to amend the second section, to
read as follows: ^^ And be it further enacted^
That the President of the United States be au-
thorized to appoint three commis:iioners, who
are,' under his direction, to locate a district,
not exceeding ten miles square, in the said
counties, and including therein the said North-
ern Liberties and town of Germantown, and
to purchase such quantity of land within the
same as may be necessary, and to accept grants
of lands for the use of the United States, and
to erect thereon, within four years, suitable
buildings for the accommodation of the Con-
gress and of the officers of the United States:"

It passed in the affirmative.

On motion to strike out the two last sections,
and to substitute the following: ^^ Provided^
That no powers herein vested in the President
of the United States, shall be carried into ef-
fect until the State of Pennsylvania, or indivi-
dual citizens of the same, shall ^ive satisfacto-
ry security to the Secretary of the Treasury to
furnish and pay, as the same may be necessary,
one hundred thousand dollars, to be employed
in erecting the said buildings:"

It passed in the affirmative.

Ordered^ That this bill be read the third
time to-morrow.

A message from the House of Representa>
tives informed the Senate that the House t>f
Representatives had passed a resolve, request-
ing " the President of the United States !to
transmit to the Executives of the several States,
which have ratified the constitution, copies of
the amendments proposed by Congress to be
added thereto; and like copies to the Execu-
tives of the States of Rhode Island and North
Carolina;" and that the House requested the
concurrence of the Senate therein. It also
infornied the Senate, that the House of Repre-
sentatives had passed a bill making appropria-
tions for the service of the present year; to
which concurrence was also requested.

Ordered, That the last mentioned bill be
now read the first time.

Ordered, That this bill be read the second
time to-morrow.

The Senate proceeded to consider the mes-
sage from the House of Representatives of the
24th, with amendments to the amendments of
the Senate to ^' Articles to be proposed to the
Legislatures of the several States, as amend-
ments to the constitution of the United States;*'
and,

Resohedt That the Senate do concur in the amend-
ments proposed by the House of Representattvea to
the amendments of the Senate.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of
Representatives had passed a resolve, appoint-
ing a joint committee " to wait on the Presi-
dent of the United States, to request that he
would recommend to the people of the United
States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer
to be observed; and, ** An act, providing for

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

SEn-Bmcii, 1789.]

Proceedings,

[Senai-b.

the pajment of the invalid pensioners of the
UaiteJ States;'^ to all which the concurrence
of the Senate was reauei^ed.

The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ments of the Hoase of Representatives to the
bill to regulate processes in the courts of the
Ubited Slates, and

Booked, That the Senate do concur in all the
amendments except the first, in which they do not
concur.

The Senate proceeded in the second reading
of ihe bill to alter the time for the next meeting
of Congress. It was read the third time.

Saturday, September 26.

The following message was received from
the President of the United States, by Mr. Jay:
Ceniitmen of the Smaie,'

Having jesterday received a letter written in
thia month, by the Governor of Rhode Island, at the
request, and in behalf, of tlie General Assembly of
thatt State, tddressed to the President, the Senate,
and the Hoase of Representatives of the eleven
United States of America in Congress assembled, I
take the e»tUest opportunity of laying a copy of it
before jou. GEO. WASHINGTON.

SepUmber 26, 1789.

Ordered^ That the message, together with the
Ictrer therein referred to, lie for ccmsideration.

Baohtd^ That the order of the 22d instant, di-
recbog the President of the Senate and Speaker of
the House of Representatives, to adjourn their res-
pective Houses on this day, be rescinded; and, in-
stead thereof, that they be directed to close the
present session by adjourning their respective
Uuuaes on the 29th instant.

A message from tlie House of Repi*esen(a-
tifes informed tlie Senate that the House of
Representatives had concurred in the above
rvsolve.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill making appropriations for the service
of the present year.

Ordered^ That it be committed to Messrs.
Read, Butler, Kino, Ellswouth, and Mor-
ris.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of
Representatives do insist on their amendment
to the bill to regulate processes in the courts of
the JJnktd States.

The Senate proceeded to the third reading of
the bill to establish the seat of Government of
the United States.

Od motion to postpone the further considera-
tiim thereof, it passed in the negative.

On the question, ^' Shall this bill pass?"

The jeas and nays being required by one-
fifth of the Senators present, tlie determination
waA as follows.

Teas. — Messrs. Bassett, Dalton, Ellsworth, John-
iOD, King, Morris, Paterson, Read, Schuyler, and
Wingate. — 10.

3^. — Messrs. Butler, Carroll, Grayson, Gunn,
Bemy, izard, and Lee.— 7.

So it ptMed in the affirmative.
8

Ordered^ That the Secretary do carry this
bill to the House of Representatives, and re*
quest their concurrence in the amendments.

The Senate proceeded to consider the amend-
ment insisted on by the House of Representa«-
tives to the bill to regulate processes in the
courts of the United States.

Ordered^ That a conference be proposed on
the subject-matter of disagreement; that Mr.
£ll8worth, Mr. Ring, and Mr. Read, be
managers thereof on the part of the Senate, and
that the Secretary do carry a message to the
House of Representatives accordingly, and re-
quest the appointment of managers of the con-
lerence on their part.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House had
agreed to the proposed conference, and had ap-
pointed Messrs. White, Burke, and Jack-
son, managers on their part.

The Senate proceeded to the first reading of
the bill providing for the payment of the invalid
pensioners of the United States.

Ordered^ That this bill be committed to
Messrs. Read, Butler, King, Ellsworth,
and Morris.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill to recognise and adapt to the consti-
tution of the United States the establishment
of the troops raised under the resolves of the
United States in Congress assembled, and for
other purposes therein mentioned.

The Senate proceeded to the third reading
of the bill for amending part of an act to regu-
late the collection of the duties imposed by law
on the tonnage of ships and vessels, and on
goods, wares, and merchandises imported into
the United States.

Ordered^ That this bill be committed to
Messrs. Read, Morris, and Dalton.

The Senate proceeded to the second reading
of the bill to explain and amend an act for
registering and clearing vessels, regulating the
coasting trade, and for other purposes.

Ordered^ That this bill be committed to
Messrs. Read, Morris, and Dalton.

The Senate proceeded to consider the fol-
lowing resolve of the House of Representa-
tives of the 25th instant, to wit:

^' Resolved^ That a joint committee of both
Houses be appointed to wait on the President
of the United States, to request that he would
recommend to the people of the United States
a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be
observed, by acknowledging, with srateful
hearts, the many and signal favors of Almighty
God, especially by affbnling them an opportu-
nity peaceably to establish a constitution of
government for their safety and happiness.

** Ordered^ That Messrs. Boudinot, Sher-
man, and Stlvesi'er be appointed of the said
committee on the part of this House."

Ruohed^ That the Senate do concur in the above
recited resolution, and that Messrs. Joavsoir and
IsAMD be the conomittee on the part of the Senate*

GALES &- SEATON'S HISTORY

Senate.]

Proceedings,

[September, 1789«

Buolved, That Messrs. JoHirsoir and Izabu be a
committee on the part of the Senate, together with
such committee as may be appointed on the part of
the House of Representatives, to wait on the Presi-
dent of the United States, and acquaint him that Con-
gress hare agreed upon a recess on the 29th instant

The Senate entered on executive business.

All the appointments proposed by the Presi-
dent in his message of the 24th instant were
confirmed f

And the foUowing message was received from
the President:

QeniUmen of the Senate.'

I nominate, for the district of New York, Jame»
Duane, Judge; Williaro S. Smith, Marshal^ Richard
Harrison, Attorney.

For the district of New Jersey, David Brearly,
Judge; Thomas Lowry^ Marshal; Richard Stockton,
Attorney.

And I likewise nominate Thomas Jefferson, for
Secretary of State; Edmund Randolph, for Attorney
General; Samuel Osgood, for Postmaster General.

GEO. WASHINGTON.

Skptembar 25, 1789.

And the appointmeivts were immediately con-
firmed..

Monday, September 28.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House had
concurred in the appointment of a committee
en their part *^ to wait on tl>e President of the
United States, and to acquaint him of the in-
tended recess of Congress on the 29th instant;"
and that Messrs. Viniko, Lee, and Oilman
were joined.

Mr. Read, on behalf of the committee ap-
pointetl on the bill to explain and amend an act
[or registering and clearing of vessels, regulat-
ing the coasting trade^ and for other purposes,
reported the same with an amendment.

Ordered^ That the report of the committee
be postponed to take up the bill.

The Senate proceeded in the third reading
of the last recited bill, and

Eeaokfedt That this bill do pass with the amend-
ment.

Mr. Read, on belialf of the committee ap-
pointed on the bill for amending part of an act
to regulate the collection of the duties imposed
by law on the tonnage of ships or vessels, and
on goods, wares, and merchandises imported
into the United Slates, reported non-concur-
rence; whereupon,

Jteaohedj That this bill do not pass.

Mr. Read, on behalf of the committee on
the bill to recoj;nise and adapt to the constitu-
tion of the United States the establishment of
the trocms raised under the resolves of the
United States in Congress assembled, and for
other purposes therein mentioned, reported
amendments.

Ordered^ That the report be postponed to
take up the bill.

Proceeded in the third reading of the bill.

Raolvedt That this bill do pass with the amend-'
ments reported by the committee.

Mr. Read, in behalf of the committee ap-
pointed on the biU providing for the payment of
the invalid pensioners of the United States,
reported concurrence r

Ordered^ That this bill be now read the se-
cond time.

Ordered^ That the rules be so far dispensed
with as that this bill have a thii-d reading at
this time.

Beaohedi. That this bill do pass.

The managers appointed on the part of the
Senate to corvfer on the subject of the disagree-
n>ent of the two Houses on the first amendment
proposed by the House of Representatives t»
the bill to regulate processes in the courts of
the United States, reported that they could not
agree on a report;

And, en motion to adopt the following reso*
lution, to wit: That the Senate do agree to the
first amendment proposed by the House of Re-
presentatives, with an amend roent, by striking
out, after the word ^ issuing," ia the third and
fourth lines of the first section, the followine
words: ^^ out of any of the courts ot* the United
States of America, shall be in the name of the
President of the United States of America, and
if they issue;' and, by inserting after the word
^ executions," in the second line of the second
Uection, the words *' except their style," it
passed in the negative.

On* motion that the Senate do recede from
the first amendment, it passed in the negati-ve.

On motion that the Senate do adhere to the
first amendment, a motion was made to post>
pone this in order to reconsider the first propo-
sition; and h passed in the afiirmative.

And on motion to adopt the proposed amend-
ment to the first amendment made by the House
of Representatives on the bill, it passed in the
afiirmative.

A messnse from the House of Representa-
tives brought up the bill for establishing a per-
manent seat of Government; and informed the
Senate, that the House had concurred in the
amendments thereto, with the following amend-
ment: '* And • providetl that nothing herein
contained shall be construed to affect the ope-
ration of the laws of Pennsylvania, within the
district ceded and accepted, until Congress
shall otherwise provide by law."

Mr. Read, on behalf of the committee ap-
pointed to consider the bill making appropria-
tions for the service of the present year, re-
ported amendments.

Ordered^ That the report of the committee
be postponed, and that this bill have its thirti
reading at this time.

Resolved^ That this bill do pass^ with the amend-
ments reported by the committee.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of
Representatives had agreed to the amendment

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

September, 1789.]

Proceedings.

[Senate.

to the amendment to a bill to regulate process-
es in the courts of the United States; also to
the amendments to the bill to explain and
amend an act for registering and clearing ves-
sels, regulating (he coasting trade, and for other
purposes; also, in the amendments proposed to
the bill making appropriations for the service
«f the present year.

The Senate proceeded to the consideration
of the amendment proposed by the House of
Representatives to the amendment of the Sen-
ate to the bill to establish the seat of Govern-
ment of the United States.

On motion that the further consideration of
this bill be postponed to the next session of
Congress, it passed in the affirmative.

Tuesday, September 29.

The following communications from the Pre-
sident were received by Mr. Jay:

Ocntltmen of the Senate,'

Hia Most Christian Majesty, by a letter dated
the 7th of June last, addressed to the President and
members of the General Congress of the United
States of North America, announces the much la-
mented death of his son, the Uauphin. The gene-
rous conduct of the French monarch and nation
tovrards this country renders every event that may
affect hia or their prosperity interesting to. us; and
t shall take care to assure him of the sensibility with
which the United States participate in the affliction
which a loss so much to be regretted must have oc-
casioned, both to him and to them.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
iieptemifer 29.

(renilemen of the Senate:

Having been yesterday informed by a joint
committee of both Houses of Congress that they had
agreed to a recess, to commence this day, and to
continue until the first Monday of January next, I
take the earliest opportunity of acquainting you,
that, considering how long and laborious this ses-
sion has been, and the reasons which, I presume,
have produced this resolution, it does not appear to
me expedient to recommend any measures to their
consideration at present, or now to call your atten-
tion, gentlemen, to any of those matters in my de-
partment which require your advice and consent,
and yet remain to be despatched.

GEO. WASHINGTON.
September^, 1789.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House had
concurred in all the amendments to the bill
to recognise and adapt to the constitution of
the United States the establishment of the
troops raised under the resolves of the United
States in Congress assembled, and for other
purposes therein mentioned, except the seventh,
to which they had disagreed.

The Senate proceeded to consider their
seventh amendment disagreed to by the House
of Representatives on the bill to recognise and
adapt to the constitution of the United States
the establishment of the troops raised under the

resolves of the United States in Congress as-
sembled, and for other purposes therein men-
tioned; and, '

BeMbedf To inust on the said seventh amend-
ment.

Ordered* That the Secretary do acquaint the
House of Representatives herewith.

The Senate proceeded to the third reading of
the bill to ain>w the Baron de Glaubeck the
pay of a captain in the army of tlie United
States.

Meaohedf That this bill do pass.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of
Representatives had passed the following re-
solve, to which the concurrence of the Senate
was requested:

Ordered^ That it shall be the duty of the
Secretary of the Senate and Clerk of the House.
at the end of each session, to send a printed
copy of the journals thereof, respectively, to
the supreme Executives and to each branch of
the Legislature of every State; it also informed
the Senate that the House of Representatives
had receded from their disagreement to the
seventh amendment of the Senate to a bill to
recognise and adapt to the constitution of the
United States the establishment of the troops
raised under the resolves of the United States
in Congress assembled, and for other purposes
therein mentioned; and that the House had
passed the bill to allow the Baron de Glaubeck
the pay of a captain in the army of the United
States.

The Senate proceeded to consider the last
recited order of the House of Representatives.

Reaohed, That the Senate do concur therein.

A message from the House of Representa-
tives informed the Senate that the House of
Representatives had finished the business of
the session, and were ready to adjourn, agreea-
bly to the order of the two Houses of Congress.

The Senate entered on executive business.

They confirmed the appointment of William
Carmichael, as Charg^ ues Afiaires from the
United States of America to the court of Spain;
and, also, a number of officers of the army;
which nominations differ from the existing ar-
rangement only in the following cases, to wit:

Lieutenant Erkuries Beatty promoted to a
vacant captaincy in the infantry; Ensign Ed-
ward Spear promoted to a vacant lieutenantcy
of artillery; Jacob Melcher, who has been
serving as a volunteer, to be an ensign, vice
Benjamin Lawrence, who was appointed near-
ly three years past, and has never been mus-
tered or joined the troops; which were all con-
firmed.

The business of the session being brought to
a close, the Vice President, agreeably to the re-
solve of the two Houses on the 26th instant,
adjourned the Senate to the first Mondav in
Januarv next« then to meet at the City Hall in
New York.

BISTORT

THE PROCEEDINGS AND DEBATES

THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

OF THE

UNITED STATES,

AT THS FIRST SESSION OF THE FIRST CONGRESS, BEGt7N AT THE CITT OF

NEW YORK, MARCH 4, 1789.

VTedmssdat, March 4, 1789.

This being the dav fixed for the meetini^ of
Ihe aew Congress, the following members of the
House of Representatives appeared and took
their seats, viz:

From Maaanchuaelis^ George Thatcher,
FuuKR Ames, George Leonard, and Elbridoe
Gerrt.

Drom Connecticut^ Benjamin Huntington,
Jonathan Trumbull, and Jeremiah Wads-
worth.

From Pennsylvania^ Frederick Augustus
Muhlenberg, Thomas Hartley,Pet£r Muh-
lenberg, and Daniel Heistrr.

From Virginia^ Alexander White.

From South Carolina^ Thomas Tudor Tuck-
er.

A quorum of the members not being present,
the House adjourned until to-morrow at eleven
o'clock.

Thursday, March 6.

Several other members attended, viz: from
New Hampshire, Nicholas Gilman; from Mas-
aachuselts, Benjamin Goodhue; from Con-
DecticQf, Roger Sherman and Jonathan Stur-
BM8;Mad from Pennsylvania, Henry Wynkoop;
aod no other members arriving, a quorum nut
bein^ present, the House adjourned, from day
to djy, until the 14th instant.

Saturday, March 14.

The following members took their seats, to
wH: James Madison, junior, John Page, and
Richard Bland Lee, from Virginia.

A quorum not being yet present i the House
■djoomed, from day to day, until the 17th in-
stant

W*£DNE8DAY, March 18.

Andrew Moore, from Virginia, took his seat.
No other member appearing, the House ad-
journed, from day to day, until the 93d instants

Monday, March 33.

The following members appeared, to wit: —
From New Jersey, KliasBoudinot; and from
Maryland, William Smith.
No additional member appeared on the S4th.

Wednf^day, March 25.

Jonathan Parker, from Virginia, appeared
and took his seat.

No additional member arrived until the 80th
instant.

TiTRSDAY, March 17.
Samubl Griffin, from Virginia, took his seat.

Monday, March 30.

George Gale, from Maryland, and Treo-
DoRioR Bland, from Virginia, appealed and
took their seats.

No additional member on the Slst instant

Wednesday, April 1.

Two other members appeared, to wit: James
ScHUREMAN, from New Jersey, and^ Thomas
Scott, from Pennslyvania, who funiiin^ a quo-
rum of the whole bacly, it was, oa motion:

Betolvedy That this House will proceed to the
ohoice of a Speaker by ballot. *

The House accordingly proceeded to ballot
for a Speaker, when it was found that a major-
ity of the votes were in favor of Frederick Au-
gustus Muhlenberg, one of the Representa-
tives from Pennsylvania. Whereupon, Mr.
Muhlenberg was c(»nducted to the chair, from
whence he made his acknowldgmentsfto the
House for so distinguished an honor.

The House then proceeded in the same man-
ner to the appointment of a Clerk, when it was
found that Mr. John Reck let ws^s elected.

101

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

102

H. or R.]

Proceedings.

[April, 1789.

On motion,
Ordered^ That the members do severally de-
liver in their credentials at the Clerk's table.

Thursday, April 3.

Lambert Cadwalader, from New Jersey,
appeared and took his seat.
On motion,

Ordered, That a committee be appointed to
prepare and report such standing rules and
orders of proceeding as may be proper to be
observed in this House. And the following
members were named on said committee, to
wit: Messrs. Oilman, Gerry, Wadsworth,
BouDiNOT, Hartley, Smith, Lee, Tucker,
Madison, SHERMANt and Goodhue.

Besohed, That a door keeper and assistant door-
keeper be appointed for the service of this House.
.On motion,

Ordered, That it be an instruction to the
committee appointed to prepare and report such
standing rules and orders of proceeding as
may be proper to be observed in this House,
that they also report the duty and services of a
serjeant-at-arms, or other proper officer for
enforcing the orders of the House.

Friday, April 3.
George Clymer, from Pennsylvania, appear-
ed and took his seat.

Saturday, Apnl 1.

George Partridge, from Massachusetts, ap-
peared and took his s^at.

The House proceeded to the election of a
doorkeeper, and assistant doorkeeper; when
Giflbrd Dudley was chosen to the former, and
Thomas Claxton to the latter office.

Monday, April G.

Daniel Carroll, from Maryland, appeared
and took his seat.

Ordered^ That leave be given to bring in a
bill to regulate the taking the oath or affirmation
prescribed by the sixth article of the Constitu-
tion; and that Messrs. White, Madison, Trum-
bull, Oilman, and Cadwalader, do prepare
and luring in the same.
On motion,

Resolved, That the form of the oath to be taken
i>y the members of this House, as required by the
third clause of tlie sixth article of the Constitution of
Government of the United States, be as followeth, to
«« wit: «*I, A B, a Representative of the United States in
**\he Congress thereof, do solemnly swear (or affirm,
'<as the case may be) in the presence of Almij^hty
«« GOD, that I will support the Constitution of the
«* United States. So help me God."

A message from the Senate, by Mr. Ells-
worth:

Mr, Speaker: 1 am charged by the Senate to in-
form this House, that a quorum of the Senate is now
V formed; that a President is elected for the sole pur

pose of opening the certificates and counting the
votes of the electors of the several States, in the
choice of a President and Vice Presideut of the
United States; and that the Senate is now ready in
the Senate chamber, to proceed, in presence of this
House, to discharge that duty. I have it also in
further charge to inform this House that the Sen-
ate has appointed one of its members to sit at the
Clerk's table to make a list of the votes as they fehall
be declared, submitting it to the wisdom of this
House to appoint one or more of its members for the
like purpose.

On motion,

Reaohed, That Mr. Speaker, attended by the
House, do now withdraw to the Senate chamber, for
the purpose expressed in the message from the Sen-
ate; and that Mr. Pakkkk and Mr. Hsistsh be ap-
pointed, on the part of this House, to sit at the clerk's
tabl^ with the member of the Senate, and make a
list of the votes as the same shall be declared.

Mr. Speaker accordingly left the chair, and,
attended by the House, withdrew to the Senate
chamber, and after some time returned to the
House.

Mr. Speaker resumed the chair.

Mr. Parker and Mr. HEisTERtheu delivered
in at the Clerk's table a list of the votes of the
electors of the several States in the choice of a
President and Vice President of the United
States, as the same were declared by the Pre-
sident of the Senate, in the presence of the Sen-
ate and of this House, which was ordered to
be entered on the Journal. *

On motion,

Ordered^ That a message be sent to the Sen-
ate, to inform them that it is the desire of this
flouse that the notifications of the election of
the President and Vice President of the United
States should be made by such persons, and in
such manner, as the Senate shall be pleased to
direct; and that Mr. Madison do communicate
the said message.

Tuesday* April 7.

The Speaker laid befora the House a letter
from the Mayor of the city of New York, cover-
ing certain resolutions of the Mayor, Aldermen,
and Commonalty of the said city, appropriating
the Citv Hall for the accommodation of the
General Government of the United States^
which were read, and ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. BouDiNOT, from the committee appoint-
ed to prepare such rules and orders of proceed-
ing as may be proper to be observeii in this
House, made the following report: — .

^*Tlie committee to whom it was referred
to prepare such standing rules and orders of
proceeding as may be proper to be observed in
this House, have, accord in to order, prepared
the same, and agreed to the following report:

Jiesolved, That it is the opinion of this committee
that the nUes and orders following are proper to be

* For this list set th« Senate Journal.

lOS

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

104

Apui., 1789.]

Proceedings*

[H. OF R.

estftbfiahed as the standing rules and orders of this
House, to wit:

\,^-Touchxng the duty qf the Speaker.

He shall take the chair every day at the hour to
which the House shall have adjourned on the pre-
ccffing' day; shall immediately call the members to
order, and, on the appearance of a quorum, shall
cause the journal of the preceding day to be read.

He shall presenre decorum and order) may speak
to points of order in preference to other membera,
rising from his seat for that purpose, and shall de-
dde questions of order, subject to an appeal to the
House by any two members.

He shall rise to put a question, but may state it
sitting'.

Questions shall be distinctly put in this form, viz :
"As many as are of opinion that — (as the question
may be) say Aye:" And, after the affirmative voice
is expressed — ** As many as are of a contrary opinion,
say No."

If the Speaker doubts, or a division be called for,
the House shall divide; those in the affirmative go-
ing to the right, and those in the negative to the led
of the chair. If the Speaker still doubt, or a count
be required, the Speaker shall name two members,
one from each side, to tell the numbers in the af-
firmatiTe; which being reported, he shall then name
two others, one from each side, to tell those in the
negative; which being also reported, he shall rise
sad state the decision to the House.

The Speaker shall appoint committees, unless it
be determined by the House that the committee
diall consist of more than three members, in which
case the appointment shall be by ballot of the House.

In all cases of ballot by the House, the Speaker
shall vote; in other cases he shall not vote, unless
the House be equally divided, or unless his vote, if
given to the minority, will make the division equal,
and in case of such equal division, the question shall
be lost.

IVhen the House adjourns, the members shall
keep their seats until the Speaker go forth) and
then the members shall follow.

II. — Qf Decortim and Debate,

when any member is about to speak in debate,
or deliver any matter to the House, he shall rise
from his seat, and respectfully address himself to
Mr. Speaker.

If any member, in speaking or otherwise, trans-
gress the rules of the House, the Speaker bhall, or
any member may, call to order; in which ctise the
member called to order shall immediately sit down,
unless permitted to explain, and the House shall, if
appealed to, deci«1e on the case, but witliout de-
bate. If there be no appeal, the decision of the
Chair shall he submitted to. If the decision be in
&Tor of the member called to order, he shall be at
fiberty to proceed; if otherwise, and the case require
it, be shall be liable to the censure of the House.

When two or more members happen to rise at
once, the Speaker shall name the member who is
first to speak.

No member shall speak more than twice to the
same question, without leave of the House; nor pnore
than once, until every member choosing to speak
sbsUharespokan.

Whilst the Speaker is putting any question, or
addressing the House, none shall walk out of or
across the House; nor either in such case, or when
a member is speaking, shall entertain private dis-
coui'se, or reaid any printed book or paper; nor
whilst a member is speaking, shall pass between him
and the chair.

No member shall vote on any question, in the
event of which he is immediately and particularly
interested; or in any other case where he was not
present when the question was put.

Every member who shall be in the House when a
question is put, shall vote on the one side or the
other, unless the House, for special reasons^ shall
excuse him.

When a motion is made and seconded, it shall be
stated by the Speaker; or, beuig in writing, it shall
be handed to the Chair, and read aloud by the Clerk
before debated.

Rveiy motion shall be reduced to writing, if the
Speaker or any member desire it.

After a motion is stated by the Speaker, or read
by the Clerk, it shall be deemed to be in possession
of the House, but may be withdrawn at any time be-
fore a decision or amendment.

When a question is under debate, no motion shall
be received, unless to amend it, to commit it for
the previous question, or to adjourn.

A motion to adjourn shall be always in order, and
shall be decided without debate.

The previous question shall be in this form:
Shall the main' question be now put?" It shall only
be admitted when demanded by five members; and»
until it is decided, shall preclude all amendment and
further debate of the main question.

On a previous question no member shall speak
more than once without leave.

Any member may call for the diviuon of a ques-
tion, where the sense will admit of it.

A motion for commitment, until it is decided,
shall preclude all amendment of the main question.

Motions and reports may be committed at the
pleasure of the House.

No new motion or proposition shall be admitted,
under color of amendment, as a substitute for the
motion or proposition under debate.

Committees consisting of more than three mem-
bers shall be ballotted for by the House; if, upon
such ballot, the number required shall not be elect-
ed by a majority of the votes g^ven, the House shall
proceed to a second ballot, in which a plurality of
votes shall prevail; and in case a greater number
than are required to compose or complete tlie com-
mittee shall have an equal number of votes, the
House shall proceed to a further ballot or ballots.

In all other cases of ballot than for committees,
a majority of the votes given shall be necessary to
an election; and where there shall not be such ma-
jority on the first ballot, the ballot shall be repeate.d
until a majority be obtained.

In all cases where others than members of the
House may be eligible, there shall be a previous
nomination.

If a question depending be lost by adjournment
of the House, and revived on the succeeding day,
no member who has spoken twice on the day pre-
ceding shall be permitted again to speak without
Icava.

105

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

106

H. or R..]

Proceedings.

[April, 1789.

Evety order, resolution, or vote, to which the
concurrence of the Senate shall be necessary, shall
be read to the House, and laid on the table, on a
day preceding that in which the same shall be mov-
ed, unless tl)e House shall otherwise expressly allow.

Petitions, memorials, and other papers addressed
to the House, shall be presented throug'h the Speak-
er, or by a member in his place, and shall not be
debated or decided on the day of their first being
read, unless where the House shall direct other-
wise; but shall lie on the table, to be taken up in the
order they were read.

Any fifteen members (including the Speaker, if
there be one,} shall be authorized to compel the at-
tendance of absent members.

Upon calls of the House, or in taking the ayes
and noes on any question, the names of the mem-
bers shall be called alphabetically.

ilL^O/Biiis.

Every bill shall be introduced by motion for leave,
or by an order of the House on the report of a com-
mittee; and, in either case* a committee to prepare
the same shall be appointed. In cases of a general
nature, one day's notice, at least, shall be given of
the motion to bring in a bill; and every such motion
may be committed.

Every bill shall receive three several readings in
the House previous to its passage; and all bills shall
be despatched in order as they were introduced,
unless where the House shall direct otherwise; but
no bill shall be twice read on the same day without
special order of the House.

The first reading of a bill shall be for information,
and, if opposition be made to it, the question shall
be, •• Shall the bill be rejected?" If no opposition
be made, or the question to reject be negatived, the
bill shall go to its second reading witliout a question.

Upon the second reading of a bill, the Speaker
■hall state it as ready for commitment or engross-
ment, and, if committed, then a question shall be
whether to a Select Committee, or to a Committee
of the whole House; if to a Committee of the whole
House, the House shall determine on what day.
But if the bill be ordered to be engrossed, the
House shall appoint a day when it shall be read the
third time. After commitment, and a report thereof
to the House, a bill may be re-committed, or at any
time before its passage.

All bills ordered to be eng^ssed shall be execut-
ed in a fair round hand.

The enacting style of bills shall be, *« Be it enad-
ed by the Senators and Rtpresmtaiives of the United
States in Congresa aasemblai."

When a l)in shall pass, it shall be certified by the
Clerk, noting the day of its passing at the foot thereof

No bill amended by the Senate shall be committed.

IV.— (y Committees of the whole House.

It shall be a standing order of the day, through-
out the session, for the House to resolve itself into a
Committee of the whole House on the state of tlie
Union.

In forming a Committee of the whole House, the
Speaker shall leave his chair, and a Chairman to
preKde in committee shall be appointed.

Upon bills committed to a Committee of the
whole House, the bill shall be first read throughout

by the Clerk, and then again read and debated by
clauses, leaving the preamble to be last considered.
The boily of tne bill shall not be defaced or inter-
lined; but all amendments, noting the page and
line, shall be duly entered by the Clerk, on a sepa-
rate paper, as the same shall be agreed to by the
committee, and so reported to the House. After
report, the bill shall again be subject to be debated
and amended by clauses, before a question to en-
gross it be taken.

All amendments made to an original motion in
committee shall be incorporated with the nft>tion»
and so reported.

All amendments made to a report committed to a
Committee of vhe Whole, shall be noted and report-
ed as in the case of bills.

All questions, whether in committee or in the
House, shall be propounded in the order they were
moved, except that, in filling up blanks, the largest
sum and longest day shall be first put.

The rules of proceeding in the House shall be ob-
served in committee, so far as they may be applicar
ble, except that limiting the times of speaking."

On motion «

Ordered^ That the Chief Justice of the S(ate
of New York be requested to attend this House,
at the hour of its meeting to-morrow, for the
purpose of administering to the Speaker, and
other members of the House, the oath required
by the constitution, in the form agreed to yes-
terday.

And then (he House adjourned until to-mor-
row morning, eleven o'clock.

Wednesday, April 8.

Two other members, to wit: Jno. Lawrenok,
fri>m New York, and Thomas Fitzmmoks, from
Pennsylvania, appeared and took their seats.

The Chiet Justice of the State of New York
attended, agreeably to the ortler of yesterday,
and administered the oath required by the
constitution, in the form agreed to on Monday
last, first to Mr. Speaker in his place, and then
to the other members of the House present, to
wit: Fisher Ames, Klias Boudinot, Themlorick
Bland, Lambert Cadwalader, George Clymer,
Daniel Carroll, Thomas Fitzsimons, Nicholas
Oilman, Benjamin Goodhue,*Elbridge Gerry,
George Gale, Samuel Griffin, Benjamin Hun-
tington, Thomas Hartley, Daniel Heister,
George Leonard, Richard Bland Lee, John
Lawrence, Peter Muhlenberg, James Madison,
Jun., Andrew Moore, George Partridge, John
Page, Josiah Parker, Jonathan Sturges, Rojger
Sherman, James Schureman, William Smith,
Thomas Scott, Georxe Thatcher, Thomas Tu-
dor Tucker, Henry Wynkoop, and Alexander
White.

DUTIES ON LM POSTS.

On motion, the House resolved itself into a
Committee of the Whole on the state of the
Union, Mr. Page in the chair.

Mr. Madison. I take the liberty, Mr. Chair-
maoj at this early, stage of the business, to in*

107

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

108

April 9, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. CF R.

traduce to the committee a subject, which ap-
pears to me to be of the greatest magnitude;
a subject, sir, that requires our first attention,
and our united exertions.

No gentleman here can be unacqtiainted with
the numerous claims upon our justice; nnr with
the im|>otency which prevented the late Con-
gress of the United States from carrying into
effect the dictates of gratitude and policy.

The union, by the establishment of a more
effective government, having recovered from the
state of imbecility that heretofore prevented a
performance of its duty, ought, in its first act,
to revive those principles ot nonor and honesty
(hat have too long lain dormant.

The deficiency in our Treasury has been too
notorious to make it necessary for me to ani-
madvert upon that subject. Let us content
ourselves with endeavonng to remedy the evil.
To do tiiis a national revenue must be obtained;
but the system must be such a one, that, while
it secni-es {\\e object of revenue, it shall not be
oppressive to our constituents. Ilappy it is for
us that such a system is within our power; for
I apprehend that both these objects may be ob-
tained from an impost on articles imported in-
to the United States.

In pursuing this measure, I know that two
points occur for our consideration. The first
respects the general regulation of commerce;
which, in my opinion, ought to be as h^^ as the
policy of nations will admit. Tlie second re-
lates to revenue alone; and this is the point 1
mean more particularly to bring into the view of
the committee.

Not being at present possessed of sufficient
materials for fully elucidating these points, and
our situation admitting of no delay, I shall pro-
pose such articles of regulations only as are
likely to occasion the least difficulty.

Tlie propositions made on this subject by Con-
gi^as in 1783, having received, generally, the
apprtibation of the several States of the Union,
in some form or other, seem well calculated to
become the basis of| the temporary system, which
1 wish the committee to adopt. I am well
aware that the changes which have taken place
ia many of the States, and in our public cir-
cumstances, since that period, will require, in
some degree, a deviation from the scale of du-
ties then affixed: nevertheless, for the sake of
that expedition which is necessary, in order to
embrace the spring importations, I should re-
commend a genera/ adherence to the plan.

This, sir, with the addition of a clause or two
00 the subject of tonnage, I will now read, and,
with leave, submit it to the committee, hoping it
may meet their approbation, as an expedient ren-
dered eligible by the urgent occasion there is for
the speedy supplies of the federal treasury, and a
speedy rescue of our trade from its present an-
archy.

Baohfedf As the opinion of this committee, that the
folloni'ng duties oug'ht to be levied on goods, wares,
sTid merchandise, imported into the United States, viz:

On rum, per gallon, of a dollar; on all

other spirituous liquors : on molasses ;

on Macleira wine ;on all other wines ;

on common bohea teas per lb. ; on all other

teas ; on pepper ; on brown sugars ;

on loaf sugars jon all other sugars ;on

cocoa and coffee on all other articles per

cent, on their value at the time and place of im-
portation.

That there ou^t, moreover, to be levied on
all vessels in which goods, wares^ or merchan-
dises shall be imported, the duties following,
viz. On all vessels built within the United
States, and belonging wholly to citizens thereof,
at the rate of per ton.

On all vessels belonging wholly to the subjects
of Powers with whom the United States have
formed treaties, or partly to the subjects of such
Powers, and partly to citizens of the said States,
at the rate of

On all vessels belonging wholly or in part to
the subjects of other Powers, at the rate of

Mr. BoiTDiNOT. — The necessity of adopting
some measure, like the one proposed by the
honorable gentleman from Vir^iinia, is too ap-
parent to need any argument in its support. The
plan which he has siibmitted to the committee
appears to be simple and suflliciently complete
for the present purpose; I shall, therefore, for
my own^art, be content with it, and shall move
you, sir, that the blanks be nlled up in the
manner they were recommended to be charged
by Congress in 1763. My reason for this is,
that those sums have been approved by the Le-
gislatures of every State represented on this
floor, and of consequence must have been
ajgreeable to the sense of our constituents at that
time; and, I believe, nothing since has inter-
vened to give us reason to believe they have
made an alteration in their sentiments.

Mr. White. — I wish filling tip the blanks may
be deferred until the business is more matured;
nor will this be attended with a loss of time,
because the forms necessary to complete a bill
will require so much as to give gentlemen let-
sure to consider the proper quantum of impost
to be laid, as well on the enumerated articles as
on the common mass of merchandise rated ad
valorem; for, as was hinted by my colleague,
something may have occurred to render an al-
teration in the sums recommended in 1783 in
some degree necessary; and if so, time will be
given to consider the subject with more atten-
tion in the progress of the bill, and no unneces-
sary delay can arise; wherefore, I move you, sir,
that the committee now rise, report progress,
and ask leave to sit again. ,

Mr. Madison. — I do not consider it at this
moment necessary to fill up the blanks^ nor had
1 it in contemplation at the time I offered the
propositions. I supposed that most of the gen-
tlemen would wish time to think upon the ptin-
ciples generally, and upon the articles particu-
larly; while others, who, from their situation and
advantages in life, are more conversant on this

109

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

110

H. OF R.]

Ditties an Imports.

[April 9, 1789.

subject, roay be induced to turn their particu-
lar attention to a subject they are well able to
do justice to, and to assist the committee with
their knowledge and information: unless such
gentlemen are now prepared anu disposed to
proceed in filling up the blanks, 1 shall second
the motion for the committee's rising.

IVlr. Parker. — As it is impossible that gentle-
inen should be prepared to go into the imme-
diate discussion of my worthy colleague's mo-
tion for raising an impost, I shall heartily con-
cur in the motion for the committee's rising.

The question on rising being put, was agreed
to; when,

Mr. Speaker resumed the chair, and Mr.
Page reported progress.

Adjourned until to-morrow.

Thursday, April 9.

EoBERi* Benson, from New York, and Isaac
Coles, from Virginia, appeared and took their
seats.

Mr. BovDiNOT, from the committee appoint-
ed to prepare rules for the government of the
House, made a further report; which, being
read, was ordered to lie on the table.

Mr. Leonard and Mr. Wynkoop asked
and obtained leave of absence.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter
from Oliver Ellsworth, Esq. a member of
the Senate, stating the appointment of a com-
mittee of that House to confer with a com-
mittee to be appointed on the part of this
House, in preparing a system of rules to govern
the two Houses in cases of conference, and to
regulftte the appointment of Chaplains.

Whereupon, Messrs. Boudinot, Sherman,
Tvcker, Madison, and Bland, were elected
by ballot for that purpose.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a com-
mittee of the^vhole on the State of the Union,
Mr. Page in the Chair.

Mr. Lawrence.-— The subject of the propo-
sition laid before the committee by the honora-
ble gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madison,)
will now, I presume, Mr. Chairman, recur for
our deliberation. I imagine it to be of consider-
able importance, not only to the United States,
but to every individual of the Union. The
object of the revenue alone would place it
in this situation, and in this light I mean now
to consider it. I f I am not mistaken, the honor-
able mover of the plan viewed it as a temporary
system, particularly calculated to embrace the
spring importations; therefore, in order to dis-
cover whether the mode laid before you is well
calculated to answer this end, it will be proper
to consider Its operation. The plan consists
j^ J*'" distinct propositions; one part is in-
tended to lay a specific sum on enumerated
articles, the other a certain per cent, ad valorem :
perhaps simplifying the system may be pro-

ductive of happy consequences, and H strike*
me that confusion and perplexity will be best
avoided by such a measure; hence, it may be
pnTper to fay a duty at a certain rate per cent,
on the value of all articles, without attempting
an enumeration of any; because, if we attempt
to specify every article, it will expose us to a
question which must require more time than
can be spared^ to obtain the object that appears
to be in the view of the committee.. • A ques-
tion, I say, sir, will arise, whether the enume-
ration embraces every article that will bear a
duty, and whether the duty to be aflBxed is the
proper sum the article is able to bear. On this
head, sir, I believe that the committee have not
materials suflicient to form even the basis of
the system, beside being wholly incompetent to*
determine the rate most advantageous to the
article of revenue, and most agreeable to the
interest and convenience of our constituents.
Knowledge on these points can only be obtain-
ed by experience; but hitherto we have had
none, at least of a general nature. The partial
regulations made by the States, throw but little
lignt on the subject, and its magnitude ought
to induce us to use the greatest degree of
caution.

A system of the nature which I hinted at,
will, in my opinion, be not only less complex
and difficult in its formation, but likewise easier
and more certain in its operation; because the
more sinipfe a plan of revenue is, the easier it
becomes undei-stood and executed: and it is^
sir, an earnest wish of mine, that all our acts
should partake of this nature. Moreover, by
adopting the plan I have mentioned, you will
embrace the spring importation and give time
Jor digesting and maturing one upon more per-
fect principles; and, as the proposed system is
intended to be but a temporary one, that I
esteem to be best which requires the least time
to form it.

With great deference I have submitted these
sentiments to the committee, as what occurred
to me to be the better plan of the two; though,
I must own, it is a subject on which I am not so
fully informed as I wish to be, and therefore
hope the indulgence of the committee in con-
sidering it.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS.— I observe, Mr. Chairman,
by what the gentlemen have said, who have
spoken on the subject before you, that the pro-
posed plan of revenue is viewed by them as a
temporary system, to be continued only until
proper materials are brought forward and ar-
ranged in more perfect form. I confess, sir,
that I carry my views on this subject much
further; that I earnestly wish such a one
which, in its operation, will be some' way ade-
quate to our present situation, as it respects
our agriculture, our manufactures, and our
commerce.

An honorable gentleman (Mr. Lawrence)
has expressed an opinion that an enumeration
of articles will operate to confuse the business-

Ill

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

112

April 9, 1789.]

Dulles on Imports.

[H. ofR.

So far am f from seeing it in this point of view,
(hat<, uii the contrary, 1 conceive it will ten<l to
lacilitate \U Does not every gentleman dis-
cover that, when a particular article is oflfered
to the consideration of the committee, he will
be t>ettcr able to give his opinion upon it than
«n an aggregate question? Because the partial
and convenient impost laid on such article by
individual States is more or less known to
«very member in the committee. It is also
well known tliat the amount of such revenue is
more accurately calculated and better to be
leHeil on, because of the certainty of collec-
tion, less being left to the officers employed in
bringing it forward to the public treasury. It
being my opinion that an enumeration of articles
will teirn to clear away difticulties, I wish as
many to be selected a« possible; for this reason
J have prepared myself with an additional num-
ber, which 1 wish subjoined to those already
mentioned in the motion on your table; among
these are some calculated to encourage the
prmluctions of our countiy^ and protect our
infant manufactures; besides otliers tending to
operate as :>umptuary restrictions upon articles
M hi'ch are often termed those of luxury. The
amendment I mean to oflfer is in these words:
I shall read it in my place, and, if I am second -
e<L, band it to you for the consideration of the
committee,

Buofoedt As the Qpiiiioji of this committee, that
the following duties ought to be laid on goods,
v&res, and merchandise inported into the 'United
States, to wit:

[The articles enumerated for duty wei*e beer,
ale, and porter; beef, pork, butter, candles,
cheese, soap, cider, boots, steel, cables, cor-
dage, twine or pack thread, malt, nails, spikes,
tacks, ur brads; salt, tobacco, snuff, blank
bfwks, writing, printing, and wrapping paper;
pasteboard, cabinet ware; buttons; saddles;
gloves^ hats, millinery, castings of iron, slit, or
rolled iron; leather, shoes, slippers, and golo
>hoes| coach, chariot, and other four wheel
carriages; chaise, solo, or other two wheel car-
riages; nutmegs, cinnamon, cloves, raisins,
figs, currants^ almonds.]

This motion was seconded by Mr. SciiimE-

MAN.

Mr. Whitb.— I shall not preteml to soy that
there otight not to be specific duties laid upon
every one of the articles enumeratefl in the
amendment just offered; but, I am inclined to
think, fhat entering so minutely into the de-
tail, will consume too much oi our time, and
thereby lose us a greater sum than the addi-
tional impost on the last mentioned articles
will bring in; because there may be doubts
whether many of them are capable of bearing
an incre'afied duty; but this, sir, is not the <:ase
with those meationed in the motion of my col-
leagues for I believe it will be readily admitted
on all sides, that such articles as mm, wines,
.tod sugar, have the capacity of bearing an ad-
ditional duty besides a per cent ad valorem.

His system appears to be simple, and its prin-
ciples, I conceive, are such as gentlemen are
agreed upon, conseouently a bill founded there-
upon would pass this House in a few days;
the operation of the law would commence
early, and the treasury be furnished with mo-
ney to ansvver the demands upon it. This law
would continue until mature deliberation, am-
ple discussion, and full information, enabled us
to complete a perfect system of revenue: for,
in order to charge specified articles of manu-
facture, so as to encourage our domestic ones,
it will be necessary to examine the present
state of each throughout the Union. This will
certainly be a work of labor and time, and wiH
perhaps require more of each than the commit-
tee have now in their power. Let as, "fliere-
fore, act upon the principles which are admit-
ted, and take in the most material and pro-
ductive articles, leaving to a period of more
leisure and information a plan to embrace the
whole.

Mr. TuoKER. — In common with the other
gentlemen on this floor, I consider the sul^ject
which engages our present deliberations as of
very great importance as it relates to otrr agri-
culture, manufactures, and commerce; I also
consider it of consequence that we should give
full satisfaction to our constituents by our de-
cision, be that whatever it may; and 1 ^ink
this most likely to be effected by establishinjs a
permanent regulation, although, in the interim,
a temporary system may be expedient. I wish,
also, m the outset of this business, to attend to
the interests of eveiy part of the Union; this,
I take it, can only be done by collecting the
opinion of the members from the several Stotes.
At present, I look upon it as impracticable, be-
cause the representation from tne States is not
upon an equal footing; we ought to have a much
fuller House than we have before we enter on
the subject in its fullest extent. By looking
around me, I perceive there is no representa-
tive, except myself], southward of Vin^nia;
and whatever my opinion may be with respect
to the propositions before you, I must own that
I wish to be acquainted with that of my col-
leagues; besides, I acknowledge myself incom-
petent to decide at this time on a subject of
such magnitude; but, even if I had moi'e com-
petency, I should hesitate, without I could
consult with the members whose interests' are
inseparable from that part of the Union which
I have the honor to represent

I was in hopes, sir, that every thing which
the committee had in contemplation would be
sccui'ed by possessing a general impost, whilst
a fuller consideration of the subject might be
deferred to a future day, when the committee
would have more leisure and information to
enable them to determine and digest a plan ca-
pable of giving more general satisfaction.

I have no objection, sir, to go so far into the
matter as to pass a law to collect an impost ad
valorem, whilst it is understood to be but a
temporary system; and likewise to laj a dutjr

lis

GALES .& SEATON'S HISTORY

114

H. OF R.}

Duties on Imports.

[April 9, 1789^.

on sach enumerated articles uf importation as
have t>een heretofore considered as proper ones
by the Congress of 1783. So far, sir, the mat-
ter may be plain to us, and we run no hazard
of doing any thing which ma^ give dissatisfac-
tion to any State in the Union. The duties
proposed by the Congress of 1783 were, I be-
lieve, five per cent, on the value of all goods
imported, and an aiUIitional duty on a few enu-
merated articles. This recommendation of
Congress has been so universally received bv
the several States, that I think we run no risk
ef giving umbrage to any by adopting the plan;
but the other articles, which have just been of-
fered»are, I apprehend, to many ot us so novel,
and, at the same time, so important, as to make
it hard to determine the propriety of taxing
theui in a few hours, or even in a few days.

I wish, with the honorable gentleman from
New York, that the system we now adopt be
considered as a temporary one, securing a duty
only upon such articles of importation as are
generally agreed to be proper^ and, on this ac-
count, I wish tlie article of tonnase, mentioned
in the first listof propositions, to be postponed;
because,, with respect to it^ the different States
are not upon an equal footing. It appears evi-
dently to bear harder upon some States than
upon others. In some they wish a high duty
upon tonnage, even so high as to preclude the
admission of foreign vessels altogether,, having
sufficient to carry on their whole trade within
themselves. Others again wish more moderate
duties, inasmuch as it may be convenient to
employ foreign shipping ia their commerce;
whitst some others wish only such duty to be
laid as to answer the sole purpose of revenue,
being constrained,, for want of vcssefs of their
own^ to employ foreigners in the transportation
of their productions, which productions must
eventually pay every charge of this nature.

I do not, sir, at this time, wish to enter into
the merits of this subject; but just to state what
I conceive to he the views and interests of the
several States^ in order that gentlemen may
judge how far it would be prudent at thisi time
to take a decisive step in matters so replete
with difficulty as we see this to be, in reconcil-
ing the various and adverse interests of the
Union^especiairy when it is considered that the
vote ot the committee^ if carried into execution,
will not place the Eastern and Soulliern States
upon an equal footing.

In order to preserve the peace ami tranquility
of the Union,, it wilt become necessary that mu-
tual deference and accommodation should take
place on suluects so important as tiie one I liave
first touched upon. And, in- order that this
may take place*, it is proper that gentlemen de-
liver their sentiments with freedom and candoi*.
I have done this ui a manner which I conceived
it my duty to do^ and sliall just repeat that I
wisli to confine the question to tliat part of the
motlort made by the lv>norablc gentleman from
Virginia, (Mr* Madison) wliich respects laying
a general impost on the value of all goods im-

ported, ami the small enumeratiim which pre-
cedes it: if it is in contemplation to do other-
wise, I shall be under the necessity of moving
for a division of the question:. If 1 should lost;
this, and a high tonnage duty be insisted on, i
shall be obliged to vote a^inst tlie measure al-
together; when, if the business is conducted oi»
principles of moderation, 1 shall give my vote
for it to a certain degree.

Where different interests prevail, it is to be
supposed adverse sentiments will arise, and the
gentlemen from those States which are interest-
eil in having a high tonnage duly laid on foreigu
shipping will naturally be more favorably in-
clined to a correspomling measure, than those
from other States whose interest it would be to
have little or no duty at all. Hence all that
can be expected, is such a degree of accommo-
dation as to insure the greatest degree of general
good^ with the least possible evil to tl^ indi-
viduals of the political community.

M r. Hartley. — The business before the House
is certainly of very great importance, and wor-
thy of strict attention. I ha-ve observed, sir,.
from the conversation of tlie members^ that it i»
in the contemplation of some to enter on this^
business in a liiiMted and partial manneivas it
relates to revenue alone; but, for my own part^
I wish to do it on as broad a bottom as is at this-
time practicable. The observations of the hon-
orable gentleman from South Carolina, (Mr-
Tucker) may have weight in some future stage
of the business, for the article of tonnage will
not probably be determineil for several days^
before which time his eolleagtici^ may arrive
and be consulted >n the manner he wishesf but
surely no argument, derived from tliat princi-
ple, can operate to discourage the committee
from taking such iiK'asurcs as will teml to pro-
tect and promote our domestic manu^ictures.

If we consult the history of the ancient world ,.
we shall see that tliey luive thought proper, foi*
a long time past, to give great encot^ragement
to the establishment of manufactures, by tayin<;
such pa4*tialtluties on the importatitm ot foreigiV
gomts, as to give the home manufactures a con-
siderable advantage in the price when brought
to Ruirket. It is also well known to this com-
mittee, that there are many articles tJKU will
bear a higher duty than others, which ftre to re-
main in the common mass, and be taxed witli
a certain impost ad valorem. From this view
of the subject, I think it both politic and* jui<t
that the fostering hand of the General Govern-
ment sliould extend toa 11 those manufactures*
which will tend to national utility. I am there-
fore sorry that gentlemen seem to fix their mind
to so early a period as 1783f fin- we very well
know our circumstances arc much cKanged
since that time: we had then but few manulac-
turcs among Uf;, and the vast quantities of g»)oiis^
that flowed in upon us from liurope,. at the coii-
clu.sioji of the wai', rendered tlwse few almost
useless; since then we have been forced by ne-
cessity, and various other eauAes, to increase^
oar domestic luanafaclures to such a degree as.

1J5

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

116

April 9, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. ofR.

to be able to furnish some in sufficient quantity
to answer the consumption of the whole Union,
while others are dail J growing into importance.
Oar stock of materials is, in many instances,
equal to the greatest demand, and our artisans
sufficient to work them up even for exportation.
In. these cases, I take it to be the policy of every
enlightened nation to give their manufactures
that degree of encouragement necessary to per-
fect them, without oppressing the other parts of
the community; and under this encouragement,
the industry of the manufacturer will be em-
ployed to aud to the we?.lth of the nation.

Many of the articles in the list proposed by
my worthy colleague will have this tendency:
and therefore I wish them to be received and
considered by the committee; if sufficient infor-
mation cannot t>e obtained, as to the circum-
stances of any particular manufacture, so as to
enable the committee to determine a proper de-
gree of encouragenient, it may be relinquished;
but at present it will, perhaps, be most advisa-
ble to receive the whole.

Mr. Madison. — From what has been suggest-
ed by the gentlemen that have spoken on the
sub/ect before us, I am led to apprehend we
shall t>e under the necessity of travelling fur-
ther into an investigation of principles than
what I supposed would be necessary, or had in
contemplation when I offered the propositions
before you.

It was iiiy view to restrain the first essay on
this subject principally to the object of revenue,
and make this rather a temporary expedient
than any thing permanent. I see, however, that
there are strong exceptions against deciding im-
mediately on a part of the plan, which ihad
the honor to bring forward, as well as against
an application to the resources mentioned in
the list of articles just proposed by the gentle-
man from Pennsylvania.

I presume, that, however much we may be
disposed to promote domestic manufactures,
we ought to pay some regard to the present po-
licy ot obtaining revenue. It may be remarked
also, that by fixing on a temporary expedient
for (his purpose, we may g;ain more than we
hhall lose by suspending tlie consideration of
the other subject until we obtain fuller infor-
mation of the state of our manufactures. Wc
have at this time the strongest motives for turn-
ing our attention to the point I have mentioned;
every gentleman sees that the prospect of our
harvest from the spring importations is daily
vanishing; and if the committee delay levying
and collecting an impost until a system of pro-
tecting duties shall be perfected, there will be
no importations of any consequence (m which
the law is to operate, because, b^ that time, all
the spring vessels will have arrived. There-
fore, from a pursuit of this policy, we shall
safier a loss equal to the surplus which might
l>e expected from a system of higher duties.

I am sensible that there is great weight in the
observation that fell from the honorable gentle-
man from South Carolina, (Mr. Tuckeu)

that it will be necessary, on the one hand, to
weigh and regard the sentiments of the gentle-
men from the diiTereiit parts of the United
States; but, on the other hand, we must limit
our consideration on this head, and, notwith-
standing all the deference and respect we pay
to those sentiments, we must consider the gen-
eral interest of the Union; for this is as much
every gentleman's duty to consider as is the
locafor State interest— and any system of im-
post that this committee may adopt must be
founded on the principles of mutual concession.

Gentlemen will be pleased to recollect, that
those parts of the Union which contribute more
under one system than the other, are also those
parts more thinly planted, and c6nsequently
stand most in need of national protection;
therefore they will have less reason to complain
of unequal burthens.

There is another consideration; the States
that are most ad\7inced in population, and ripe
for manufactures, ought to nave their particular
interests attended to in some degree. While
these States retained the power of making re-
gulations of trade, they had the power to pro-
tect and cherish such institutions; by adopting
the present constitution, they have thrown the
exercise of this power into other hands: they
must have done this with an expectation that
those interests would not be neglected here.

I am afiaid, sir, on the one hand, that if we
go fully into a discussion of the subject, we
shall consume more time than prudence would
dictate to spare; on the other hand, if we do
not develope it, and see the principles on which
wc mutually act, we shall subject ourselves to
great difficulties. I bo§ leave, therefore, to
state the grounds on which my opinion, with
respect to the matter under consideration, is
founded, namely, whether our present system
should be a temporary or a permanent one? In
the fii*st place, I own myself the friend toa vety
free system of commerce, and hold it as a truth,
that commercial shackles are generally unjust,
oppressive, and impolitic; itisalsoa truth, that
it industry and labor are left to take their own
course, they will generally be directed to those
objects which are the most productive, and this
in a more certain and direct manner than the
wisdom of the most enlightened legislature could
point out. Nor do I think that the national in-
terest is more promoted by such restrictions,
than that the interest of individuals would be
promoted by legislative interference directing
the particular application of its industry. For
example, we should find no advantage in say-
ing, that every man should be obliged to furnish
himself, by his own labor, with those accommo-
dations which depend on the mechanic arts, in-
stead of employing his neighbor, who could do
it for him on better terms. It would be of no
advantage to the shoemaker to make his own
clothes, to save the expense of the tailor's bill,
nor of the tailor to make his own shoes, to save
the expense of procuring them from the shoe-
maker. It would be better policy to suffer each

J 17

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

118

H.ofR.]

Duties on Imports.

[Apkil 9, 1789.

of them to employ his talents in his own way.
The case is tiie same between the exercise of the
arts and agriculture — between the city and the
country — and between city and town; each ca-
pable of making particular articles in abun-
dance to supply the other: thus all are benefit-
ed by exchange, and the less this exchange is
cramped by government, the greater are the
proportions of benefit to each. The same argu-
ment holds good between nation and nation,
and between parts of the same nation.

In my opinion, it would be proper also for
gentlemen to consider the means of encourag-
ing the great staple of America. I mean agri-
culture; which 1 think may justly be styled the
staple of the United States, from the spontane-
ous productions which nature furnishes, and the
manifest advantage it has over every other ob-
ject of emolument in this country. If we com-
pare the cheapness of our land with that of
other nations, we see so decided an advantage
in that cheapness, as to have full confidence of
being unrivalled. With respect to the object of
manufactures, other countries may and do rival
us; but we may be said to have a monopoly in
agriculture; the possession of (he soil, and the
lowness of its price, give us as much a monopo<
ly in this case, as any nation or other parts of
the world have in the monopoly of any article
whatever; but, with this advantage to us, that
it cannot be shared nor injured by rivalship.

If my general principle is a good one, that
commerce ought to be free, and labor and in-
dustry left at large to find its proper object, the
only thing which remains will be to discover
the exceptions that do not come within the rule
1 have laid down. I agree with the gentleman
from Pennsylvania, that there are exceptions,
important in themselves, and which claim the
particular attention of the committee. Although
the freedom of commerce would be advantage-
ous to the world, yet, in some particulars, one
nation might sufier to benefit others, and this
ought to be for the general good of society.

if America was to leave her ports perfectly
free, and make no discrimination between ves-
sels owned by her citizens and those owned by
foreigners, while other nations make this dis-
crimination, it is obvious that such policy would
£0 to exclude American shipping altogether
from foreign ports, and she would be materially
iiffected in one of her most important interests.
To this we may add another considerati(»n, that
by encouraging the means of transporting our
productions with facility, we encourage the
raising them: and this object, I apprehend, is
likely to be kept in view by the General Go-
vernment.

Duties laid on imported articles may have an
effect which comes within the idea ot national
prudence. It may happen that materials for
manufactures may grow up without any en-
couragement for this purpose; it has been the
case in some of the States, but in others, regu-
lations have been provided, and have succeed-
ed in producing some establishments, which

ought not to be allowed to perish, from the al-
teration which has taken place: it w;ould be
cruel to neglect them and divert their industry
to other channels: for it is not possible for the
hand of man to shift from one employment to
another, without being injured by the change.
There may be some manufactures, which, being
oiice formed, can advance towards perfection
without any adventitious aid, while others, for
want of the fostering hand of government, will
be unable to go on at all. Legislative attention
will therefore be necessary to collect the pro-
per objects for this purpose, and this will torm
another exception to my general princi|)le.

I observe that a sumptuary prohibition is
within the view of some of the proposed articles,
and forms anotlier exception. I acknowledge
that [ do not, in general, think any great na-
tional advantage arises from restrictions passed
on this head, because, as long as a distinction
in point of value subsists, sumptuary duties, in
some form or other, will prevail and take effect.

Another exception is, embargoes in time of
war. These may necessarily occur and shackle
the freedom of commerce; but the reasons for
this are so obvious, that it renders any remark
unnecessary.

The next exception that occurs, is one on
which great stress is laid by some well inform-
ed men, and this with great plausibility. That
each nation should have withinitself the means
of defence, independent of foreign supplies:
that in whatever relates to the operations of
war, no State ought to depend upon a precarious
supply from any part of the world. There may
be some truth in this remark, and therefore it
is proper for legislative attention. I am, though,
well persuaded that the reasoning on this sub-
ject has been carried too far. The difficiilties
we experienced a few years ago, of obtaining
niilitary supplies, ought not to furnish too much
in favor of an establishment which would be
difficult and expensive; because our national
character is now established and recognized
throughout the world, and the laws of war favor
national exertion more than intestine commo-
tion, so that there is good reason to believe that
when it becomes necessary, we may obtain sup-
plies from abroad as readily as anv other nation
whatsoevei*. I have mentioned this, because I
think I see something among the enumerated
articles that seems to favor such a policy.

The impost laid on trade for the purpose of
obtaining revenue may likewise be considered
as an exception; so far, therefore, as revenue
can be more conveniently and certainly raised
by this than any other method, without injury
to the community, and its operation will be in
due proportion to the consumption, which con-
sumption is generally proportioned to the cir-
cumstances of^individuals, 1 think sound policy
dictates to use this mean; hut it will be neces-
sary to confine our attention at this time pecu-
liarly to the object of revenue, because the
other subject involves some intricate questions,
to unravel which we perhaps are not prepared.

119

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

120

April 11, 1789.1

Duliea on Imports.

[H; of R.

I bare do objection to the committee's accept-
ing the propositions oflTered by the gentleman
from Pennsylvania, because so far as we can
enumerate the proper objects, and apply speci-
fic duties to them, we conform to the practice
prevalent iu many of the States, and auopt the
most laudable method of collecting revenue; at
least preferable to laying a general tax. Whe-
ther, therefore, we consult ease and conveni*
ence in collection, or pursuing habits already
adopted and approved, specific duties, as far as
the articles can t)e properly enumerated, is the
most elijgible mode of obtaining the end in con-
templation, l/pon the whole, as I think some
of the propositions may be productive of reve-
nue, and some may protect our domestic manu-
factures, though the latter subject ought not to
be too confusedly blended with the former, I
hope the committee will receive them, and let
them lie over, in order that we majr have time
to consider how far they are consistent with
justice and policy.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — I believe that it will not be
disputed, that the best and easiest way of sup-
plying the public wants, is by raising a revenue
on the impoiiation of goods by way of impost,
though the manner in which it should be done,
I confess, is a subject o» which I stand greatly
in need of information. I should, therefore,
must cordially comply with the request of the
gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Tucker)
m order to obtain time for consideration, and
to wait the arrival of the absent gentlemen, in
order that we may have that assistance which
is to be derived from them. Did I consider the
question on the present motion final, I should
be at a loss how to act; but this, I take it, is not
the case. I presume it is intended by the mover
onljr to lay his motion on the table, with the
orJgiDal propositions open for debate and con-
sideration, till the committee are possessed of
Mifiicient information to proceed. I also confess,
that, in general, I am in favor of specific duties
on enumerated articles. I shall therefore vote
fur the amendment; but, in doing this, I shall
not consider myself as bound to support the
whole, nor, indeed, any particular article which,
upon due consideration, I may deem either im-
politic or unjust; for I cannot conceive, that,
by adopting the amendment, we tie up our
hands, or prevent future discussion. No. sir,
that is not the case; and as I trust we all nave
the same object in view, namely, the public
good of the United States, so 1 hope that a
willing ear will be lent to every proposition
likely to promote this end; nor do I doubt but
gentlemen are mutually inclined to sacrifice
local advantages for the accomplishment of this
great purpose-

1 confess, sir, that I do not consider myself
master of the subject, and shall therefore wait
for information from those gentlemen who are
best able to give it. I think we are much in-
debted to the gentleman from Pennsylvania for
going so (iir into the subject as his list of arti-
cles shows he has done; but I would beg of him

to inform me, if there is any thing peculiar in
the manufacture of glass, as I observe it is
omitted in his enumeration^ if there is nothing
improper in adding this article, I shall certain-
ly move for it, as I suppose we are capable of
manufacturing this as well as many of the
others— in fact, it is well known that we have,
and can do it, as well as most nations, the ma-
terials being almost all produced in our coun-
try. If there is any thing improper in it, I hope
gentlemen will inform me; if there is not, I see
no reason against its being enumerated with the
others.

Mr, FiTzsiMONs.— I hope there will be no
difficulty in receiving the propositions I had the
honor to present. When we come to consider
them, article bv article, for the purpose of tax-
ing them, gentlemen will be at liberty to object;
and if they offer good reasons for it. they may
get them struck out; but this, I apprehend, can-
not so conveniently be done m the present state
of the business.

Mr. Madison. — I suppose that the reason
which induced the gentleman from Pennsylva-
nia to introduce the list of articles now before
us, is similar to the one which actuated me to
enumerate those in the first proposition, name-
ly, that they were capable, on tne principle of
policy, of bearing a higher duty than those left
m the common mass to be taxed ad valorem. If
gentlemen, on considering them, should think
any incapable of sustaining such addition, they
will be at liberty to move to have them struck
out and restorecf to the general mass of articles,
so that I see no very strong reason against re-
ceiving them for consideration.

The motion was put by the Chairman, and it
was agreed to add them to the first list of arti-
cles introduced by Mr. Madison.

On motion of Mr. Lee, the committee rose
and reported progress, and the House adjourned.

Friday, April 10.

The House met, but adjourned without doing
any business.

Saturday, April 11.

Mr. Smith (of Maryland) presented a peti-
tion from the tradesmen, manufacturers, and
others, of the town of Baltimore, which was
read, setting forth, That, since the close of the
late war, and the completion of the revolution,
they have observed with serious regret the manu-
facturing and the trading interest of the coun-
try rapidly declining, and the attempts of the
state Legislatures to remedy the evil failing of
their object; that, in the present melancholy
state of our country, the number of poor in-
creasing for want of employment, foreign debts
accuminating, houses and lands depreciating
in value, and trade and manufactures languish-
ing and expiring, they look up to the supreme
Legislature of the United vStafesas the guardians

121

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

122

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 11, 1789.

of (he whole empire, and from their united
wisdom and patriotism, and ardent love of their
country, expect to derive that aid and assis-
tance wtiich alone can dissipate their just ap-
prehensions, and animate them with hopes of
success in future, by imposing ou all foreign
articles, which can be made in America, such
duties as will give a just and decided pre-
ference to their labors; discountenancing that
trade which tends so materially to injure them
and impoverish their country; measures which,
in their consequences, may also contribute to
the discharge of the national debt and the due
support of Government: that they have annexed
a list of such articles as are or can be manufac-
tured amongst them, and humbly trust in the
wisdom of the Legislature to grant them, in com-
mon with the other mechanics and manufactu-
rers of the United States, that relief which may
appear proper.

Ordered^ That the said petition be referred to
the Committee of the wiiole on the state of the
Union.

Agreeably to the order of the day, the House
went into a Committee of the whole on the state
of the Union.

Mr. Lee. — The articles proposed for objects
of imposts again recur. I wish, therefore, that
the committee proceed to consider each separ-
ately; by this means we shall get through the
business with expedition and facility.

Mr. Goodhue. — I think when the original
motion was introduced, it was only intended as
a temporary expedient; but, from what has fall-
en from the gentlemen on this subject, I am
led to believe that idea is abandoned, and a per-
manent svstem is to be substituted in its place.
1 do not know that this is the best mode of the
two, but perhaps it may take no more time than
the other, if we apply ourselves with assiduity
to the task. As it does not appear that ail the
articles proper to bear an additional tax are yet
selected, and as I wish the list to be as complete
as possible, that the committee may have, in
one view, all that is intended on the occasion,
I shall beg to add — upon anchors for every 112
lb. ; upon every dozen wool cards; upon wrought
tin ware: upon every box of lemons; upon every
barrel of limes.

The committee agreed to add these articles
to the list.

Mr. Clymer submitted it to the considera-
tion of the committee, how far it was best to
bring propositions forward in this way. Not
that he objected to this mode of encouraging
manufactures and obtaining revenue, by com-
bining; the two objects in one bill. He was sa-
tisfied that a political necessity existed for both
the one and the other, and it would not be amiss
to do it in this way, but perhaps the business
would be more speedily accomplished by enter-
ing upon it systematically. It would be better
to appoint a sub-committee to collate the mate-
rials, and bring them before the House better
digested than they came now. He threw out
these sentiments for the consideration of the

committee, without any great degree of confi-
dence that they were right, or founded in strict
order.

Mr. Chairman- was of opinion that a motion
of the kind just mentioned would be out of or*
dcr, because a committee could not appoint an-
other committee; the House appoints all com-
mittees.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — lam sorry, Mr. Chairman,
to hear it su^s^^ested by any gentleman, that ihe
proposition I'or a temporary system of revenue
IS abandoned; it is not my sentiment that it
sliould be so. When I rise on a question of this
magnitude, and which, particularly from my
local circumstances, I may be considered inad-
equate to the discussion of, nothing ought to
be supposed to actuate me but a desire of ob-
taining information and performing my duty;
and when my sentiments differ from those of
well informed gentlemen, they will attribute it
to the true cause — the want of better infor-
mation, and not a wish to oppose; but the bet-
ter any measure is digested and understood, the
more likely we are to avoid partial ideas and
attend to what is most beneficial to the general
good. The subject in debate was originally
brought forward as a temporary expedient to
obtain revenue to support tiie exigencies of the
Union. It has been changed by successive mo-
tions for amendment; and the idea of a perma-
nent system, to embrace every object connect-
ed with commerce, manufactures, and revenue,
is now held up in its stead. I admit that the
accomplishment of what gentlemen have in
view is very desirable, and if we had time for
the necessary discussion, it ought immediatfdy
to engage the attention of the committee; but I
feel such a want of information and ability to
judge of the propriety of many articles already
enumerated, at the same time I think I discov-
er similar embarrassments in other gentlemen,
that makes me think the present moment is. in
some degree, improper lor deliberating, wlien
we have so little time to si^are. It appears to
me that this business of raising revenue, points
out two questions of great importance, demand-
ing mucn information. The first is, what ar-
ticles are proper objects of taxation, and the
probable aiTTount of revenue from each. The
second is, the proper mode of collectine the
money arising from this fund, when the object
and its amount are ascertained. There are
three sources from which we may gain informa-
tion on the first question, namely, from the re-
venue laws of the different States, tor I believe
a partial revenue has been raised almost in
every State by an impost. The second source
of information, and a very natural one, is the
great body of merchants spread throughout the
United States; this is a very respectable and
well informed body of our fellow-citizens, and
great deference ought to be paid to their com-
inunicatious — they are in a peculiar situation
under the present constitution, to which they
are generally esteemed sincere friends — they
are also more immediately interested in the

123

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

124

April 11, 1789.]

Dufiea on Imports.

[H. orR.

event of the proposed measure, than any olher
class of men. lo this Government they look
tor protection and support, and for such regu-
lations as are beneficial to commerce; for these
reasons,! think ihey deserve our confidence, and
we (m£ht to obtain from them such information
as wilfenable the Congress to proceed toagen-
€ral permanent system on more solid princi-
ples. 'J lie last source from nhich we are to
derive information is the Executives of the
States, stating the operation and production of
the differeiit revenue Jaws in the States respec-
tively, by which we can judge of the effect like-
ly to tic produced by the system we establish,
as well as the aggregate produce of a general
impost. This will also tend to prevent our bur-
thening the people at large with unteasoriable
duties, and cramping trade without an adequate
reason.

With resard to the second question, the
mode of collecting duty, I own I do not see
any information so satidfactory as I could wish.
When I recollect the numerous volumes of
taws made to secure and regulate this point, the
inefiicacy of them all, though accompanied with
the most terrible denunciations and penalties,
and the careful observing eye of long experienc-
ed officers — isay, when I recollect all this, and
consider it may be necessaiy for the United
States to adopt a similar plan, I own that I al-
most shrink from. the task as an extraordinary
work, requiring the most superior abilities.

Though there muy be some circumstances
vhich m.ly render the business more easy, such
as the virtue t>f the people and tlie inflexibility
■of the officers, yet there are also difficulties of
a superior magnitude tt> those encountered by
other nations. When we look at the bounda-
ries of the United States; when we contemplate
the proximity of the eastern territory and Brit-
ish provinces: when we turn to the northwest,
and obsei^ve Vermont leagued with Canada in
pouring in upon the interior country the manu-
factures of Britain; when we consider the na-
tural and political situation of Rhode Island,
and judge from the nefiirious pi'inciples which
they have lately held, and the vicinity of their
coast to the extensive shores of Coonecticut^and
LfOng Island, we shall have reason to apprehend
that she is ready to take every advantage of the
United States that lies in her power. When lob-
«erve the shores of New Jersey, Pennsylvania,
and Delaware; the wide stretched out chores of
Maryland and Virginia, with tlie waters of tlie
Chesapeake flowing between a winding course of
three hundred miles, penetratins, in this dis-
tance, six or seven times the borders of different
States; the coast of N^rth Carolina, not yet in
the Union; the borders of South Carolina an^
Georgia upon the Atlantic, with their numer-
ous inlets, altogether present such a group of
difficulties and embarrassments, as we cannot
remove in the little time we have, nor regulate
open the inftu-mation now before us. The in-
ference I would draw from this is, that we
should not precipitate a business which some of

us think the committee at this time incompe-
tent to; but it is not for me to desire that such
delay should take place — the State I have th^
honor to represent being altogether agricultural,
at best it partakes but little of the commerce
of the Union, thereftire we shall not be so ma-
terially injured by an improper regulation of
this subject, as those which derive greater ad-
vantages from commercial transactions.

There are gentlemen on this ffoor well calcu-
lated to represent the mercantile interests of
this country, and in whose integrity and abili-
ties I have the highest confidence; but it is the
duty of the members of this tHxIy to see that
the principles upon which we act, are those cal-
culated to promote the general good, and not
confined to the local interests of a few indivi-
duals, or even individual States, so that they
will decline trusting alone to this species of in-
formation, \ihen another is attainable.

1 am aware of an objection to this mode of
reasoning; it will be alleged that the pressing
necessities of the United States for revenue re-
quire immediate relief, and permit no delay.
This I admit, and it is this which makes me
prefer a temporary system for the present to a
permanent one. Let us take, then, the resolu-
tion of Congress, in 1783, as presented by the
honorable eentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Ma-
dison,) and make it the basis of our system,
adding only such protectiiig duties as are neces-
sary to support the manufactures established
by the Legislatures of the manufincturingStates.
Thus far we can go with safety, if we do not
descend into a minute enumeration; such arti-
cles as are readily admitted to deserve legisla-
tive encouragement, we may take into the list.

With regard to th^ collection of the revenue,
I would recommend that until a general plan
can be devised, officers should be appointed to
collect the impost and protecting duties, in the
manner, and under the penalties, directed by
the laws of the proper State. It may be said
that there are some States which have no reve-
nue laws of this kind, and, consequently, no
officers to execute them; I would, in every such
case, sul^ect them to the laws of the next ad-
joining State. By adopting a plan upon these
principles, we shall gain time sufficient to ob-
tain full information in the manner I have point-
ed out, and also reap the harvest of the spring
importations; the latter of these objects, I ap-
prehend, will be totally lost by any other sys-
tem that has yet been suggested.

Whatever permanent system we may de-
vise ought to be calculated to give efficacy to
trade, while it gives supplies to our treasury.
This cannot be done weil, if done speedily;
while, on the other hand^ we might ^et a tem-

gorary one framed against the arrival of the
'resident, withoutirgury to commerce or manu-
factures, and greatly to the interest of the
Union.

If any gentleman thinks as I do^he will se-
cond me in moving, that the committee rise wad
report as their opinion, the appointment of a

125

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

126

H. ofU.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 13, 1789.

committee for the purpose of framing such a
temporary law.

Mr. Bland hoped the committee would not
rise, but as it had become a question whether
the impost system should be permanent or tem-
porary, he was inclined to favor any motion that
should be made to ascertain that point, and
was of opinion with the worthy member who
spoke last, that the committee had not sufficient
materiats to enable them to erect a permanent
one at this time. He^ however, wished the gen-
tleman to withdraw his motion for the present,
until this point was ascertained; and ne con-
ceived this moreover to be necessary, because
many gentlemen would be guided in voting the
quantum of duty upon each article, by knowing
whether the system was intended to be continu-
ed for a longer or a shorter period.

Mr. Lee was of opinion with Mr. Bland,
and seconded his motion for taking the sense of
the House on the question proposed.

Mr. FrrzsiMONs thought it best to make the
system as perfect as possible before the com-
mittee determined its duration.

A desultory conversation took place on the
rising of the committee and on Mr. Bland's
motion, during which it was remarked bv

Mr. Madison, that the subject whicn was
under consideration divided itself, as had been
observed by the honorable gentleman from Jer-
sey, into two partsf and hence he concluded
that they might very properly be provided for
by two separate bills: ana while the committee
of the whole are selecting articles and taxing
them^ another committee can be employed in
devising the mode of collection. This method he
thought more likely to reconcile the opinions of
the committee than any he had heard suggested.

At length the question was taken on Mr»Bou-
dinot's motion for tlie committee to rise, and
determined in the negative..

The committee proceeded to Mr. Bland's
motion,, which being withdrawn,.

Mr. Madison observed, that it was impos-
sible, from the peculiar situation of Congress,
that the subject of revenue could be enter-ed
upon methodically, otherwise he should expect
gentlemen prepared with documents stating the
national wants, and national resources,, and by
the one prove the necessity of the other; but
thoush the probable amount of a tax on enume-
rated articles and tonnage could not now be
come at, he trusted in future that it would,.and
in the interim he recommended gentlemen to
exert themselves in giving and procuring in-
formation, in order to get some sjrstem formed
as speedily as possible. With a view to this, he
moved,, when, the committee rose» they sl>ould
report as the opinion of the committee of the
whole tliat a committee be appointed for the
purpose of preparing a bill to regulate the mode
of collecting duties on imports and tonnage.
Then the committee could be ready with a mil
on this part of the subject, by the time the com-
mittee of the whole had gone through the article.

This motion was adopted by the committee.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs agreed with the gentleman
from Virginia, that the leading considerations
in the business were the necessities and want»
of the Union, and the best means of relieving,
them. No gentleman objected to the mode of im-
post; he therefore was led to believe that it was
an eligible mode. The necessities of the state,
including the instalments and interests of the
foreign and domestic debt, and the current ex-
penses of the Goveriimeht, lie thought might re-
quire annually (to use a round sum) about three-
millions of dollars. This sum he then looked
upon as necessary to be raised in the present
session. As gentlemen seemed to agree a larse
sum should be obtained by impost, they wouk^
consequently be ready to vote for as high duties
as could be collected, without sacriticing the
commercial or agricultural interests of the coun-
try. This consideration he hoped would be
settled in the minds of the members before they
proceeded to fill up the blanks annexed to the
particular articles. It will no doubt be ob-
served, that a duty on some articles will press-
unequally upon particular States; now all that
can be done to equalize them is, to burtheii
others again which enter into the consumption-
of the other States, with a duty which shaU
make thein sustain a uniform proportion oC
the whole system.

Mr. Sherman gave it as his opinion,^ that ii)
fixing the duties on particular articles, if they
could not ascertain tne exact quantum, it would
be better to run the risk of erring in setting,
low duties than high ones, because it was less
injurious to commerce to raise them ttian to-
lower them; but nevertheless, he was for laying
on duties which some gentlemen might think
high', as he thought it better to derive revenue
from impost than from direct taxation, or any
other method in their power. He moved tliat
the article of rum should be chaiged with fifteer>
cents per gallon — he used tiie lerm cents be-
cause it was a denomination of national coin^
fixed by the late Congress, ten of wJiich make
a dime and ten dimes one dollar.

Mr. Smith was apprehensive fifteen cent»
would be too high, and therefore moved tei>
cents, which he thought would raise more reve-
nue than the other.

Mr. Madison advised and moved for the
rising of tlie committee, in order to give gentle-
men time to make up their minds respecting
the quantum of impost to be laid on each article .

The question on rising was put and carried^
whereupon the committee rose, and reported
the resolution oftered by Mr. Madison; and a.
committee was appointed in conformity thereto..

Adjourned till Monday.

Monday, April 13:

William Floyd, from New York; Thomas-
SiNNicKsoN, fronv New Jersey; Joshua Skney,,
from Maryland; Edanus Burke, Daniel Hu-
OER, and WiLUAM Smith^ from South Caroli-
na, appei^ed and took their seats^

127

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS-

128

April 14, 1789.]

Utiles qf Proceeding,

[H. OF R.

On motion.
Ordered^ Inat Mr. Benson, Mr. Pkter
MrHLEKBUKo, and Mr. Griffin, be a commit-
tee to consider of and report to the House re-
specting the ceremonial ol* receiving the Presi-
dent, and that they be authorized to confer
with a committee of the Senate for the purpose.

The House proceeded to consider the report
from the committee appointed to prepare such
farther rules and orders of proceeding as may
be proper to be observed in this House, which
lay on the table; and the said report was read,
and is as followeth:

Betohed, That it is the opinion of this committee
that the rules- and orders following oug^ht to be es-
tablished as additional standing rules and orders of
this House, to wit:

1. That any member may excuse himself from
serving^ on any committee, at the time of his appoint-
ment, if he is then a member of two other com-
jDittees.

2. That no member absent himself from the ser-
vice of the House, unless he have leave, or be sick
^nd unable to attend.

3. Upon a call of the House, for which at least
one day's notice shall be requisite, tlie names of the
members shall be called over by the Clerk, and the
absentees noted, after which the names of the ab-
sentees shall be again called over; the doors shall
then be shut, and those for whom no excuses, or in-
sufficient excuses, are made, may, by order of the
House, be taken into custody.

4. It shall be the office and duty of a 8ergt:ant-at-
Arms to attend the House during its sitting, to exe-
cnte the commands of the House, from time to time,
and all sach process, issued by authority thereof, as
shall be directed to him by the Speaker, and eitlier
by himself, or special messengers appointed by him,
to take and detain in his custody members or other
persons ordered by the House to be taken or com-
mitted.

5. A proper symbol of office shall be provided for
the Sergeant-at-Arms, of such form and device as
the Speaker shall direct, which shall be placed on
the Clerk's table during the sitting of the House;
but when the House is in committee, shall be placed
onder the table. The Sergeant-at-Arms shall, more-
over, always bear the said symbol when executing
the immediate commands of the House, during its
sattiog, returning the same to the Clerk's table when
the serFJce is performed.

6. Eveiy member, or other person, ordered into

custody, shall pay to the Sergeant-at-Arms for

erexy arrest, and -^— for each day's custody and
releasement; also per mile, for travelling ex-
penses, going and returning, unless the payment
thereof shall be remitted by the House.

7. A standing Committee of Elections shall be
appointed, to consist of seven members; it shall be
the duty of the said committee to examine and re-
port upon the certificates of election, or other cre-
dentials of the members returned to serve in this
House, and to take into their consideration all such
matters as shall or may come in question, and be re-
ferred to them by the House, touching returns and
elections, and to report their proceedings, with their
opiittoo thereupon, to the House.

8. The Clerk of the House shall take an oath for
the true and faithful discharge of the duties of his
office, to the best of his knowledge and abilities.

Heaolvedf That it is the opinion of this committee,
that joint rules ought to be established between the
two Houses, to provide for the mode of communi-
cating messages, of holding and conducting confei^
ences, and all otlier cases of proceeding requiring
previous mutual agreement."

The first resolution being read a second time,
and debated by paragraphs, the first, second,
third, seventh, and eighth clauses were, on
the question put thereupon, agreed to by this
House.

The fourth, fifth, and sixth clauses were
severally read a second time, and ordered to
be recommitted to the same committee.

The second resolution was read a second
time, and ordered to lie on the table.

On motion, the House proceeded to ballot for
a standing Committee of Elections.

The members elected, Messrs. Clymse,
Am£s« Benson, Carroll, White, Hunting-
TON, and Oilman.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter
irom the Hon. John Langdon, a member of
the Senate, communicating an instruction to a
committee of that House, to report if anv, and
what, arrangements are necessary for the re-
ception of the Vice President, which was read.

Ordered^ That the said letter be referred to
the committee appointed to consider of, and
report to the House, respecting the ceremonial
of receiving the President; and that it be an
instruction to the said committee to report
upon the said letter also.

A petition of the shipwrights of the city of
Charleston, in the State of South Carolina, was
presented to the House and read, stating the
distress they are in from the decline ol that
branch of business, and the present situation of
the trade of the United States, and praying that
the wisdom and policy of the National Legisla-
ture may be directed to such measures, in a
general regulation of trade, and the establish-
ment of a proper navigation act, as will tend to
relieve the particular distresses of the petition-
ers, and, in common with them, those of their
fellow shipwrights throughout the United
States.

Ordered^ That the said petition be referred
to the Committee of the whole House on the
state of the Union.

Tuesday, April 14.

Mr. White presented, according to order, a
bill to regulate the taking the oath or affirma-
tion prescribed by the sixth article of the con-
stitution; which was received and read the first
time.

Mr. BouDiNOT reported, from the committee
to whom was recommitted certain clauses
of the report for establishing additional rules
and orders of proceeding to be observed in this
House, that the committee had, according to
order, reconsidered the same, and agreed to a

129

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

130

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 14, 1789.

report thereupon, which he deliverad in at the
Clerk's table, where the same was twice read,
the blanks therein filled up, and, on a question
put thereupon, agreed to by the House as t'ol-
loweth:

** Reaohedr That il is the opinioii of this commit-
tecy that the rules and orders following ought to be
esUblishedy as additional standing rules and orders
of this House, to wit:

A Sergeant-at-Arms shall be appointed, to hold
his office during the pleasure of the House, whose
duty it shall be to attend the House during its sit-
ting, to execute the commands of the House fmm
time to time, and all such pn)cess, issued by autho-
rity thereof, as sludl be directed to him by the
Sfbakkr.

A proper symbol of office shall be provided for
the Sergeant-at-Arms, of such form and device as
the Sfeakbr shall direct, which shall be borne by
the Sergeant when in tlve execution of his office.

The fees of the Sergeant-nt-Arms ihall he, for
every arrest the sum of two dollars; for each day's
custody and releaseroent, one dollar; and for travel-
ling expenses, going and returning, one-tenth of a
dollar per mile."

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the state of the Union;
Mr. Page in the Chnir.

Mr. Bland, from Virginia, thought the com-
mittee not prepared to enter on the business of
impost in the accurate manner which the I'orni
of the propositions seemetl to imply. No gen-
tleman on the floor could be more desirous than
he was to go into the measure of a permanent
system; but he could not agree to proceed at
this time, for want of information. When he
looked at the list of articles, he saw some cal-
culated to give encouragement to home manu-
factures. This might be in some degree proper;
but it was a well known fact, that the manu-
facturing arts in America were only in their in •
fancy, and far from being able to answer the
demands of the country; then certainly you lay
a tax up<m the whole community, in order to
put this money in the pockets of a few, when-
ever you burthen the importation with a heavy
imoost. He was likewise apprehensive that the
federal treasury would lose a considerable sup-
ply, if the necessary time was taken to perfect
a permanent system; he therefore wished a tem-
porary one, and made a motion to obtain the
sense of the committee on this point, as well as
on the mode of collection.

He adverted to the subject of tonnage, ob-
serving that it was well known that America
did not furnish a number of ships sufficient for
the transportation of its products; therefore any
high duty on this article would embarrass the
agriculture, which, as his colleague had before
observed, was the staple of the country.

Mr. Scott. — The subject before us naturally
divides itself into two heads. Fir:jt, what ar-
ticles shall be the subject of a particular tax,
and what shall remain in the common mass lia-
ble to an impost ad valorem? The second, what

the sum is that is proper for the article we se-
lect? For both these points will be necessar]^^
because it can hardly be sup|>osed that all arti-
cles can be enumerated, while some certainly
ought. This being the case, it leads us to in*
quire what rule or principle shall be laid down
in order to make a proper discrimination; for
surely some reason should be assigned for this
distinction. I presume the particular articfe
which is to be subjected to an extraordinary
duty must either come at so cheap a rate, ac-
cording to its intrinsic value, as to bear a great-
er impost without being unreasonably expen-
sive, or it must be one which we do nut stand
in need of at all, and only used for the pur()os-
es of luxury. If an article does not come with-
in one of these descriptions, I see no reason
why it should be taxed in an extraordinary
maimer.

My present design, therefore, is^ that the
committee should, in the management of this
business, c(mduct their motions in this way.
By treating it so, the work may be expedited
much more than it can by the vague and inde-
terminate manner of our procedure hitherto. I
would, therefore, recommend that each article
be taken up separately, and considered whether
it is a proper one for the committee to select or
not There may be some articles which ought
not to be selected, and I think I discover one
enumerated in the list before us, which, so far
from meriting a high duty, ought not to be tax-
ed at all; for these reasons, 1 hope the commit-
tee will proceed in the manner 1 have describ-
ed, and fairly give their sense on the propriety
of each article as it occurs.

Mr. Madison. — I apprehend, sir, that the mo-
tion made by my colleague (Mr. Blakd) is out
of order; not only because the committee have
determined to proceed in the business and fill
up the blanks, but because it would be one com-
mittee giving instruction to another; fiM- al-
though we are a committee of the whole House^
we cannot exercise the powers belonging to the
House, among which is that of instructing
committees. It surely is in the recollection of
every member, that a committee is appointed
upon the subject, which is in the view of the
gentleman's motion, namely, that for regulat-
mg and ascertaining the mode of collecting (he
impost I presume, therefore, that it any in-
structions are necessary to be given respecting
the discharge of the duty of the committee ap-
pointed to this business, they ought to come
Iroui the House. The motion, therefore, if it is
proper at all, is proper only before the House.

Mr. Bland ditl not wish to take up the time
of the committee in debating a question of order;
but he would just observe, that he looked upon
the committee alluded to by the gentleman last
up, as appuiiited on a different subject from that
he proposed to the consideration of the commit-
tee^ Thejr were appointed to devise and digest
a mode of collection adapted to a permanent
system of revenue, which the House, at a time
of more leisure» might complete; but the olj^ject

131

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

1S2

ApkilU, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. ofR.

lie had in contemplation was, for the committee
to agree to use a lens perfect one in the interim,
in order to embrace two or three hundred thou-
sand dollars arising from the spring importa-
tions, which he dreaded the loss of, if the busi-
ness was not soon completed. However, as the
motion was objected to as out of order^ he
would withdraw it for the present, and oiler it
to the House when the committee rose.

On motion of Mr. Gale, the word mm was
changed into distilled spirits of Jamaica proof.

Mr. Lawrence pniposed to lay twelve cents
on this article, saying, 1 believe, Mr. Chair*
man, it will be necessary to consider, when we
are ab<»ut to lay a duty on any article, how far
it is likely to be collected, especially if our main
object is to obtaip revenue bv our impost. 1
trust it does not require much illustration to
prove to the satisfaction of the committee, that
if you lay your duties too high, it will be a
temptation to smugj^ling; for, in the proportion
which that sum bears to the value of the arti-
cle, will be the risk run in every attempt to in-
troduce it in a clandestine manner, and, if this
temptation is made too strong, the article will
furnish no revenue. I believe, if the commit-
tee shall impose a duty of fifteen cents, as pro-
posed by the gentleman from Connecticut, (Mr.
Sherman] it will be so strong a temptation for
smusgling, that we shall lose our revenue alto-
eether, or be compelled to use a mmle of col-
lection probably diff'erent from whjt we have
been accusti>med to— a mode so expensive as
to absorb the whole produce of the tax.

I wish to lay as large a sum on this article as
good policy muy deem expedient; it is an arti-
cle of ^reat consumption, and though it cannot
be reckoned a necessary of life, yet it is in such
general use, that it may be expected to pay a
very considentble sum into your treasury, when
others may not with so much certainty be reli-
ed upon. But, when we consider the relative
proportion of the first cost of it, and the fifteen
cents duty, we shall find it about one third.
This, I cannot help thinking, is too high, as the
risk of a total loss may t)e ventured in order to
gave soereat a sum; it is surely a great tempta-
tion, and J dread its consequences on more ac-
counts than one.

Mr. FiT28iM<»Ns.-;-I shall trouble the commit-
tee with an observation or two, and then submit
to the members their choice of the sums, though
the propriety of the one or the other is of such
a nature, as not to t>e capable of complete de-
monstration. But it will be readily granted
me, that there is no object from which we can
c<»l|ect revenue, more proper to be subjected to
a high duty» than ardent spirits of every kind;
if we could lay the duty so high as to lessen the
consumption in any great degree, the better.
As the gentleman has just observed, it is not an
article of necessity, but of luxury, and a luxu-
ry of the most pernicious kind. Jt may be ob-
serveil, that lessening the consumption is not
the object which the committee have in view;
bat surely, from the conaiderationt I have men-

tioned, it is an article for us to draw ail possi-
ble revenue from. If it is a fact, that an in-
crease of three cents will so greatly increase
the temptation to smuggle as to make it una-
voidable, or increase the number of officers so
as to absorb the revenue, then they ought not
to be laid; but whether this wilt be occasioned
by so small a difference as (here is between
twelve and fifteen cents, can only be matter of
opinion, and to me it appears, that the provi-
sions necessary to secure the collectiim of the
one will be eilectual to secure the other; there-
fore I am in favor of the highest sum.

Mr. Madison.— I would tax this article with
as high a duty as can be collected, and J am
sure, if we judge from what we have heard and
seen in the several parts of the Union, that it
is the sense of the people of America tliat this
article should have a duty imposed upon it
weighty indeed. The duty proposed by the
gentleman from New York (Mr. Lawrence)
very little exceeds what is laid in this State,
and very little what is laid in some other States,
while some have thought it expedient to impose
an excise superior. 'Fhe question then is, whe-
ther the highest sum can be collected? I am of
opinion that higher duties may generally be col-
lected under the government of the Union than
could be under that of the particular States, be-
cause it has been the policy of some, not only
to decline gt»ing hand in hand tc^ether, but ac-
tual ly to oppose regulations made in a neigh-
boring State. Being persuaded, likewise, that
the highest sum will not exceed the power
of the law to enforce the collection of, 1 khall
vote for it.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS.— I shall observe further, sir,
that in Pennsylvania this article is charged with
an impost amounting to near three-mnetietha
«»f a dollar, and an excise in addition of eight-
ninetieths. This is collected from abimt eight
hundred thousand gallons, without any great
difficulty. The highest sum proposed to the
committee very little exceeds that collected in
Pennsylvania, anil 1 suppose that any mode
which will ensure the one, will enable us with
an equal degree of certainty to obtain the other.

Mr. BovDiNOT. — I ain iii favor of taxing this
article as high as there is a probability of col-
lecting the duty. 1 think our doing so will an-
swer two or three good purposes. J'he present
object of the committee is to raise a rei'enue,
and no article on the list before you is more
likely to be pnKJuctive than this one; buta hieh
duty may also discourage the use of ardent spi-
rits, if not, it may discourage the West Indies
from turning their molasses into rum. This
being the case, they have no other market for
molasses than this country, and our own distil-
leries, with the advantages arising therefrom,
will be able to rival theui in the manufacture of
that article; so far it may tend to the benefit of
the country. I conceive it mielit be proper, on
these accounts, to lay a much higher duty than
has been pmposed. were it not for the consider-
ations mentioned by the gentleman from New

133

GALES & SEATON^S HISTORY

134

H, OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 14, 1789.

York, that we run a risk of losing ail by grasp-
ing at too much.

Mr. Lawrence.— The sum proposed is higher
than the duty collected in this State, which is
about eight cents; 1 fear, tlierefore, that it can-
not be collected, it* we are to reason and act
as moralists on this point, 1 am certain it is the
wish of every member to prevent the use of ar-
dent spirits altogether, for their influence on
the moi-als of the people is of the most perni-
cious kind. Nor does the mischief terminate
here, as I appreliend it is equally; destructive to
the health; but we are not to deliberate and de-
termine on this subject as moralists, but as
politicians, and endeavor to draw (if 1 mny use
the expression) from the vices of mankind, that
revenue which our citizens must, in one form or
other, contribute. The question is, what shall be
the duty on any particular article? To accom-
plish this purpose, we must determine by the cir-
cumstances of that article. Now,if welay ahigh
duty on Jamaica rum, it is supposed it wdl pre-
vent the consumption; but then the purpose we
have in view is frustrated, either because we
cannot collect the tax, or the object of it is no
longer imported. The consequence in this lat-
ter case would be, that the morals of our citi-
zens are not impaired; yet it does not appear
to me that this consequence would certainly
flow from a system of high duties. 1 rather
fear it would lead no further than to set men on
schemes to evude the duty; and none of us are
ignorant of the ingenuity and invention which
can be exercised, when interest prompts man-
kind to an evasion of the law. We know
the situation of the different States; the coast
disposed by its prodigious extent to favur every
means of illicit trade. A cargo of rum could
be landed in Jersey, and the whole, reshipped
in small vessels, might soon be brought into
this ciiy. if this should be the effect of our
law, we have no other way to correct the oper-
ation, but by adopting a mode of collection
odiouh to all, on account of the numerous train
of officers it would require in its execution.
But there would also be a danger of vessels
running into creeks and small inlets, for the
purpose of landing their cargoes, as well as on
the sea-shore. Hence a necessity would arise
of employing a number of vessels to check and
correct such abuses, and the probable event
would be, that all the impost collected would
go to defray the expense of getting it into the
treasury.

Rum is an article of great consumption
throughout the Union. The State I have the
honor to represent has imported, from April,
1786, to April, 1787, a quantity exceeding eight
hundred and fifiy thousand gallons, of which
only sixty-seven thousand were exported; con-
sequently, the remainder has been consumed
among ourselves, and the people of that part
of New Jersey which draws its supplies from
this city. Now, it appears to me not improba-
ble that we shall lose a great deal of the reve-
nue, if we lay the duty so much higher than

heretofore. Being impressed with these senti-
ments, I must vote against the motion for fif-
teen cents.

Mr. BoimiNOT inquired of the gentleman
from New York, if rum was not also subject to
an excise in that State.

Mr. Lawrence. — There is no other duty than
what 1 have mentioned, which is permitted to
be drawn back on exportation.

Mr. Madison did not see how the importing
States could be injured by a high duty more
than the others, as all duties came into the fe-
deral treasury. He observed, that if Pennsyl-
vania had been able to collect with certainty a
duty amounting to ab<iut twelve cents, when
the two neighboring States not only declined
to co-operate, but pursued a counter interest,
there could be no doubt but so small an addi-
tion as three cents, laid to affect generally the
whole Union, might with equal certainty be
collected.

The committee now agreed to tax ardent spi-
rits, of Jamaica proof, fifteen cents; and all
other spirituous liquors twelve cents.

On filling up the blank on molasses:
Mr. MADisoN.-;-lt is agreed, I presume, that
spirits of every kind are proper objects of tax-
ation, but whether we shall tax spirits in the
case before us, or whether we shall tax the ar-
ticle from which it comes, is a question worthy
of the consiiV^ration ot the committee for sever-
al reasons. I believe it will be best to lay our
hands on the duty, by charging this article oa
its importation, to avoid a more disagreeable
measure. 1 would, therefore, lay such a duty
on molasses, as is proportioned to what we have
affixed upon rum, making an allowance in favor
of our own manufacture. 1 think eight cents
per gallon will allow a sufficient advantage to
them, but of this I am not positive, and, there-
fore, shall not pertinaciously adhere to that sum,
if it be thought too high; but I presume 1 am
right in the principle upon which i contend,
that we ought to collect the duty on the impor-
tation of molasses, in preference to any other
way.

Mr. Parker observed, that the distilleries
made a very great profit on the manufacture of
this article, and it would be increased by the
difference which was made- in duty between it
and AV est India rum. He was an advocate for
laying it on molasses, because he did not think
this a proper time to enter upon an excise law;
if the duty operated to discourage the consump-
tion of New England rum, he thought it would
have very happy consequences; he therefore
seconded the motion for eight cents.

Mr. Lawrence. — Shall we, Mr. Chairman,
tax articles which are necessaries of hfe.equai-
ly as if they were luxuries? I apprehend not.
in some parts of the United States, this article
is used as a necessaiy among the poorer clasa
of citizens; consequently, if you tax it high,
you unequally burthen that part of the comma-

135

OF rDEBATBS IN CONGRESS.

.136

i*«4<

April 14, 1789.]

Duiies on Imports.

[H. OF R.

nltj who are least able to bear it. When the
Cooj^ress of 1783 had it in contemplation to tax
this article, 1 believe they did not propose more
than ooe penny. Perhaps the change that
has taken place since that time would war-*
rant us to double that sum. For my part, I
should be willing to allow it, but the honorable
gentleman from Virginia proposes four times as
much as I judge to be proper. If it could be
collected, it would amount to a very large sum;
bat let us examine the probability there is of
being able to do it. When you compare the
tax with 'the price of the commodity, leaving
out the consideration of its being a necessa-
ry of life, you find it is one to three. I ask
gentlemen to tell me candidly, will not the pay-
ment of the duty be evaded.^ And shall we not
deceive ourselves in calculating upon a revenue
which we can never collect?

I believe, if 1 am well informed on this sub-
ject, the tax which I propose will amount to
about forty thousand dollars, so great is the im-
portation of thia article. By the tax the honor-
able gentleman proposes, it would amount to
one hundred and sixty thousand, which, I fear,
is more than can or ought to t>e collected.

This article, as was before observed, is a raw
material for manufacture, and which, when dis-
tilled, is exported in considerable quantities. If
a heavy duty is laid, will it not prevent the ex-
portation? But, should we even allow a draw-
back on what is exported, it will, nevertheless,
considerably encumber the trade by obliging
the merchant to advance much of his capital in
duties, and will still remain an oppression to
the poor, who consume it in substance.

Mr. Madison viewed the present question in
two points of light. First, as it respected the
use of the article in the substance; and second,
as it related to a manufacture of considerable
importance. If it was possible to make a dis-
crimination between them, he was ready to
agree to one in favor of the first class; but, con-
ceiving this to be impracticable, he thought the
que.^tion was reducible to this, whether our re-
venue should be lessened as much as distilled
spirits confessedly ought to pay, and our coun-
try, consequently, filled with a baser liquor, or
whetlier we shall tax an article which will indi-
rectly tax the rum manufactured from it in due
proportion to what is brought from the islands.
I do not conceive (continued Mr. Madison)
that the quantity of this article manufactured
and exported to foreign countries, is anywise
considerable, I find by an account of the ex-
ports of Massachusetts, (which appears to be
autheotic,] and it is a State that manufactures
in full proportion to any other State in the
Union, that there have been shipped oft' to dif-
ferent parts of this country 49,943 gallons of
mm manufactured (here; to Nova Scotia, 801
ollons; to EUirope, 1206; and to Africa and the
East Indies, 897 gallons.

So that the great exportation which the gen-
tleman from 5i'ew York mentions, is maae to
the dUSereat parts of the United States, and

not to foreign countries; the duty, therefore,
will be principally paid by our own citizens,
who are the consumers. The eentleman has
mentioned a drawback as a relief to the manu-
facturers. He does nut, perhaps, consider the
advantage which a general regulation of trade
gives to the State manufacturing rum. The ad-
mission of that commodity into every State is
perfectly free under the new constitution, and
unencumbered with the duties heretofore laid
by the State Legislatures; from which, it is man-
liest that a drawback, so far as rehttes to the
coasting trade, is unnecessary. I think, also,
that the small quantity exported to Europe
and Africa is too inconsiderable to justify the
Legislature in allowingdrawbacks, under which
system great frauds can easily be committed
upcm your revenue: to what purpose shall we
collect revenue, if it is put in tne power of every
individual clandestinely to reclaim it, without
a possibility of our discovering the injustice?

If a discrimination can be suggested, I shall
readily agree to it; but I think it cannot be done
unless we substitute an excise, or a tax on stills,
neither of which would be equally convenient
or productive, and therefore neither would be
proper for the House to agree to. The propor-
tion between the duty on country rum at eight
cents, and West India at twelve cents, is a con-
siderable difierence in favor of home made spi-
rits, and sufficient io answer the purpose of pro-
tecting the manufacture.

Mr. FrrzsiHONs. — I think the duty on this
article depends, in a great measure, upon what
has been already agreed to. If the tax of West
India and country rum is not well proportion-
ed, it may be destructive of the end we have
in contemplation. If, agreeably to the idea of
the gentleman from New York^ we aflix a low
duty, a great deal more rum will, in all proba-
bility, be distilled and used than heretofore; of
course, it will efTectually rival the Jamaica rum,
and the Union will lose the revenue which we
calculate upon. Eight cents, I apprehend, is as
well proportioned to the other taxes as can be
devised. Country rum is worth two shillings
and three pence, which is more than half the
price of Jamaica spirits, so that rum of the for-
mer Quality can be used so much cheaper, as to
establish itself a greater consumption than here-
tofore. It has been mentioned as a necessary of
life — the fact is admitted; but shall it be infer-
red from thence, that no duty ought to be col-
lected from molasses, while you impose one
on sugar, which is equally a necessary of life
among themiddleaiid southern States; although
the remark has been made alreadv, I must re-
peat it, and beg the committee to bear in mind,
that whenever a tax on a particular article
seems to bear harder on one State than another,
we must endeavor to eaualize it by laying some
other to restore an equilibrium to the system.

Mr. Goodhue considered molasses as a raw
material, essentially requisite for the well-being
of a very extensive and valuable manufacture.
It ought likewise to be considered (as was truly

137

GALES & SE ATONES HISTORY

138

H. OF R.]

IJuliet on Imports.

[April 14, 1789.

stated] a necessary of life. In the eastern States
it entered into the diet of the poorer class ot
people, who were, from the decay of trade and
other adventitious circumstances, totally una-
ble to sustain such a weight as a tax of eight
cents would be upon them. Moreover, the tax
was upon particular States as well as individu-
als, for it was a fact of public notoriety, that
Massachusetts imported more molasses than ail
the other States together. »She imports from
30,000 to 40,000 hogsheads annually. He would
make one obr^ervation more. It had been the
policy of Great Britain, as he well remember-
ed, to encumber and depress the distillation ol
molasses. To do this, at one time they laid a
diity of three pence sterling per gallon. It was
conceived to be an oppressive measure, but it
had little other effect than to cause heart burn-
ings and enmity. It produced no revenue, and
the Parliament were forced to reduce the duty
to a penny. From experience, therefore, as well
as from the arguments before urged, he was in-
clined to t)elieve that the committee would be
satisfied with fixing a lower sum. He could not
consent to allow more than two cents.

Mr. Madison had heard an observation made
by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, which he
thoughtlessened the force of the objection taken
against taxing molasses as a necessary of life.
1 hose who used it in substance escaped the tax
on sugar, at least so much of it as the one was
a substitute for the other. He feared«that there
was no other way of coming at the duty on
country rum, but laying one on the material
from which it was extracted, and he did not
think eight cents out of the way.

Mr. Goodhue replied, that eight cents was
nearly half the first cost, and consequently dis-
proportioned to the tax on foreign rum. He also
observed* that the gentleman from Virginia,
when he was stating the rum exported abroad,
must surely have read wrong, for to his certain
knowledge several vessels were principally load-
•ed with this article every year.*

Mr. Thatcher.— It api>ears to me, that for
the want of a certain and fixed principle to act
upon, there is a ereat dancer of making some
improper establishments. It is for this reason
that 1 wish not to hurry on the business with so
much precipitation. Did gentlemen consider,
when they agreed to a high duty on ardent spi-
rits, that It would be a pretext for increasing
the duties on a necessary of life. I presvime a
principal reason why a hiah tax on spirits was
admitted, was in order to discourage the use of
it among ourselves. If this was the intention of
the committee, I have no objection to the bur-
then; but, even here, I fear difficulties will
arise. Did we judiciously examine whether the

*ThiB ailicle, in the exports from Massachusetts,
stands thusx ** Country rum — hogsheads shipped to
the several parts of the United States, 5327, value
ie49,94d« to Nova Scotia, 89 hogsheads, value £801;
to Europe, 134 hogsheads, value £ 1206; and to Africa
and the East Indies, 897 hogsheads, value £8073."

spirit of the law accords with the habits and
manners of the people? and did we assure our-
selves of the full execution of the law? If we
did not, the act becomes impolitic, t>ecause a
law which cannot be executed tends to make
the Government less respectable.

Consider molasses as a raw material, and, on
this account, you cannot agree to burthen it
with an unequal tax ; consider it as a necessary
of life, entenng daily into the consumption uf
the lower class of people, and the duty on it
ought to be extremely low. I do not see how
we are to get clear of this emtiarrassment, un-
less we rescind what we have already done;
because, if the principle for taxing ardent spi-
rits be to lessen (he consumption, in oider to
preserve the health and morals of the people.
It will apply as forcibly to tax country rum
eight cents, as is now proposed, as it did to tax
Jamaica rum fifteen cents. I am not an enemy
to making the impost the principle instrument
of revenue, yet I lear we have not proceeded
with due deliberation. It was my wish to take
up the subject, as has been frequently mention-
ed, and form a law on the most simple orinci-
pies, leaving time, information, and reflection
to form*a system of impost, on more extensive
and particular principles, fitted equally to aftect
the whole and every pare of the Union.

For these reasons, I shall move, if lam in or-
der, to take up the resolution of Congress of
1783, and lay on duties as nearly similar as can
well be to those recommended at that period $
and then move for a committee to go on to re-
view and consider of certain regulations neces-
sary to form a permanent system at some future
period.

Mr. Cltmeiu — The advocates for a low duty-
repeated ly mention this article as a raw mate-
rial necessary to support a considerable manu-
facture; but do they consider that the consump-
tion of country rum is attended with an injury
to a much more yaluuble. manufacture, the raw
material for which is furnished by our own
agriculture, and which is divested of the perni-
cious qualities attached to ardent spirits — I
mean the manufacture of malt liquors.

Mr. Ames. — I have not had the advantage
of hearing all the arguments in support of the
eight cents proposed; but those I have heard I
am not satisfied with. The principles on which
this tax is founded, I understand to be this: that
it is an article of luxury, and of pretty general
consumption, so that the duty is expected to fall
equally upon all; but that it will not operate in
this manner, I think is easily demonstrable.
Can a duty of fifty per cent, ad valorem, paid,
as it were, in an exclusive manner, by the State
of Massachusetts^ be equal? No, sir. But tak-
ing it as a part ot the general system, can it be
equal unless a proportionable duty, equal to
fifty per cent, is laid upon articles consumed
in other parts of the Union? No, sir: and is it
in the contemplation of gentlemen to lay duties
so high as to produce this equality? I trust it
is not; because such duties could never be coU

139

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

140

April U, 1789.]

Duties on Imporla.

[H. OF It

lected. Is not, therefore, eight cents dispro-
portioned to the rates fixed, or intended to be
imposed on other articles? I think it is; and,
if to these considerations we add what has been
said before, relative to its being a raw material
important to a considerable manufacture^ we
cannot hesitate to r^ect it.

The people will indubitably continue to use
ardent spirits, until the slow operation of the
Jaw shall produce other habits; and while they
continue to use them, it is better for this coun-
try that they use the kind which is wished to
be indirectly taxed. It must be better, because
at is manufactured within ourselves, and gives
useful emplo^ent to a considerable number of
our fellow-citizens. It must be better because
thegouds which we export for the raw materials,
are drugs upon our hands. Certainly the trade
is mutually beneficial to the parties concerned;
but it is so in a greater degree to us than to
them. We exchange for molasses^ those fish
that it is impossible to dispose of any where
else; we have no market within our reach, but
the islands from whence we get molasses in re-
turn, which again we manufacture into rum.
These circumstances form a material link in
our chain of navigation, and upon our suc-
cess in navigation the most important inter-
ests of the United States depend. It is scarce-
ly possible to maintain our fisheries with ad-
vantage, if the commerce for summer fish is in-
jured, which I conceive it would be verv mate-
rially, if a high duty is imposed upon this arti-
cle; nay it would cany devastation throughout
all the New Eneland states, it would ultimately
affect all throughout the Union. Will gentle-
men^ who declare themselves the frierids of
manufactures, support the opinion, that a raw
material ought tone saddled with an excessive
duty, that the imposition should be at a higher
rate than what is laid upon manufactured arti-
cles; at a time too when the price is such that
the home manufacture cannot support a success-
ful competition with the other, even in our own
markets? No, gentlemen will not be so incon-
sistent: they know and advocate the policy of
supporting the manufactures of our country, by
giving them such advantages as are consistent
with the general good.

I shall proceed to show the importance of the
present subject, in another point of light. The
taking of fish on the banks is a very moment-
ous concern, it forms a nursery for seamen, and
this will be the source from which we are to
derive maritime importance. It is the policy
of some nations to drive us from this prolific
source of wealth and strength; but what their
detestable efforts have in vain endeavored to do,
you will accomplish b^ a high duty on this ar-
ticle. Our situation with respect to the fishing
banks, and our vicinity to the West India isl-
ands, are natural advantages, which all the ma-
chinations of jealousy cannot prevent us the en-
joyment of. The habits of our fishermen are
well calculated to improve these advantages to
perfection, and no nation can carry on the Dusi-

ness at so small an expense; it is these circum-
stances that render our fish cheap while this
cheapness insures us a sale, and enables us to be
successful competitors in everv port that will re-
ceive us. Our best fish will find its way tothe best
markets, while theslaves in the Westlndies will
consume the refuse. If we can exchange that part,
therefore, which would be otherwise thrown
away, it is so much clear gain tothe community.
Hence, this country bv increasing the demand
of our fish increases the navigation: gentlemen
will therefore be cautious how they adopt a
measure that affects, or only seems to affect, one
of the most important interests of the United
States.

However gentlemen may think the use of
this article dangerous to the health and morals
of our fellow citizens — ^I would also beg them to
consider, that it is no more so than every other
kind of spirituous liquors; that it will jgrow into
an article for exportation; and although I admit
we could export it even encumbereu with the
duty proposed, yet by it we run the risk of hav-
ing the manufacture totally ruined, for it can
hardly now stand a competition at home with
the West India rum, much less can it do so
abroad. If the manufacturers of country rum
are to be devoted to certain ruin, to mend the
morals of others, let them be admonished that
they prepare themselves for the event: but in
the way we are about to take, destruction comes
on a sudden, they have not time to seek refuse
in any other employment whatsoever. If their
situation will not operate to restrain the hand
of iron policy, consider how immediately they
are connected with the most essential interests
of the union, and then let me ask if it is wise,
if it is reconcilable to national prudence, to take
measures subversive of your very existence?
For I do contend, that the very existence of the
eastern states depends upon the encouragement
of their navigation and fishery, which receive a
deadly wound by an excessive impost on the
article before us.

I would concur in any measure calculated to
exterminate the poison covered under the form
of ardent spirits, from our country; but it should
t>e without violence. I approve as much as any
gentleman the introduction of malt liquors, be-
lieving them not so pernicious as the one in com-
mon use; but before we restrain ourselves to
the use of them, we ought to be certain that we
have malt and hops, as well as brew-houses for
the manufacture. Now I deny that we have
these in sufficient abundance to the eastward;
but if we had, they are not taxed. Then why
should the poor of^ Massachusetts be taxed for
the beverage they use of spruce, molasses, and
water — it surely is unreasonable. I hope gentle-
men will not adopt the motion for eight cents un -
til they are furnished with some better evidence
of its propriety and policy than any that has
yet been given, or as 1 suspect that can be given.

Mr. FiTzsiHONS was pleased that gentle-
men went so fully into a cliscussion of a subject
which they conceived of great importance.

141

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

142

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April U, 1789.

but he be^ed them not to lose si^ht of an
observation that had already been made, that
whenever a particular duty was supposed to
bear hard on any one member of the union, it
ought to be regarded as a part only of a system
bearing equally upon all. He was a friend to
commerce, it was his particular profession, and
what he had principally devoted his attention
toj and therefore it might justly be imagined he
was unwilling to fetter it with restraints^ but
as a member of this body, he considered it pro-
per to forego a pertinacious adhesion to that
system, when its interest came in competition
vifith the general welfare.

The gentleman from Massachusetts (Mr.
Ames) has represented the proposed regulation
as tendine eventually to the ruin of the com-
merce, fisheries, and manufactures of that state.
I do not believe (aiided he) such a consequence
would result from a duty of eight cents on a
gallon of molasses; if I did, I would be one of the
last to advocate the measure; but to understand
this circumstance more fully, let us proceed to
an inquiry of the ground on which we stand.
The state of Massachusetts imports a greater
proportion of this article than any other m the
union; she will have therefore (say the oppo-
nents of the measure) to pay exclusively alt the
impost upon it. Let us examine this. Some part
of the molasses is consumed in the substance,
but all the remainder is distilled: this must
either be consumed in the State, or exported
from it; in the latter case, I would propose that
all the rum shipped to foreign nations should
draw back the duties it had paid as molasses.
This would obviate all that was said relative to
the competition between this State and other na-
tions at a foreign market. As to what is export-
ed but consumed in some other parts ot the
United States, it is but proper that a duty
should be paid, and although it may beadvanced
in the first instance bv the people of Massachu-
setts, yet it will be ultimately paid by the con-
sumers in other parts.

What is consumed within the State itself,
gentlemen surely do not mean to have excluded
from adutv. If they consume more country
rum than West India, they pay a less duty than
those States which consume a greater proportion
of the latter. As to what is used in its raw, un-
manufactured state, it will be suflicient to ob-
serve, that as it is generally a substitute for
sugar, the consumers will therefore avoid the
tax on that article, and pay it on the other. In
Pennsylvania they mostly use sugar; now. if
the |>eople there paya tax on thatarticle, itisbut
distributive justice that the people of Massachu-
setts pay one on the article they use for the same
purpose.

1 do contend, that if a less, or much less duty
on this article is laid, it will rival foreign rum
80 far as to prevent its importation in a consid-
erable degree, whereby the United States will
lose the revenue expected from it, or the opera-
tion of the tax will be unequal upon the con-
sumer of sugar and molasses, which cannot cer-

tainly t>e the wish of any member, if I may
judge from the conciliating disposition which i3>
prevalent in the committee.

Mr. Amb& stated the difference in the price
of country rum and West India— the former
was woiih two shillings and three pence, the
latter twice as much, so that there was not ob-
served a proper ratio in taxing the one eight
cents and the other twelve cents. He stated the
difficulty of collecting so high a duty, and ex-
pressed an apprehension that the committee
would deceive themselves in calculating upon
it for any great production. He was satistied
it would hereafter become necessary to lower
the duty from eight cents, if the committee
should now agree to lay it, and appealed to
their wisdom, if it was not better, and less inju-
rious to the fair trader at any time, to increase
than diminish the duties. This circumstance de-
manded the attention of the committee, though
he would not presa it further, being satistied
that gentlemen's candor would induce them to
acknowledge the propriety of such policy.

He had mentioned before the devastation
which he conceived likely to take place, if »
high duty was laid on this article. The obser-
vation was thought by tlie gentleman who spoke
last, to be altogether without foundation; he
hoped it was. But here his reason and wishes
were at variance: He was convinced that the
fishery had for some years past been very ud-
productive; not but that the fish were to be had
in plenty, and the fishermen's abUities were
equal to any other in the woi'ld; but because
they could not find a market to dispose of the
product of their labor, He was pretty certain
the trade would have been abandoned by many
who have carried on a losing trade, had it not
been for the hope that a more energetic Govern -
ment would be framed, which would give theiu
that support which the importance of the sub>
ject required.

All he wished on the present occasion, was to
lay such a duty as should protect the manufac-
ture. He feared no loss to the revenue; because
if the duty was low, all molasses would be en-
tered and paid for, whereas If it was high, it
would induce an illicit trade, as injurious to
the morals of the people as the consumption
of our countiy rum. In addition, he considered
it a necessary of life, aiul would never consent
to tax it fifty percent, upon its value, nor did he
believe any other gentleman would, if he con-
sidered that the tax would operate more against
the poor than the rich, because the poor were the
principal consumers of the article.

Mr. GoooHUE.~Fifteen cents, the sum laid
on Jamaica spirits, is about one-third part of its
value; now eight cents on molasses is considera-
bly more: the former is an article of luxury, as
was observed when it was under consideration,
therefore that duty might not be improper; but
the latter cannot be said to partake of that qua-
lity in the substance, and when manufactured
into rum it is no more a luxury than Jamaica
spirits. I catmot see, therefore, why molasses

143

OF DEBATES IN COxNGRESS.

144

April 14, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H, OF R.

ought to be taxec) forty or fifty per cent, when
the other |>ay8 but thirty-t4iree4 surely the sub-
stance ought not to pa^ at this rate — then what
good reason can be offered for the measure?

Mr. Lawkenos adverted to the price of the
notasses, which at the place of importation
was worth one shilling and nine pence. West
India rum he stated to be worth three sluliingH
aod four pence or three shillings and sixpence —
the fiuties were not in the same proportion. He
thought the labor of distiJiatioo ought not to be
taxed — ^a gallon of molasses gavea gallon of rum:
but it ought not to be charged, even upon the
principles of the advocates ibr liigh duties, at
moie Uian -six cents.

Mr. BouoiNOT had attended to the argu-
inentfiof the gentlemen on both sides of the
question, and was led to t)elieve the proportion
was not pro^rly observed. By Ute resolution
of Congress in 1783, the molasses was fixed upon
<iae consideration at one penny, and WestlMia
rum at four pence. The proposed proportion
was two-thirds 4>f what is charged on West
India rum. He thought this toe iiigh. as it
%vouJd be an incumbrance on a considerable
inanu^ture; six cents wet« therefore a more
equitable rate than eight cents were: he be-
lieved al so« that it was as much as the article
would bear, especially if it was coiisidered that
the whole of the article was not manufactured
into rutn, but a large proportion consumed in
-substance. This might also be near what is in-
tended to be charged on sugary by fixing it at
this rate^ the necessity of lowering the duty at
some future day would be avoided^ which he
thought an object worthy of the committee's
consideration.

Mr. GooDHUii observed, that even six cents
bore no kind of proportion to the tax laid in
Massachusetts upon this article^ it was much
too high, and could not tail of^iviug great dissa-
iiafacuon amon^ the people.

Mr< AMSs.^If'the committee pass a resolu*
tion that shall have a tendency to injure the sale
of country rum, tliefact is, that being unable
any longer to export it, we shall have such a
quantity on hand as to occasion tlie ruin of those
concerued in the manufacture^ for unless it is
exported, they have no means of disposing of it.
The quantity annually exported is very consid-
erable, and jt gives employ to several thousand
tons of shipping; if therefore the trade is stopped
by our restrictions, it will have a latal effect
cipon our navigation, the encouragement oi which '.
is admitted to be of high importance to every
part of the uuioa.

Mr. Madison stated, that the rum exported
inoneyear since the peace, amounted to six hun-
dred a»d eighty-three thousand and some odd
^loos, the principal part of which was sent to
different parts ot the United States: now, if a
considerable difference was made in the duties
between West India rum and that of our own
fiianttfacture, the -consequence would be, that.
an inferior liquor would overspread the coun-
try« and the revenue become unproductive^ but

he did not wisli, objectionable as the manufac-
ture of this article was, that it should have no
encouragement. If gentlemen would be satis-
fied with a small reduction, he would withdraw
his motion for eight centsj but he believed six
cents would be too low, he therefore moved to
tax it with seven cents.

Mr. BouDiNoi^ wished, the gentleman to
consider the difi*erence in the price; if he did
that, he would allow it to be reduced to six
cents: if this principle could now be fixed, it
would carry them through the whole.

Mr. Partridge allowed, if all the molasses
was distilled into rum, thata snaall duty might be
proper; but when it was considered as an arti-
cle of sustenance to the poor, and as a reguisite
to the support of tlie fislieriesand navigation, he
hoped the committee would allow but a very
small one indeed. He wished it was possible
to discriminate between what was manufactur-
ed into rum, and what was consumed in the
raw state, because a higher duty might be col-
lected in the former case than in the latter.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS stated, that there were
327,000 gallons of rum imported into Pennsyl-
vania in 1765, which would tend to show how
great a part was consumed by the citizens of
the Union; a demand in one State so great as
this, proved how likclv it was for New Eng-
land rum to rival the West India. He thought
the prices of the two articles gave the country
rum a very considerable advantage, and there-
fore a duty of seven cents could not be very
injuiious to the manufactuie.

The question was put on seven cents and
lost.

And it was agreed to fill the bUnk with six
cents.

On filling up the blank on Madeira wine,

Mr. Shbrman moved fifteen cents.

Mr. GiLMAN moved twenty cents, and

Mr. Hartley moved thirty cents, in order
(as he observed) to make it correspond wi^
the rate per cent, on the value; as^ the princi-
ple of proportion seemed to be admitted by the
committee.

Mr. Sherman said, it appeared to him to be
pretty well proportioned; because diose who
accustomed tnemselves to drink wine, consum-
ed two or three times as much as tliose who
used spirits, and consequently paid a due prs-
portion.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs. — I shall move you, sir, that
the blank be filled with fifty cents. I observed
some gentlemen, in their arguments on the last
article, laid great stress upon the impropriety of
taxing the necessaries of life that were juinci-

fally consumed by the poorer class of ci4iisen&
do not think anv of ihe members of this com-
mittee consider the article of Madeira wine a
necessary of life, at least to those whose in-
comes are only sufficient for a temperate sub-
sistence; therefore no ohjection of this kind can
be made on the present occasion. The proprie-
ty of a high tax on wines, I apprehend* is self-
evidentf whether we consider the price of the

145

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

146

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 14, 1789.

article, or the ability of the people to pay who
consume it. The value of a pipe of Madeira
wine, I believe, is about two hundred dollars;
a hogshead of rum is worth about forty dollars.
The ability of those who consume the one and
the other are, I suppose, in nearlr the same ra-
tio. I do not pretend to know what are the in-
tentions of gentlemen on this subject, but my
wish is, to raise so considerable a revenue from
imposts as to render it unnecessary to apply to
any other mode. If this be the wish of the
committee also, they will be inclined to raise
a great part of it from the consumption of those
people who are beht able to pay, among whom
we may, with great propriety, reckon the con-
sumers of Madeira wine.

Mr. P. Muhlenberg thought his colleague's
observations were very judicious, and said they
met exactly his ideas; he therefore seconded
the motion for fifty cents.

Mr. Bland. — 1 am not against laying any
sum on this article which there is a probability
of collecting; but I am afraid we are running
wild in the business, and although we appear to
be in search of revenue, we are pursuing a
track that will lead us wide of our murk. I
am really suspicious, if we lay a duty of fifty
cents upon Madeira wine, we shall not have a
single gallon entei'ed in any port of the United
States, and we shall fully verify to the world
the truth of an old maxim, that two and two,
in finance, do not make four. I would there-
fore suggest to the committee, the propriety of
considering well, whether they can or cannot
collect the high duty proposed. If thev are
well convinced that it can be done, and will
satisfy me only that there is a probability of its
being the case, I shall cheerfully concur in the
motion; but at present, I am of opinion we shall
not be able to obtain any revenue whatsoever
if the tax is laid so high.

Mr. Lawrence apprehended the gentleman
from Pennsylvania (Mr. Fitzsimons) was mis-
taken in the price of Madeira wine; he had
stated it to be worth two hundred dollars a

Cipej it might be so when sold for consumption,
ut It was not worth more than, half that sum at
the time of importation; wherefore on the prin-
ciple of proportioning the impost to (be value,
he would propose twenty cents.

Mr. Fitzsimons.— I mentioned two hundred
dollars as the value of a pipe of Madeira wine
when sold for consumption, and, so far as my
experience goes, I believe it to be the case.
Madeira wine is not only regulated by the first
cost »nd charges on transportation, but also by
the time it is kept to prepare it for corj^sumption;
and i know, sir, there are Madeira wines at a
less price imported, which are not consumed;
but I believe what is actually consumed sells
for little less than the sum I mentioned. No
wine can be bought in the island of Madeira for
lesH than twenty-four pounds sterlinis; the pipe.
This, with the expence and charges of shipping,
freight, &c. will bring the lowest kind of wine
far beyond what the gentleman from New York

estimates it at. Comparing, therefore, the dutv
with the value of the article, I believe it wifl
be found that fifty cents is not much too highf
if therefore the committee will not ^rant that
sum, they certainly will be for something near
it.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — I a^ree entirely with the
principle of laying duties according to their
relative value, and hope the committee will
keep up the line of proportion as near as possi-
ble. It is only in the application of this princi •
pie on the present occasion, that I differ witli-
the honorable gentleman from Pennsylvania^
for whose opinions 1 have the highest respect.
I confess, too, that he is much better able to as-
certain the price of foreign articles than 1 am;
but 1 believe, with regard to this one of Ma-
deira wine, I have it in my power to ascertain
it pretty welL I take it, that a pipe of wine-
usually costs at Madeira from twenty-five to
thirty pounds sterling; but then I would wisb
the committee to take into consideration that
this wine is paid for there in our own produce
at a verv advantageous rate, which reduces the
nominal sterling sum down in value to a like
sum of our currencv. I therefore look upon it^
that we may calculate the cost of a gallon ol'
Madeira wine at one dollar; for I cannot con-
ceive that any gentleman entertains an idea of
taxing the risk the merchant runs in importing;
the wine, or the increased value it obtains dur-
ing the tinoe it takes to ripen for sale. In laying
our duties we ought to apportion it to the value
of the article at the time and place of importa-
tion, without taking advantage of such adventi-
tious circumstances. Beside, there is a consi-
derable loss attends keeping Madeira. Th(^
storage is no inconsiderable expense, and the
evaporation is an actual loss in quantitjr, whicf»
the merchant is obliged to replace by filling op
the cask. Under these considerations, I think
it may be admitted, that twenty of twenty-five
cents per gallon is a sufficient tax. Moreover^
it may be easily demonstrated, that such a duty
would be more productive than fifty cents; be-
cause it would be with greater certainty col-
lected. There is another reason that induces
me to think twenty cents more proper; fifty-
cents for a gallon of wine is a large sum for a
merchant to lay down in duties; it must abridge
his mercantile operations, and consequently
tend to discourage the Madeira trade, which^
in my humble opinion, is one of the most ad-
vantageous America has left to her, from the
selfish policy that actuates some foreign Pow-
ers; therefore we ought not to burthen it to so
great a degree as the proposed duty seems ta
have in contemplation.

Mr. Lawrence thought that a pipe of Ma-
deira was not worth more than he had before
intimated at the time it was imported, it was»
true, that as the wine increased in age it became
more valuable, and, on an average, might l)e
valued at the time of consumptitm at about two
bundled dollars; now, if ke was right, and fmn>
the observations that were already madis Ue

147

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

148

Afml U, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. ofR.

concluded that laying a duty of fifty cents
would be fifty per cent, on the value, or rather
more, because a pipe of Madeira generally held
more than one hundred gallons, and its value
seldom on the importation exceeded one hun-
dred dollars. He thought it would operate as a
premium to encourage smuggling, ana therefore
was not inclined to vote fur more than twenty
cents.

Mr. FrrzsiMoNS withdrew his motion for fifty
cents, and moved thirty-three and one-third
cents.

The qoestion was put upon thirty-three and
one -third cents as the highest sum, and agreed
to, bein§ twenty-one votes for it, and nineteen
against it.

The next article, " on all other wines," pre-
sented itself in order for the consideration of
the committee.

Mr. Heister observed, there were a great va-
riety of wines included in that genei-aFexpres-
sion, the ptices of which were very diifereut:
s«ime worth even .mure than Madeira, and
others less: he submitted, therefore, to the com-
mittee the propriety of discriminating and tax-
ing them according to their value.

Mr. BouDiNOT acquiesced in the remark.

Mr FrrzsiHONS did not think it worth while,
at this time, to engage the committee in making
such a discrimination. The rich wines were
imported in no very considerable quantities.
and if the duty was laid pretty high, it would
tend to exclude the most inferior and low wines
from being introduced.

it was thereupon agreed to lay twenty cents
00 all other wines.

The next article on the list was '^bohea tea,"
on which

Mr. FiTzsiMONs observed, that he meant this
article not only as a revenue, but as a regula-
tion of a commerce highly advantageous to the
United States. The merchants of this country
have, from a variety of circumstances, and find-
ing their trade restrained and embarrassed,
been under the necessity of exploring channels
to which they were heretofore unaccustomed.
At length they have succeeded in discovering
one that bids fair to increase our national im-
portance and prosperity, while at the same time
It is lucrative to the persons engaged in its pro-
secution. I mean, sir, the trade to China and
the East Indies. I have no doubt but what it
will receive the encouragement of the Federal
Guvernment for some time to come. There is
scarcely any direct intercourse of this nature,
bat what requires some assistance in the begin-
ning; it is peculiarly necessary in our case, from
the jealousy subsisting in Europe of this infant
branch ol commerce. It has been thought pro-
per, under some of the State governments, to
foster and protect a direct communication with
India. I hope the Government of the United
States lias an equal disposition to give this trade
their encouragement.

I wish, therefore, the committee would pass
over the article for the present, and permit it

to come in at another place in the list, where I
mean to move a discrimination in the duty on
teas, according as they are imported, directly
from China in our own ships, or in any ships
frttm Europe.

Mr. Madison expressed an apprehension that
if the two objects of revenue and commerce
were blended together on enumerated articles,
it would be difficult to fix a scale of duties that
would be satisfactory. He wished, therefore, to
keep the first object distinct, lest some extra-
ordinarjT trouble should be given the commit-
tee in distinguishing the degree of encourage-
ment proper to be allowed. When the article
of tonnage on foreign and domestic vessels
came to be ascertained, the point the worthy
member from Pennsylvania (Mr. Fitzsimons)
meditated, might be pniperly considered.

Mr. Parker thought the proposition, hinted
by the gentleman from Pennsylvania, requir-
ed time for consideration, especially as it was
novel, no indication having before been given
on the business. He moved, therefore, the ri-
sing of the committee.

Mr. Fitzsimons did not think the argument
just used for the committee's rising was suffi-
cient to warrant them in agreeing to the mo-
tion. The part of the proposition under con-
sideration, which he wished to alter, might
stand postponed, in order to give gentlemen
time to turn their attention and inquiries to
such an important subject. He did not think,
by any means, that a combination of the objects
of revenue and protection of ti-ade was so diffi-
cult as had just been represented; however, for
the present, he waved an inquiry into the sub-
ject, and hoped the committee would pass it
over for the present, and go on to the following
articles.

The articles of teas arid pepper were passed
over for the present.

Mr. BouDiNOT proposed one cent per pound
on sugar.

Two cents were afterwards proposed, when

Mr. Fitzsimons remarked, that one gallon
of inolasKes weighed eight pounds; that at six
cents it did not pay a cent per pound; could it,
therefore, be c<illed anywise equal to such a tax
on sugar? Moreover, sugar is an article of as
general consumption as molasses, and when it
is of this inferior quality, it enters as much or
more into the consumption of the poor as the
other, while, at the same time, molasses will
sweeten more, according to its weight, than
even the best sugar; from which considerations,
I think gentlemen will be satisfied b)r putting
it on an equality with molasses; therefore I do
not oppose the one cent.

On the question, the committee agreed to tax
it but one cent per pound, and loai sugar three
cents per pound. All other sugars one and a
half cent per pound. On coftee two and a half
cents per pound.

On motion of Mr. Bland, the committee rose
and reported progress. Adjourned.

J 49

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

150

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 15, 1789.

Wednesday, April 15.

Mr. Tucker presented the petition of David
Ramsay, of the State of South Carolina, set-
ting forth that he had, at a great expense of
time and money, published a book, entitled
** The History of the Revolution of South Ca-
rolina, from a British Province to an indepen-
dent State;" that he had also prepared, and
purposes shortly to publish, another book un-
der the title of the *' History of the American
Revolution," and praying that a law may pass
for securing to the petitioner, his heirs and as-
signs, for a certain terra of years, the sole and
exclusive right of vendin^c and disposing of the
said books within the United States.

Also, a petition of John Churchman, setting
forth that, by several years' labor, close appli-
cation, and at great expense, he hath invented
several diflferent methods by which the princi-
ples of magnetic variation are so explained,
that the latitude of a place being given, its
longitude may be easily determined; and prat-
ing that a law may pass for vesting in the peti-
tioner, his heirs ana assigns, an exclusive right
of vending spheres, hemispheres, maps, charts,
and tables, on his principles of magnetism,
throughout the United States; as, also, that he
may receive the patronage of Congress to ena-
ble him to perform a voyage to Haffin^s Bay,
for the purpose of making roagnetical experi-
ments to ascertain the causes of the variation
of the needle, and how near the longitude may
be thereby ascertained.

Ordered^ That the said petitions be referred
to a committee of three, and that Messrs.
Tucker, White, and Huntington, be the
Raid committee.

A petition of David Ramsay, of the State ot
South Carolina, was presented to the House
and read, setting forth that Mr. William Smith,
a member returned to serve in this House as
one of the representatives for the State of South
Carolina, was, at the time of his election, in-
oligiblc thereto, and came within the disquali-
lication of the third paragraph of the constitu-
tion, which declares ** that no person shall be a
representative who shall not nave been seven
years a citizen of the United States," and
praying that these allegations may be inquired
by the House.

Referred to the Committee on Elections.

Mr. Benson, from the committee to whom
it was referred to consider of and report to the
House respecting the ceremonial of receiving
the President, and to whom was also referred a
letter from the Chairman of a Committee of the
Senate to the Speaker, communicating an in-
struction from that House to a committee there-
of, toreportif any, and what, arrangements are
necessary for the reception of the President,
made the following report:

" That Mr. Osgood, the proprietor of the house
lately occupied I>y the President of Congress, be
requested to put the same, and tlic furniture therein,
in proper condition for the residence and use of the

President of the United States, to provide for his
temporary accommodation.

*<That it will be most eligible, in the first in-
stance, that a committee of three members frdm the
Senate, and five from the House of Representatives,
to be appointed by the Houses respectively, to at-
tend to receive the President at such place as be
shall embark from New Jersey for this city, and
conduct him without form to the house lately occu-
pied by the President of Congress, and that at such
time thereafter, as the President shall signify it will
be convenient for him, he be formally received by
both Houses.

«That a committee of two members from the
Senate, and three members from the House of Rep-
resentatives, to be appointed by the Houses respec-
tively, wait on the President of the United States,
as soon as he shall come to this city, and, in the
name of the Cong^ss of the United States, con-
gratulate him on his arrival."

And a committee of five was balloted for
and chosen accordingly, for the purpose of
waiting on the President.

Another committee of three was appointed to
wait on the Vice President.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the state of the Union,
Mr. Page in the chair^ the question being on
inserting, in the list o( dutiable articles, beer,
ale, and porter —

Mr. FiTzsiMONs meant to make an alteration
in this article, by distinguishing beer, ale, and
porter, imported in casks, from what was import-
ed in bottles. He thought this manufacture'ane
highly deserving of encouragement. If the mo-
rals of the people were \o be improved b^ what
entered into their diet, it woulcJ be prudent in
the national Legislature to encourage the manu-
facture of inalt liquors. The small protecting
duties laid in Pennsylvania had a great effect to-
wards the establishment of breweries; they no
longer imported this article, but, on the contra-
ry, exported considerable quantities, and, in
two or three years, with the fostering aid of Go-
vernment, would be able to furnish enough for
the whole consumption of the United States.
He moved nine cents per gallon. .

Mr. Lawrence seconded the motion. He
would have this duty so high as to give a decid-
ed preference to American beer; it would tend
also to encourage agriculture, because the malt
and hops consumed in the manufacture were
the produce of our own grounds.

Mr. Smith (of Maryland) was opposed io
such high duties as seemed to be in the contem-
plation of some members of the committee. He
thought enough might be raised if the tax was
lowered. He formed this opinion from some
calculations he had made with respect to the
imports at Baltimore. He stated them to amount
for the last year« at the rate now proposed, to
£258, 1 63; to this, if he added five other districts
in Maryland, the prol>able amount of which, oo
the same principle, would be JBI85,637; then.

151

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

152

ApBal5, 1789.]

Duiiea on Imports,

[H. OF R.

these two sums multiplied by twelve, the sup-
posed proportion that Maiylaud ought to bear
of the national debt, would produce £5,324,400,
a sam exceeding very considerably what the
wants of the Union reauired.

Mr. Gale thought a duty of nine cents would
operate as a prohibition upon the importation of
beer and porter. He remarked the advantages
which America possessed in crowing malt and
ho{»forthe manufacture of these articles. In
addition to this, the risk and expense of bring-
ing it from Burope was to be considered. Upon
the whole, he concluded so high a duty as nine
cents would give the brewers nere a monopoly,
defeat the purpose of obtaining revenue, en-
hance the price of the consumer, and thereby
establish the use of spirituous liquors. For these
considerations he was against that sum.

Mr. SiNNicKsoN declared himself a friend to
this manufacture, and thought if the duty was
laid high enough to effect a prohibition, the
manofacture would increase, and, of conse-
linence, the price be lessened. He considered
it of importance, inasmuch as the materials
were produced in the country, and tended to
advance the agiicultural interest.

Mr. Madison moved to lay an impost of ei^ht
cents on all beer imported. He diet not think
this sum would give a monopoly, but hoped it
would be such an encouragement as to induce
the manufacturer to take deep root in every State
in the Union; in this case, it woiild produce the
collateral good hinted at by the gentleman from
New Jersey, which, in his opinion, was an ob-
ject well worthy of being attended to. He ob-
served, that, in the State of New York, the
article paid a duty equal to six cents on impor-
tation, and if brought in foreign vessels, it
amounted to eight cents: and yet quantities of
it were stilt imported, wnich proved that eight
cents would not amount to a prohibition.

The committee agreed hereupon to charge it
at eight cents.

On all l>eer, ale, or porter, imported in bot-
tles, per dozen, twenty-five cents. Agreed to
without debate.

On every barrel of beef it was moved to lay
a doty of a dollar per barrel.

Mr. Bland thought that very little revenue
was likely to be collected on this article, let the
duty be more or less; and as it was to be had
in sufficient quantities within the U<iited States.
perhaps a tax amounting to a prohibition would
be proper.

Mr. Thatcher admitted that there was beef
enough to be got in every part of the country,
but it was fresh beef. Some States, from local
circumstances, were unable to salt and preserve
it, therefore a tax on this article would operate
a» a partial tax up(m those States, if there is
a Mifflcient quantity in the other States to an-
swer their own consumption, they will feel no
(»rt of the burthen; but it appeared unneces-
ttry to him to lay this restriction, because
b« found some States capable of exporting
beef on terms as reasonably low as any other

country could, and it could not, therefore, be
contended for as a requisite encouragement to
this branch of the agricultural interest.

Mr. Goodhue did not contend that it was
necessary to lay a particular duty on beef^ al-
though it was among the enumerated articles
admitted by the committee. He was satisfied
of the fact, that meat could be put up here
cheaper than in Europe, and afforded at a less
price, so there was little to apprehend from ri-
val ship.

Mr. Madison thought that almost every State
in the Union had more of this article than was
necessary for its own consumption, and conse-
quently there was no danger of its being im-
ported, unless the quality of the foreign beef
was superior. He would not object to gentle-
men gratifying themselves with this meat, es-
pecially as the consumption was neither so great
or general as to effect the revenue, and there-
fore he judged it might be struck out.
_Mr. Tucker thought with the gentleman from
Virginia, that the regulation was unnecessarv,
and that it would be better to throw it into the
common ma^s, taxable at a certain rate percent.
He therefore moved to have it struck out.

Upon these considerations the articles of beef,
pork, and butter, were all struck out.

Mr. FiTZSiMONs moved to lay a duty of two
cents on all candles of tallow per pound.

Mr. Tucker observed, that some States were
under the necessity of importing considerable
quantities of this article also, while others had
enough, and more than enough, for their own
consumption, therefore the burthen would be
partially borne by such States. As the commit-
tee had just rejected some articles upon this
principle, he would move that this be struck
out likewise.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs.— I am not for striking out,
sir. Every article imported into the State
that gentleman represents, from which revenue
is to be raised, he moves to have struck out; but
I wish the committee to consider a moment be-
fore they join in sen tinients with him. The
manufacture of candles is an important manu-
facture, and far advanced towards perfection.
I have no doubt but, in a few years, we shall be
able to furnish sufficient to supply the consump-
tion of every part of the continent. In Penn-
sylvania we have a duty of two>pence per pound,
and under the operation of this small encourage-
ment the manufacture has gained considerable
stiength. We no longer import candles from
Ireland or England, of whom a few years ago
we took considerable quantities; the necessity
of continuing those encouragements which the
State Legislatures have deemed proper, exist
in a considerable degree; therefore it will be po-
litic in the Government of the United States to
continue such duties till their object is accom-
plished.

Mr. Tucker would be glad to know what
article it was that South Carolina would not con-
tribute her full proportion of tax upon — he saw
none; on the contrary, so far as the enumera-

153

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

154

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 15, 1789.

tion went, the impost would bear unequally
upon her, and he feared many others in the list
would increase the imposition. He thought it
the duty of the committee to guard against an
unequal distribution of the piiDlic burthen in
every case, and therefore wished the duty on
this article to be a moderate one; not because it
affected the State he represented, for it did not
do this to any degree, as wax candles wore there
principally consumed, the material for which
was the production of the Suulhern States, but
because other States, not having this advantage,
might be oppressed.

Mr. BouDiNOT apprehended most States im-
ported considerable quantities of this article
from Russia and Ireland; he expected they
would be made cheaper than they could be im-
ported, if a small encouragement was held out
by the Government, as the materials were to be
had in abundance in our country.

Mr. Lawrence thought that if candles were
an object of considerable importation, they
ought to be taxed for the sake of obtaining re-
venue, and if they were not imported in con-
siderable quantities, the burthen upon the con-
sumer would be small, while it tended to cherish
a valuable manufacture. He seconded Mr.
FiTzsiMONs's motion for two cents: which was
carried in the affirmative upon the question be*
ing put.

On all candles of wax or spermaceti, per lb . six
cents; cheese, four cents; soap, two cents; boots,
per pair, fifty cents; on all shoes, slippers, or golosh-
es made of leather, ten cents; on all shoes or slip-
pers made of silk or stuff, ten cents; on all steel un-
wrought, per 112 lbs., .

Mr. Lee moved to strike out this last article,
observing that the consumption of steel was
very great, and essentially necessary to agri-
cultural improvements. He did not believe any
gentleman would contend, that enough of this
article to answer consumption could be fabri-
cated in any part of the Union: hence it would
operate as an oppressive, though indirect tax
up9n agriculture, and any tax, whether direct
or indirect, upon this interest, at this juncture,
would be unwise and impolitic.

Mr. Tucker joined the gentleman in his opin*
ion, observing that it was impossible for some
States to get it but by importation from foreign
countries. He conceived it more deserving a
bounty to increase the quantity, than an impost
which would lessen the consumption and make
it clearer also.

Mr. Clymer replied, that the manufacture of
steel in America was rather in its infancy ; but
as all the materials necessary to make it were
the produce of almost every State in the Union,
and as the manufacture was already establish-
ed, and attended with considerable success, he
deemed it prudent to emancipate our country
froni the manacles in which she was held by
foreign manufactures. A furnace in Philadel-
phia, with a very small aid from the Legislature
of Pennsylvania, made three hundred tons in two
years, and now makes at tiie rate of two hundred

and thirty tons annually, and with a little further
encouragement would supply enough fur the
consumption of the Union. He hoped, there-
fore, gentlemen would be disposed, under these
considerations, to extend a degree of patronage
to a manufacture which a moment's reflection
would convince them was highly deserving
protection.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS judged that the gentlemen
who were against the article had taken fur
granted what was not founded in fact. It was
said, that it would operate as an oppressive tax
upon agriculture, and could not be obtained
otherwise than from foreign countries. The
first objection depended upon the sum with
which the blank should be filled up; for his part,
he had not an idea of increasing it beyond five
shillings per hundred weight; this would affect
the agricultural interest very little, even sup-
pose it was to be paid upon all that was used;
but he hoped to prove that sufficient quantities
could be made in America for her consumption.
My colleague has stated, and 1 believe very
justly, that in Philadelphia they made, in less
than two years, three hundred tuns, and if the
demand was increased, they could manufacture
as many thousands, with a small encouragement
from tlie General Government. Suppose five
shillings per hundred weight was imposed, it
might be, as stated, a partial duty, but would
not the evil be soon overbalanced by the estab-
lishment of such an important manufacture?
— a great and principal manu tincture for every
agricultural country, but particularly useful in
the United States. When viewed in this light,
he had no doubt but every member of the com-
mittee would readily assent to a small duty.

Mr. Madison thought the object of selecting
this article to be solely the encouragement uf
the manufacture, and not revenue, for on any
other consideration it would be more proper,
as observed by the gentleman from Carolina,
(Mr. Tuoker) to give a bounty on the impor-
tation. It was so materially connected with
the improvement of agriculture and other man-
ufactures, that he questioned its propriety even
on that score. A dut^ would tend to depress
many mechanic arts in the proportion that it
protected this; he thought it best to reserve this
article to the non-enumerated ones, where it
would be subject to a five per cent. ad valorem.

Mr. Tucker considered the smallest tax oa
this article to be a burthen on agriculture, which
ought to be considered an interest most deserv-
ing protection and encouragement; on this is
our principal reliance, on it also our safety and
happinessdepend. When he considered the state
of it in that part of the country which he repre-
sented on this floor, and in some other parts ot the
Union, he was really at a loss to imagine witfi
what propriety any gentleman could propose a
measure big with oppression^ and tending to
burthen particular States. The situation of
South Carolina was melancholy; while the in-
habitants were deeply in debt, the produce of
the State was daily falling in price. Rice and

155

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

156

Afsil 15, 1789.]

Duties an Imparls.

[H. o»R.

lodigo were become so low, as to be considered
iiy many not objects worthy uf cultivation; and
gentieRien will consider, that it is not an easy
thing for a planter to change his whole system
of husbandry m a moment; but accumulated
burthens wifl drive to this, and add to their em-
harrassments. He thought an impost of five
per cent, as great an encouragement as ought to
he granted, and would not oppose that being
itid. He called upon gentlemen to exercise
liberality and moderation in what they propos-
ed, if they wished to give satisfaction and do
justice to their constituents.

Mr. FiTZ,s>iMONs thought, if gentlemen did not
get rid of local considerations* the committee
would make little progress. Every State will
feel itself oppressed by a duty on particular ar-
trcles, but when the whole system is perfected,
the burthen will be equal on all. He did not
desire, for his part, to obtain exclusive' advan-
tages for Pennsylvania^ he would contend, and
undertake to prove, that by the duties already
agreed to, that State sacrinced as much as any
other. Indeed, if he had said more, he believed
himself capable of proving the position. Being
tyfthis opinion, he hopeu the committee would
agree to grant her an advantage which would
revert back upon the other parts of the Union,
without operating, even for the present, to the
material disadvantage of any. Some States
were, from local circumstances, better situated
to carry on the manufacture than others, and
wuold derive some little advantage on this ac-
count in the commencement of the ousiness. The
Eastern States were so situated, perhaps some
of the Middle ones also; but wdl it therefore
be insisted upon, that the Southern States pay
more of the impost on foreign goods than these?
For his part^ he never could conceive that the
consumption of those articles by the negroes of
Sooth Carolina would contribute to the reve-
nae as much as that of the white inhabitants of
the Eastern States. But laying aside local dis-
tinctions, what operates to the benefit of one
part in establishing useful institutions, will
eventually operate to the advantage of the
whole. WitJi these considerations, he cheer-
fully submitted the article to the discretion of
die'committee, moving to fill the kdank with
sixtT-six cents.

Mr. fiuiND considered a tax of sixty-six cents
a very heavy duty on agriculture and the me-
chanic arts, and was averse to granting it.

Mr. BouniNOT moved fifty-six cents, which
motion was agreed to.

On nails and spikes, it was agreed to lay one cent
per pounds on tarred cordage, fifty cents per 112
pounds; on untatred cordage, sixty cents per 1 12
pmnda; on twine orpack-thread, one hundred cents
per lilt pounds.

Mr. Madison said, that he was not clear as to
the policy of taxing cordage, lie thought ship-
building an object worthy of legislative atten-
tion, and questioned the propriety of raising
tht price of any article that entered so material-
ly into the stracture of vessels. But if it was

1)S

politic to lay an impost on cordage, would it
not be tlie same with regard to hemp? He
thought it would, and therefore moved it.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — Hemp is a raw material,
necessary for an important manufacture, and
therefore ought not to be subject to a heavy
duty. If it was the product of the country in
general, a duty might be proper, but this he be-
lieved was not the case.

Mr. Madison. — I said before, I very much
doubted the propriety of laying a duty on such
articles as entered into ship-budding; but if it
is necessary to lay a duty on cordage for the
purpose of encouraging the manufacture, and
making us independent of the world as to tliat
article, it is also politic to endeavor to make U8
alike independent for the raw material; a great
proportion of the (and in the Western country is
peculiarly adapted to the growth of hemp, and
It might be there cultivated to advantage, if the
labors of the husbandman were protected by
the Government.

Mr. BoDMNOT thought the soil of this coun-
try ill adapted to the cultivation of hemp; even
the strong low lands which are fit for it, sooa
became exhausted; it impoverished the iands
wherever it grew, and destroyed the agricultu-
ral stamina. If he was not mistaken in this
opinion, he thought the committee would, with
him, disagree to the motion.

Mr. Partridge thought a duty on hemp
would tend to discourage the American naviga-
tion, her trade^ and fisheries^ without any good
resulting to warrant such an injury. It was not
ascertained whether hemp could be furnished
in any tolerable quantities to answer the de-
mand, and if, upon experience, it should be
found that the quantity was insufficient, what
a stab this would prove to all concerned in ship-
building.

• Mr. Ames expressed a doubt of the policy of
taxing either cordage or hemp, because while it
tended to encourage the agriculture or manu-
facture, it discouraged the maritime interest,
and therefore the discouragement, in the event*
would reflect back upon those interests it was
intended to cherish.

Mr. Moore declared the Southern States well
calculated for the cultivation of hemp, and,
from certain circumstances, well inclined there-
to. He conceived it the duty of the committee
to pay as much respect to the encourajgement
and protection of husbandry (the most import-
ant of all interests in the United States) as they
did to manufactures.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS thought there was a clear
distinction between taxing manufactures and
law materials, well known to every enlighten-
ed country. He had no doubt but hemp enough
could be raised for the home consumption, nay
for exportation also, and why it was not done
he could not say. He recollected that, before
the revolution, very little was importer; now,
considerable quantities are brought from Ens-
land. When such a bulky article is capable
of paying double freight, first from Russia and

157

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

I5S

H. OFit]

Duties on Imports,

[April 16, 1789*

then Troni Engbad^ besides its first cost, he
conceiTed that what was produced in America
had a very considerable advantage. It could
not be urged that the people are unacquainted
with the cultivation, because it had been car-
ried to verv great perfection in former years.
If eight dollars a hundred is not a sufficient in>
ducement to farmers to raise hemp^ it is a proof
that they direct their labors to more profitable
productions, and why shouhl legislative autho-
rity be exercised to divide their attention? Or
for this purpose, why should navigation and ship-
building be necessarily burthened. He conclud-
ed witli declaring, that no duty which the Con-
gress would agree to lay, could give encourage-
ment to the cufltivatioB of hemp, if the present
price of that ailicle was insufficient.

Mr. Scott stated a fact or two, being per-
haps as well acquainted with the Western coun-
try as any member of the committee. The
lands along the frontiers, he could assure the
committee, were well calculated for the culti-
vation of tiiis plant; it is a production that will
bear carriage by land better than any other, to-
bacco not excepted. He believed an encour-
agement of the kind now moved for would
bring, in a year or two, vast quantities from
that country, at little expense, to Philadctphij,
even from the waters of the Ohio; the innabi-
tants expect some encouragement, and will be
grateful for it. Although a gentleman has call-
ed it a bulkv article, yet as much can be pack-
ed upon a norse as a horse can carry,, or in a
wagon as four horses can draw; so that its bulk
will not prevent our countrymen from seeking
a market on the waters of the Atlantic.

The committee rose and reported, and

The House adjourned.

Thursday, April 16»

A bilMo regulate the taking the oath or affir-
mation prescribed by the sixth artiele of the con-
stitution, was read the second time, and order-
ed to be committed to a Committee of the
whole House on Monday next.

The House proceeded, by ballot, to the ap-
pointment of a committee of five, to attend, with
a committee from the Senate, to receive the Pre-
sident of the United States at such place as he
shall embark at from New Jersey for this city.

The members elected were Messrs. Boudi-
KOT, Bland, Tttcker, Benson, and Law-
rence.

On motion,
' Ordered^ That Messrs. Oilman, Ames, and
Gale, be a committee, in conjunction with a
committee from the Senate, to wait upon the
Vice President of the Unitetl States upon his
arrival in this city, and to congratulate him
thereupon in the name of the Congress of the
United States.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS,

The House again resolved itself into a com-
mittee of the whole on the State of the Union,
Mr- Pagk in the Chaii,

Mr. Hartley. — Notwithstanding what gen-
tlemen had said yesterday to enforce the pro-
priety of laying a duty on hemp,, it was in the
knowledge of every gentleman, that America
did not furnish this article in quantities suf-
ficient for its consumption; any restraint, there-
fore, on the importation of the raw material
would strike at the root of the manufacture. A
contrary policy was pursued by England in all
cases where a i*aw material was necessarily im-
ported. He conceived that (he sense of the
committee was already expressed to counte-
nance the making of cordage, which is a most
necessary and valuable branch of ship-building,
therefore he doubted the policy of the proposed
measure, but, for the sake of conciliation, he
would agree to a very small duty.

Mr. MooRK thought it good policy to encour-
age the manufacture of cordiige, but was not
convinced that it was bad policy to encourage
likewise the growth of the raw material ii^
America, so tnat we might become as indeperi-
dent of all the world for this article, as we are
already for every other used in the structure oi'
vessels. He believed it would be difficult ti>
persuade the farmer that his interest ought to
be neglected to encourage particular artisans r
he therefore begged the committee to do a»
much for them as was in their power, believing
that the event of such policy would mutually
benefit the manufacturer and agriculturist.

Mr. Heister remarked, that a heavy duty
on hemp would not encourage the laising'of it
this year, because the time was elapsed for com-
mencing the cultivation^ but a duty, to take
place at some future time, would no doubt be
beneficial. He assured the committee of the
ability of the land in America to grow hem{>-
equal to any part of the world; and, therefore,
joined heartily in giving it legislative encour-
agement, in Older to induce the people to turn
their attention more particularly to the subject,
but would recouuuend the duty to be laid so as.
to commence its operation at a distant day.

Mr. White remarked, wluit was good policy
in England miglit be the contrary in America^
England was a maritime nation, and. therefore
-she gave a bounty on such articles as were re-
quisite to support her maritime importance —
America was an agricultural country,and there-
fore ought to attend to the encouragement of
that interests if the Legislature take no notice
of this article, the people will be led to believe
it is not aa object worthy of encouragement,
and the spirit of cultivation wi|l be damped f
whereas, if a small duty only was laid, it
might point out to them that it was desirable,
and would induce an increase of the q^uantity.
Our lands are capable of bearing this plant
many years without being exhausted. He could
not say exactly what sum would be pioper to
fill the blank with, but mentioned seventy -five
cents for the consideration of the committee.

Mr. Partridge admitted tlie propriety of
encouraging agriculture, but it ou^ht nut tu be
done at the expense of the ship-builders, espe-

159

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

160

April 16, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. or R.

cially as the good would not balance the evil.
He told the committee that hemp had risen,
within three or four years, forty per cent« in
Russia, owing, perhaps, to the increased de-
•nand wliich the present northern war occasion-
ed. This naturally operated to encourage the
cultivation in America, and pcihaps was suffi-
cient, without the aid now intended to be given.
If gentlemen were desirous of having it stand
among the selected articlest he should not ob-
ject, but hoped the duty would not exceed five
fier cent. Forty cents were about equal to that
rate, and he moved to fill the blank with that

sum.

Mr. Lawrence. — A high duty would prevent
the importation of hemp, and encourage that of
cordage; so that the raw material would be les-
sened for the manufacture, and the quantity of
foreign ready-made cordage increased. The
effect of this would be the annihilation of the
manufacture, without any advantage to the
husbandman; for when sufficient quantities
could be raised, there would be no person to
work it up; or, if gentlemen persisted in laying
a duty on hemp, they must agree to reconsider
that on cordage, for the purpose of raising it,
in order to make the two bear such a propor-
tion, as that the home manufacture mignt have
a preference over the foreign.

Mr. Goodhue was disposed to lay a duty on
hemp for the purpose of encouraging the culti-
vation, but he did not think that the duty on
cordage was proportioned to what the gentle-
man irora Virginia (Mr. White) had proposed
on hemp. He therefore insisted on the proprie-
ty of raising the foimer.

Mr.PASTRiDGE informed the committee, that |
the State of Masp.achusetts imposed onljra duty
of one per cent, on the importation of hemp,
which was applied to form a bounty of a dollar
per hundred weight on that raised within the
State.

Mr. BouoiNOT took it for granted that hemp
would be subjected to a duty, and accorded
with the gentleman from Massachusetts in mak-
ing it forty cents. He thought this would com-
bine the two interests in such a manner as to do
the most good and least evil. He confessed
that he was against taxing this article, because
of the uncertainty which he conceived there was
of raising it in America; but as that point was
determined against him by the testimony of
gentlemen well qualified to judge, lie would ac-
quiesce in laying a small duty.

Mr. Hartley preferred giving a bounty on
hemp of American growth, to taxing the foreign,
becatise the existence of the manufacture, and
of ship-building also, was involved in the price
of the raw material. He hoped America would
soon become in reality what nature had destin-
ed her to be^— a maritime nation. He therefore
could not think it good policy to pursue mea-
sures which must cramp the growth of a fleet.

Gentlemen had made some remarks upon a
country well qualified for the cultivation of
hemp; he believed what had been advanced I

was fact. He should say nothing at this time
to ascertain how far it would be proper to en*
deavor to settle the Western country. Though
he had a real friendship for that new world, yet
the policy of taxing the navi^tion of the Atlan-
tic States for the purpose ot encouraging their
agriculture, was a question worthy of some con-
sideration. He would add no more, but a wish
that the committee would lav the duty low.

Mr. MooRB made some observations on the
propriety of encouraging the home manufac-
tures. It had already been mentioned as in-
congruous to blend the subject in the present
bill, therefore would say nothing on that point;
but it was undoubtedly the interest of the hus-
bandman to get what he wanted at the cheapest
rate. By the encouragement given to manufac-
tures you raise them in price, while a competi-
tion is destroyed which tended to the advantage
of agriculture. He thought the manufacturing
interest ought not to stand in the way of the
other; but as the committee had agreed to
give it encouragement, he hoped the other would
receive its share of legislative support. Seven-
ty-five cents on hemp will not more than equal
what was laid on cordage, and therefore he
should vote for it

Mr. White thought with the gentleman from
Pennsylvania, that the United States would fur-
nish this article in sufficient abundance, not
only for home consumption, but for exportation.
The maritime powers of £urope do not raise
the article, but obtain it principally from Rus-
sia— these powers are as well disposed to take
it from us as from Russia. Our back lands are
extremely well adapted to its cultivation; a
road to bring it to market is opening; the Poto-
mac extends her now navigable waters into the
interior country, and a communication will be
established with the river Ohio and the western
waters. The gentleman from Pennsylvania
(Mr. Hartley) had hinted at the propriety of
settling the western territory; it was his opinion
that every encouragement ought to be eiven
them to engage their affection; that the aJinin-
istration ot the Government ought to be such
as to §ive satisfaction to all parts of the Union,
but it IS peculiarly our interest to render that
country advantageous; her fertile lands, and
streams easy of descent, would pour into the
Atlantic States, through the channels he had
mentioned, a profusion of wealth, and hemp in
abundance. Ihe Shenandoah river disembogues
into the Potomac, the South Branch communi-
cates with it also, and a number of other rivers
whose lands will produce immense quantities.
He considered that this, in a short time, would
do more towards encouraging ship-building than
a bounty, as had been mentioned by some gen-
tlemen.

Mr. ScoTT thought he had as perfect a sense
of the relation between agriculture and com-
merce, as any man; in a word, he knew the
one could ill exist without the other. I think,
adds he, that if the landed interest is ruined
by our regulations, the ruin of the manu-

161

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

162

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 16, 1789.

facturing interest must be a necessary conse-
quence. Our country furnishes none of the
precious metals or jewels; we have nothing to
depend upon but the products of the soil, and
the overplus of these productions is of little
value, unless a market takes it ofiH We have
no market but what our merchants procure;
hence the necessity of both interests going hand
in hand — ^they must stand or fall together. Agri-
culture is entitled to its proportion of encour-
agement, so also are manufactures and com-
merce, and for no more than that proportion do
I contend. Manufactuers are useful establish-
ments; we found their convenience in the last
war; but our circumstances do not admit us to
become an extensive manufacturing country.
AVe cannot contemplate the exportation of our
manufactures to foreign nations; we cannot, by
reason of the demand for labor, vie with Eu-
rope; her inhabitants are numerous, and their
industry would be lost unless employed in the
arts; the compensation made to them is com-
paratively small. But our country, from its
extent, is like a world within itself, and its in-
habitants will find a readier support from culti-
vating the land than from manufacturing; the
latter interest is limited from its verjr nature;
80 that I take it for granted it is not intended
to sacrifice the one interest to the other. 1 said
yesterday, that a small duty on imported hemp
would produce a great quantity from a country
now useless to us in a considerable decree.
Hemp will bear the expense of carriage,
which no kind of grain can; and, consequently,
increase the value of our vacant territory; but
if tliere was no convenience by the route of the
Potomac, or across the mountains, to bring to
your seaports the hemp which you want, yet
the Mississippi would furnish the means; and,
with the encouragement, nay, but small encour-
agement, of the Ueneral Government, more of
this article would issue out of the mouth of that
river alone than the whole of the United States
could consume. We who live there are no
strangers to its navigation, nor do we find it dif-
ficult to construct boats of great dimensions,
capable of floatins down many tons; but large
quantities will be furnished also from the strong
and vizorous lands in the back parts of Penn-
sylvania and other States. I know very well
l)oth the nature of the plant and its cultivation.
It will exhaust lands, as said by the gentleman
from New Jersey, (Mr. Boudinot.) but it is
not to be apprehended as doing injury to those
I have described. Considering this business
of great importance to the whole Union,' I
ahall be in favor of it, knowing that if the peo-
ple on the other side of the mountains only hear
of the encouragement being proposed by Con-
gress, they wiiriay hold of it as a hope, and be
encouraged to draw forth the bounties of nature
from a rich and fertile soil.

Mr. Burke thought it proper to suggest to
the committee what might be the probable ef-
fiect of the proposed measure in the State he
represented, (South Carolina,) and the adjoin-

ing one (Georgia. ) The staple products of that
part of the Union were hardlv worth cultiva-
tion, on account of their fall in price; the
planters are, therefore, disposed to pursue some
other. The lands are certainly well adapted to
the growth of hemp, and he had no doubt but
its culture would be practised with attention.
Cotton is likewise in contemplation among
them, and if good seed could be procured^ he
hoped it might succeed. But the low, strong, rice
lands, would produce hemp in abundance —
many thousand tons even this year, if it was not
so late in the season. He liked the idea of lay-
ing a low duty now, and eneouragine it against
the time when a supply might be had from our
own cultivation.

Mr. Madison feared seventy -five cents wa»
too high; he was doubtful whether it would not
have been as well to have left out cordage; for if a
duty on hemp was impolitic because it burthen*
ed navigation, so also was that on cordage. He
by no means approved of measures injurious to
ship-building, which he considered in a three-
fold view: first, as it related to vessels employ-
ed in the coasting trade; second, as it respected
those employed in those channels of tracle, the
stream of which depends upon the policy of fo-
reign nations; and third, as it was connected
with vessels built for sale. With respect to
the first, no doubt but we can prevent any dis-
couragement from the operation of the duty,
because we can make such discrimination as
will prevent a rivalship; but, in relation to the
two other points, and particularly the last, he
was sensible that every penny laid upon cord-
age would enter into the price of the vessel^
and, by raising the price, drive the purchasers
to seek a better bargain at other hands. Fear-
ful therefore of injuring this interest, he should
vote for a small duty at present, in hopes of be-
ing able to see, in a little time, sufficient quan-
tities of hemp brought, to market, as predicted »
at even a less price than is given now for the
imported.

Mr. Smith agreed to forty cents, provided
the committee would make it one dollar at the
end of two years.

Mr. Madison could not judee of the altera-
tion in the circumstances of this country two
years hence, and therefore did not like the
kind of provision mentioned. He preferred
making it a positive sum, and moved fitty cents;
which was agreed to.

On malt.

Mr. Sherman thought this might be struck
out, on the same principle that mef and pork
had been, there was none imported.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs replied^ tliat there had been
considerable and recent importations of this
article into the United States— 30,000 bushels
in one year; certainly this interferes with the
products of the country. He moved ten cents
per bushel, and it was agreed to.

On motion of Mr. Ames, barley was taxed
six cents, and lime one hundred cents. He
just stated that these articles were imported in

163

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

164

April 16,1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H.ofR.

considerable quantities from a neighboring State
that had not yet adopted the constitution; and,
perhaps, said he, our political situation is such
as to make some regulation on this head neces-
sary.
On nails, spikes, tacks, and brads.
Mr. Lee did not think we were ripe for such
extensive manufactures as some gentlemen
seemed desirous of encouraging; but this was
particularly objectionable, because it was a tax
npon the improvement of estates, unless the ar-
ticles could be furnished as cheap and abun-
dantly at home as they were b^ foreign nations.
He moved to strike it out.

Mr. Madison conceived this, like a tax on
hemp, would increase the price on ship -build-
ing; spikes and nails were necessary for the
construction of vessels.

Mr. Bland thought a duty on nails an un-
equal tax, burthening the Southern States, but
Dot felt by the Northern, who made only enough
for their own consumption; he opposed it also on
account of its being an article ot indispensible
necessity.

Mr. Goodhue informed the gentlemen who
were opposed to a duty on nails, that great
quantities of them were manufactured for ex-
portation in Massachusetts and Pennsylvania,
and he believed some other States; and, in a
little time, enough might be made to supply all
North America.

Mr. Axes thought this a useful and accom-
modating manufacture, which yielded a clear
S^n of all it sold for, but the cost of the mate-
rial; the labor employed in it would be thrown
away, probably, in many instances. It could
not be said that it required a large capital, or
extraordinary abilities, to acquire a knowledge
of the art. It has grown up, with little encour-
agement, to an astonishing degree of perfec-
tion; it has become usual tor the country peo-
ple in this State to erect small forges in their
chimney corners, and in winter, and on even-
ings when little other work could be done, great
quantities of nails were made even by children;
perhaps enough might lie manufactured in this
way to supply the continent. These people take
the rod iron of the merchant, and return him
nails; in consequence of this easy mode of bar-
ter, d^e manufacture is prodigious!/ great. Bui
these advantages are not exclusively in the
hands of the people of Massachusetts; the busi-
ness can be prosecuted in a similar manner in
every State exerting equal industry. He hoped
the article would remain in the bill.

Mr. Sherman. — ^The gentlemen object to
these articles because they are necessary, and
cannot be furnished in quantities eaual to the
demand; but I am of opinion, if tne}[ cannot
BOW be had in such plenty as is wished for, they
Bay in a very short time. Every State can
manafacture them, although they cannot make
nail rods. Connecticut has excellent iron ore,
of which bars are made; but she sets nail rods
from this city— -others can do the Tike; and un-
til every State can supply themselves, by their

own industry, for which purpose they have
every thing at their hands, it may not be amiss
for the Government to ^et some revenue from
the consumption of foreign nails.

Mr. Tucker judged, from what was said of
the little expense and great facility of manufac-
turing nails, that it stood in no need of legisla-
tive assistance. Why lay a duty on foreign
nails, when they cannot nval you if you make
them as good and as cheap? Will not the five
per cent, duty, with freight and shipping char-
ges, be sufficient encouragement? He thought
it would, and therefore was averse to any other
duty. He observed also, that it would burthen
ship-building, and|was, consequently, against
those employed in that business.

Mr. Partridge observ<;d, that, to the east-
ward, no spikes at all were imported, and few
or no nails, except of some particular kinds. If
spikes were not imported to the southward, he
would join gentlemen in striking them out.

Mr, Ames thought it proper to add a few
more observations. The committee were alrea-
dy informed of the flourishing condition of the
manufacture, but they ought not to join the
gentleman from South Carolina (Mr. Tucker)
in concluding that it did not therefore deserve
legislative protection. The commerce of Ame-
rica, particularly the southern parts, had, by
the force of habit and English connexions, been
setting strong upon the British coasts; it requir-
ed the aid of the General Government to divert
it to a more natural course. Good policy and
sound wisdom demonstrated the propriety of an
interchange between the different States in the
Union: to procure this political good, some force
was necessary. Laying a small duty on foreign
manufactures might induce, from motives of in-
terest as well as inclination, one fellow citizen
to barter with, or buy nf another, what he had
t>een long accustomed to take from strangers^
Allowing this remark its due weight, he had no
doubt but the committee would concur in lajr-
ing a small protecting duty in favor of this
manufacture. Again: from the situation uf the
manufacturer in Europe, and the one in Ameri-
ca, he concluded this encouragement was ne-
cessary. In Europe, the artisan is driven to la-
bor for his bread; stern necessity, with her rod
of iron, compels his exertion; but in America,
invitation and encouragement are necessary;
without them the infant manufacture droops,
and its patron seeks, with success, a competen-
cy from our cheap and fertile soil.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs was not very solicitous about
the duty. He thought the manufacturer would
have but little to apprehend if tlie Legislature
should decide against them; for, the tact was,
that nails were at this moment made cheaper,
and, in the opinion of some judees, better than
those coming from England. Before the revo-
lution, the people in America were not per-
mitted to erect slitting mills. Thev now have
several, and are independent of all the world
for the materials necessary for carrying on the
1 business in the most extensive manner. So far

165

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY.

166

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 16, 1789.

as the dutjr respected the manufacture in Penn-
sylvania, it was his opinion that refusing it
would do no material injury, and he believed it
would draw but little money into the treasury;
yet, nevertheless, he was willing fo allow a
small one, because it conformed to the policy of
the States, who thought it proper, in this man-
ner, to protect their manufactures. He believ-
ed neither spikes nor nails for ship-building
were imported; they were generally large and
heavy, and were made in the country, accord-
ing to the builder's orders.

On the motion, nails and spikes were taxed
one cent per pound, but tacks and brads were
struck out.

On salt, per bushel.

Mr. Burke. — I need not observe to the com-
mittee that this article is a necessary of life,
nor that black cattle, sheep, and horses do not
thrive without it; on these considerations alone
I should oppose it; but I know likewise that it
is a tax particularly odious to the inhabitants
of South Carolina and Georgia, to whom the
price is already oppressively great. The back
parts of that State are obliged to haul all they
consume, two, three, or four hundred miles in
wagons, for which they pay about seven shil-
lings sterling. Add this to the first cost, which
is^bout one shilling, though sometimes more,
and you will find the burthen sustained by
those who live remote from the sea-shore suffi-
ciently unequal. I hope, therefore, the com-
mittee will not agree to it.

Mr. Lawrence hoped a duty would be laid
on the article; it was in general use, and the
consumption so regular, that it was much to be
depended upon as a source of revenue; but the
duty ought not to be so high as to make it op-

r^ressive. The additional burthen to those who
ive remote from the coast will not be unrea-
sonable; they will pay no greater impost than
every other class of consumers, and the tax
mixing with the price will be less sensibly felt.
The remote settler does not pay on other arti-
cles eaual to the inhabitant who resides near
the Atlantic. He does not consume the linen
and cloth of Europe, the tea of the East, the
sugar and spirits of the West Indies, in any
thing like such proportion. Can he be said
then to be oppressed with a small and equal tax
upon salt, an article which is consumed equally
in the interior and exterior country? He cer-
tainlv cannot. But there is one observation
which may be urged as an objection; being
aware of this, he would propose, at a proper
time, the allowance of a drawback upon all
salted fish and provision exported. He moved
to impose a duty of six cents per bushel.

Mr. Tucker felt an aversion to laying a duty
on salt from several motives. It would bear
harder upon the poor than upon the rich. The
true principle of taxation is, that every man
contribute to the public burthens in proportion
to the value of his property. But a poor man
consumes as much salt as a rich man. In this
point of view, it operates as a poll-tax, the most

odious of all taxes; it does not operate simply
as a piill-tax, but is heavier on the poor than on
the rich, because the poor consume greater

3UHntitie8 of salted provision than the rich. Nor
oes it bear equally upon every part of the
country; for it is consumed in a greater pro-
portion by cattle at a distance, than by those
near the sea-shores. Moreover, the duty col-
lected on the importation will enter into the
price of the article, and the countryman will
pay the retailer a profit on the tax, perhaps of
four times its amount. For which reasons, he
was more averse to this article being taxed than
any other whatsoever.

Mr. Scott declared himself decisively against
the duty, although he admitted a most certain
revenue could be drawn from it, on account of
its universal demand and utility. But he did
not think these considerations alone amounted
to a sufficient reason why this necessary arti-
cle should be taxed; if they did, the argument
would prove too much, it would extend to the
use of water and common air. He presumed
the old' arguments often urged by gentlemen in
favor of manufactures did not apply, because no
encouragement would be sufficient toestablish it.
From the nearest part of the Atlantic coast,
where salt can be obtained, to the next nearest
in the Western territory, is a distance of eight
hundred or one thousand miles: all the inter-
mediate space must be supplied from one or the
other; over the mountains it must be carried on
pack-horses. This of itself is a sufficient tax
upon the consumer; how oppressive then must
it be to increase the burthen.

It has been mentioned that this tax will be
an odious one. I have no pretension to the gift
of prophecy; but I am willing to let my name
go to posterity, in giving it as my opinion, that,
if you lay a hi^h duty on such an indispensable
necessary of life, it will be bad policy, and gu
nigh to shipwreck the Government. I have
reasons of a political nature to support my
opinion; but I do not think I should be justified
in mentioning them at present, but I will ven-
ture to say this much, that I fear it will have a
tendency to shake the foundation of your sys-
tem, which I look upon as the only anchor of
your political salvation. Will it not be wise,
therefore, to let the administration of your pow-
er slide gently along, inoiiensive to so great a
body? Let them become reconciled to your
views, before you stretch out the hand of op-
pression. Throw salt, if it must be taxed, into
the mass of articles, and lay your per cent, a
little higher to make up the deficiency. This
will be less odious, and, on the score of revenue,
amount to the same thing. I consider taxes in
this point of view: tlie exigencies of the Union
call for a sum of money annually; it must be
raised in some way by a tax on the community.
It is no matter to the individual, whether he
pays his proportion by a tax on salt, or any
other article he consumes, but the wisdom of
Government will direct which. The money
must be had from some source, and may be

167

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

16S

Awui. 17, 1789.]

Jhtiies on Imports.

[H. OF K-

taken from any; yet prudence will dictate to
obtain it by means the leas^ odious, the least
unpopolar, and most pleasing. Ail taxes, I ad-
miu are odious, but they are oompKrativet y so.
Let, therefore, this article be left out of the
enumeration, and do not apply to it until other
means have failed, because it would be a very
partial and most odious tax.

Mr. Moore observed u|)on the inequality, as
it respected the consumption of the article by
cattle; some States raised more than others,
consequently they consumed more; some parts
of the same State were in a like situation. The
people on the sea -coast pursued merchandise;
those in the back parts raised cattle, which he
was bold to say consumed five times as much
salt as the lower country, and would pay the
tax in tlie same proportion. It has been said,
that if they pay more on salt, they pay less on
other articles — ^agreed to. But there are a num-
ber more which may perhaps unequally atTect
them; yet it is an argument of small weight to
say, because we in large commercial cities are
regulated in a sumptuary mantier for indulging
in luxuries, you who are obliged to retrench
them shall pay a tax upon the necessaries of
life. In short, the tax appeared to him not only
uopopalar, but unjust likewise, and he would
not agree to it-
Mr. Smith (of South Carolina.) — If any
further arguments were necessary to convince
the committee of the impropriety of the present
measure, more might be ur^ed, though what has
been said is certainly sufficient to clemonstrate
that it will l>e attended with a great deal of dis-
satisfaction, and in proportion to that disFatis-
factioQ will be the danger of having your laws
contemned, opposed, or neglected iu the execu-
tion. It is well known, that however small the
duty, it will furnish a pretext to the seller to
extort a much greater sum from the consumer.
Another observation. It is believed that the
inhabitants of the interior part of South Caroli-
na are opposed to the new Government; it will
be a melancholy circumstance to entangle oup^
selves, at this time, among the shoals of dis-
content; yet no stronger impulse could be given
for opposition than the proposed tax; conceiv-
ing it in this light, he was against the measure.
Mr. SooTT added, that the price of salt
where he lived was four dollars a bushel, the
country was settled three or four hundred miles
beyond him, and he supposed the price there to
be greater.

Mr- Lawrence thought it would be better
for the committee to take time to examine what
had been urged against the tax, and as it was the
usual time lor adjourning, the committee might
rise and defer their decision till to-morrow.

Whereupon the committee rose, and the
Hon send journed.

Friday, April 17.

Benjamin Conteb, from Maryland, appear-
etl and took his seat.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House agAiti resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the state of the Union,
Mr. Paok in the chair; the question of laying a
duty on salt recurred.

Mr. Lawrence. — I had the honor yesterday
of delivering my sentiments in favor of this
duty; but observations were made by gentle-
men from different parts of the house against
the measure. The principal objection was, that
the tax was an odious one. It was admitted by
a worthy gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr.
Scott) that all taxes are odious; this h cer-
tainly true, for the people are not pleased with
paying them; nothing but necessity will induce
a Government to have recourse to them. It is
also true, that some are more odious than othfrs.
From what has been said, it mav be seen that &
tax on salt is not so in general, but only in par-
ticular parts of the Union; the remote inhabi-
tants, it is said, will be dissatisfied, because it
increases the price of the commodity, and they
use more of it than others. It is mentioned as
partaking of the nature of a capitation tax, but
this kincTof tax is odious, more from its man-
ner of operation than its nature. We find in
some States where it is in use, the people live
easy under it; for example, it is not complained
of in some of the Eastern States. We have not
much to apprehend from a tax on salt in this
State; the people are satisfied with it; at least
the complaints are neither so loud or so general,
as to make us apprehensive for the existence of
the Government we live under. Its operations,
though the contrary was predicted, go on with
as much ease since an impost has been laid, as
they did before. I believe, likewise, we have
only to try the experiment, to be convinced it
would have a similar effect throughout the con-
tinent; for I cannot persuade myself that it is
generally looked upon in so odious a light as
some gentlemen imagine. It was also said, that
the tax would be unequal, and the objects of
inequality were two. The poor man would pay
as much as the rich; but this is not the case;
the rich are generally more profuse in their
consumption tnan tlie poor: they have more
servants and dependents also to consume it;
consequently the whole amount of their con-
sumption must be in a proportionable ratio.
The other inequality was its different operation
in different States, and even different parts of
the same State. On examination, this objection
also may be obviated. Gentlemen tell you the
high price of this article at three or four hun*
dred miles distance; is it not hence presumable
that there they consume as little as possible,
while along the sea-coasts they use it with a
liberal hand? But whether it be consumed on
the sea-coast, or on the western waters, the
tax is the same, or but inconsiderably augment-
ed; for I take it the great addition which is
made is in consequence of the charge of car-
riage. I cannot, therefore, sec by what magic
gentlemen will prove to you that it is increased

i6d

GALES &. SEATON'S HISTORY

170

H. OF R.]

Dulita on Imports,

[April t7, 1789.

lour or five-fold. We mu!»t also take into con-
teni|>lation the number of persons who consume
it; here it will appear, that the weight of popu-
lation is much greater on the sea-coast than in
the western parts of Pennsylvania, Virginia,
and Carolina, consequently the consumption
must be greater. It was said, the argument I
urged was not a good one, because it proved
too much, that an article of general consump-
tion was not the best article tor taxation; now,
I believe the maxim is just, and when examin-
ed it will be found so. Taxes, to be just,
should affect all, and equally affect them, and
not be left to fall partially upon a few. This is
more the case with salt than any other article
which has )ret been taxed, and I believe is the
only tax which will get at the pockets of those
to whom it is said to be obnoxious. But how
^omes it, if the other articles are equally con-
sumed in the back countries, that gentlemen
did not urge the argument of expense on trans-
portation, and the pretext that a tax would fur-
nish the seller to extort from the consumer.

I believe gentlemen will find it difficult to
point out any kind of support which they give
to Government, if this duty shall be refused;
yet it was hinted that the Government would
be endangered if they were called upon for this.
We are now entering on. a subject of a delicate
nature, and I wish to treat it as such: but I will
not suppose the Government hazarded by mak-
ing a revenue law that is right and justifiable
on general principles; if it is, upright men may
be willing to risk the consequences. The in-
habitants of every part may find in this law
some article more burthensome on theip than
that particular article is on every other part;
but yet the a^regate paid by them towara the
-exigencies otH^overnment is equalled by a dis-
proportion in some other article.

If I did not think the object before the com-
mittee of great importance, I would not con-
sume their time in contending for it; but, rely-
ing on it as an equitable and veiy productive
fund, i must trespass a few words further.
This article is of general consumption; perhaps
it may be averag^ at three bushels to a family
annually; the tax on this will be li^ht, none can
be oppressed, and yet it will bring into the
treasury a very large sum. If any family con-
sumes more, and expends it upon their cattle,
it ought to be considered that it enters into the
price of the cattle when brought to market, and
ultimately falls upon the consumer.

Mr. MooBK said yesterday, that the duty
would operate unequally; he thought so then,
and had not yet altered his opinion, oecause the
back inhabitants consumed five times as much
as those on the sea-coast; he had expressed no
apprehension that the duty would endanger the
Government.

Mr. Madison.— From the nature of the argu-
ments made use of on this occasion, it is ne-
cessaiy to proceed with some circumspection,
though not to depart from that policy which can
be justified by reason and experience, I am

willing to trust a great deal to the good sense,
justice, and penetration of our fellow citizens
for support; and though I think it might be just
to lay a considerable duty generally on import-
ed articles, yet it would not be prudent or poli-
tic, at this time, to do so. Let us now proceed
to consider the subject before us, on the princi-

Eles of justice and principles of policy. In the
rst point of view, we may consider the effect
it will have on the different descriptions of peo-
ple throughout the United States, I mean dif-
ferent descriptions, as they relate to property.
I readily agree that, in itself, a tax would be
unjust and oppressive that did, not fall on the
citizens according to their degree of property
and ability to pay it; were it, therefore, this
single article which we were about to tax, 1
should think it indispensable that it should
operate equally, agreeably to the principle I
have just mentioned, fiut in order to deter-
mine whether a tax on salt is just or unjust, we
must consider it as part of a system, and judge
of the operation of this system as if it was but a
single article; if this is found to be unequal, it
is also unjust. Now, examine the preceding
articles, and consider how they affect the rich,
and it will be found that they bear more than a
just proportion according to their ability to pay;
by adding this article, we shall rather equalize
the disproportion than increase it, if it is true,
as has been often mentioned, that the poor will
contribute more of this tax than the rich.
When we consider the tax as it operates on the
different parts of the United States, dividing
the whole into the northern, middle, and south-
ern districts, it will be found that they contri-
bute also in proportion to their numbers and
ability to pajr. If there be any distinction in
this respect, it will be perceived to be in favor
of the southern division, because the species of
property there consists of mouths that consume
salt in the same proportion as the whites; but
they have not this property in the middle and
northern districts to pay taxes for. The most
important objection is, that the western part of
our country uses more salt than any other;
this makes it unequal^ but, considered as a part
of a system, the equdibrium is restored, when
you find this almost the only tax they will have
to pay. Will they contribute any thing by-
consuming imported spirits? Very little. Yet
this is a principal source of revenue: they will
subsist upon what they procure at home; and
will they submit to a direct tax, if they mur-
mur at so light a one on salt? Will they sub-
mit to an excise? If they would, I trust it is
not in the contemplation of gentlemen to pro*
pose it. Certainly it requires but time for re-
flection to discover, in eveiy point of view, the
justice of the measure now proposed. If, then,
there be no particular obgection on the footing
of justice, it must be an argument in favor of
the policy; fur it cannot be presumed that good
policy deviates from the principles of justice.
There may exist prejudices against measures
founded in the strictest justice and soundest

171

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

172

AFRtt 17, i78f .]

Dutiea on Imports,

[H.ofR.

policy; but certainly thev will flee before rea-
son and conviction. ^ "While in search of reve-
nue, for such essenthil and important purposes
as yxvffi us at present, we cannot discriminate,
and spare one part of the community. This
would be unjust^ and excite those complaints
which some gentlemen seem to fear.

It has been said, by the enemies of this Go-
vernment, that its administration would imme-
iliately betray the features of tyranny and op-
|>ression. It was likewise said, that its opera-
tions would be jsentle and insinuating at first,
m order to obtain the confidence of the people
to enable it to supplant the State Governments.
Would not a discriminatine policy seem to
make good these charges? Let us then avoid
it with caution, and endeavor to distribute the
public burthen with a just and equal hand. In
short, under whatever point of view you consi-
der this tax, I think it will be seen to be im-
proper to expunee it. I would make it mode-
fate, and, in so doing, it cannot be unjust, nor
can the pbpular clamor be excited.

Mr. Huntington had no apprehension of
clanger arising from the odiousness of the tax in
(he State he came from; his constituents would
inquire the reasons why it was imposed, and
when thev found it was from principles of jus-
tice, and to promote the public good, they
would pay it without i*eluctance. From the
nature of the article, he looked upon it as the
means of a certain and sure revenue, and if it
was not now used as such, it would be done on
^ome future occasion with considerable advan-
tajBie. In France, a duty was said equal to two
^uliiDCs and six- pence per bushel, which is
more tnan the value of the article; in England,
the duty was considerable, but cannot sav how
much. A duty of six cents per bushel here
would yield a great revenue, and no man would
feei the oppression. If it is alleged that it will
affect the husbandman or grazier with large
herds of cattle, are they not rich — at least rich
enough to pav six cents on a bushel of salt?
Certainly sucn a tax is too trifling to be much
complained of, even if it was unequal: but I
think it has been clearly demonstj-ated to be
otherwise.

Mr, Wjutb, aflter some doubts, had made
tip his mind against the article being taxed.
We ought to pass no law that is unjust or op-
pressive in its nature, or which the people may
consider as unjust or oppressive; a uuty on
salt would be considered in that light by a great
number. Our constituents expect some ease
and relief, particularly the poorer sort of peo-

£1e. It seems to be granted, from all that has
een said^ that it will affect them in a manner
which no other tax can, though, it is said, they
will not be affected beyond their proportion, as
thejr pay nothing for the consumption of wine,
spirits, &C. because they use none. One rea-
son which influenced the committee to tax
those articles, was to abolish the use of them
altogetlier, or prevent the excesses they occa-
sioned. Now will you urge in argument for

taxing the poor, that they already practise that
temperance which you desire to briiig univer-
siilly about. All taxes, it is admitted, are
odious, and some merely from opinion; but if
they are odious from opinion, they ought to be
carefully guarded against, especially if the
Government depends upon opinion for support.
The present constitution was ad9pted by a
small majority in some States, and in the opin-
ion of many is not so favorable to the rights of
the citizens as could be desired; wisdom and
prudence will, therefore, teach us not to exer-
cise powers under it which opinion may judge
oppressive. Considering the political state of
Kentucky and the Western country, we ought
to be careful how we give them umbrage;
means at this moment are using to detach them
from the Union, and place them in a different
situation. This may be promoted in some de-
gree by the slightest tax: for there are those
who would glaaly seize any advantage arising
from a discontent among our citizens. It can-
not be thought that this duty would be so pro-
ductive as to warrant the risk we run in op-
posing the public opinion.

Mr. Scott. — I grant that the policy of this
measure is mere matter of opinion^ as its advo-
cates have stated; it cannot be otherwise, be-
cause we have had no experience of it, and
every eentleman will form that opinion from
facts that have fallen under his knowled^.
Now, from the facts known to me, I doubt its
policy exceedingly; I would, therefore, be
clear for passing it over for the present. Per-
haps my local situation gives me an opportunity
to know these facts better than most members
on this floor, and this knowledge has prevail-
ed with me to be of opinion^ that the present
measure would have very destructive conse-
quences. I mean to give this opinion to the
committee; they will make such use of it as
they please; but, before I proceed furtlier, I
will just remark, that I do not tliink the rea-
sons on the point of justice well founded. I
think they have taken for eranted (acts that do
not exist It was supposed that the inhabitants
of the back countrvdid not use their proportion
of the other articles which were taxed. Are
we to believe that a bottle of Madeira, or of
rum, never crossed the Alleghany mountains,
or went more than fifty or one hundred miles
from the sea- coast? Sir, on the ^banks of the
Ohio, I must say, though I am sorry to say it,
there exists as great a rage for every species of
luxury, which the people can lay their hands
on, as there does even in the city of New York;
and how should it be otherwiser Have they not
tJie example from yourselves? If a country-
man comes among you for a time, is he not in-
itiated and accustomed to your manners? Will
he not too often carry home your fashions and
your vices? Certainly he will. Then why
should gentlemen suppose that these people do
not contribute their proportion on other arti-
cles? I can sit at a door in a country village,
five hundred miles from this place, and see

17S

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

174

H. OF R.]

Duiies on Imports.

[April 17, 178^.

Dine oat often of its iuhnbitants dress in Euro-
pean clothes* I can there procure wines, both
in quality and quantity, equal to those on the
sea-coast. If the people do not consume as
much there, it arises merely from their inabili-
ty to buy and pay for it; but they consume in
proportion to tneir property and weahh . N ow,
if the position, that people ought to pay taxes in

f proportion to their {property, be true, and I be-
ieve it is, and the inhabitants of the Western
country contribute equally their part on all
which has been laid, it remains only to inquire
how the duty proposed will operate. \ need
not repeat the arguments already used to' show
its ineauality. The gentleman frun» Virginia
(Mr. Madison) has ceded the point. He has
said, that if we were laying this particular tax,
it wodd be ait improper one, because of its ine-
auality. Now, then, I think it does come be-
fore us upon its own bottom; and as it is an
unequal one, so is it an improper one. What
is unjust is impolitic. On the principles of
Justice and policy, then, the measure ou^ht to
be rejected. I hope tne opposition, which is
apprehended, may not take place against your
CSovernment, as the wisdom and patriotism of
this body will never, I am satisneiF, furntsli
their enemies with weapons of destruction.

Mr. FiTzsmoNS felt hurt by some of the ar-
guments he had heard; whilst the Congress of
tne United States continue to act upon prinei-
ples of justice, they have little to apprehend
from their enemies. He hoped never to see anj
other principle govern them; it was paying their
constituents a bad compliment to say, that they
would oppose measures founded on such a basis;
for his part, he did not think so little of their
good sense and discernment. If gentlemen
had pmved that the proposed measure was
founcied in injustice, they would have some
pretext for exciting alarms, but he did not think
they had done this; he thought the contrary
position was better established! At first view,
it must be discernible that this article is of such
a nature as to insure the collection of the duty;
it is too bulky for smuggling; the average quan-
tity which a family would consume could not
exceed five bushels annually, this, at six cents
per bushel, is less than one-thirdofa doHar;
and are gentlemen seriotis when they talk of
this sum lieing so oppressive as to endanger the
Governmentr He knew very well, that this

{round had been tro<lden by almost every State
legislature on the continent, and address
enough had been used to make some think it an
unpopular measure^ but he could never see a
reason for this opinion. It had been urged that
we had better defer the subject under discus-
sion for the present, and take it up hereafter.
One reason whj^ he was in favor of high and
general duties, in the first instance, was toavoid
the imputation which had been laid a^inst the
administration of this Government by its oppo-
nents; he would not attempt to deceive the
people as to its powers; if a tax on salt will be
right some time hence, it is right now.

Mr. Smith, of Maryland, said, they colfeet-
ed eight cents hi hrs State, ana it caused n^^
complaint that he knew of.

The question on imposing six cents on salt
was put and carried, as was a motion for a draW'
back on salted provisions and fish.

On manufactured tobacco,

Mr. Sherman moved six cents, as he thought
the duty ought to amount to a prohibition, 'fhW
was agreed tOc

On snuff, ten cents per pound.r

Mr. Carroll moved to insert w.inilow and^
other ^lass. A manufacture of this article wa»
begun in Maryland, and attended with consid-
erable success^ if the Legislature were to grant
a sman encouragement, it would be ptpmanent-
ly established; tne materiafs were to be fiiund
in the country in sufficient quantities to answer
the most extensive demand.

A desultory conversation arose in the com-
mittee respecting the propriety of receiving the
motion at this time, when it was agreed to add!
on all window and other glass, except black
quart bott^es,. tea per cent* lul valorem*

Mr. Clyner- informed' the House of the state
of the paper mills in Pennsylvania; they were^
so numerous as to be able to snpply a very ex-
tensive demand in that and tne neighboring;
States; they annually produce about 70,000*
reams of various kinds, which is sotil as cheapo
as it can be imported.. This manufacture cer-
tainly is an important onef and liaving growth
up under legislative encouragement, it will ber
wise to continue it. Thereupon it was agreed
to lay an impost of seven and a half per cent,
ad valorem on blank books, writrirg, printing,,
and wrapping paper, and* pasteboard;, toe same,,
without debate^ was laid upon canes, walking-
sticks, whips, clothing ready made^ on gold^
silver, and plated ware, and on jewellery and
paste work; upon cabinet ware, buttons of
metal, saddles, gloves of leather, all hatsofbea*
ver» fur, wool, or mixture of either, all milline>
ry, castings of iron, or slit or ndled iron, all
leather tanned or tawed, or manufactures there-
of, except such as are otherwise rated*

On every coach, chariot, or other four wheel
carriage, and on every chaise, soUv or other two
wheel carriage; or parts thereof, fifteen per
cent, ad valorem.

CHAPLAINS, &c.

The committee rose; and the Speaker having;
taken the chair, a letter was received from the
Senate, communicating a reportof a joint com-
mittee, agreed to by the Senate, respectinjg the
appointment of Chaplains, and the mode ofcon-
ducting Gunfereoce; also an appointment of a
committee to confer with a committee of tlie
House on an eligible mode of conveying bilh^
papers, and messages. 'Fhe House coBcurred
m the report of the joint committee, and a^
pointed a committee to confer on toe subject
I proposed.— Adjourned.

175

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

176

April 18, 1789'.]

Duliu on Imports.

[H. or R.

Jtmm

Saturday, April 18.

^ Mr. Whitk^ from tlie Committee of Elec-
tions, reported ihat the committee had examin-
ed the certificates and other credentials of the
members returned to serve in this House, and
found them entitled to ta^ce their seats; which
report was concurred with.

A petition of the mechanics and manufactur-
ers of {\\^ citj of New York, whose names
are thereunto subscribed, was presented to the
House and read, setting forth that, in the pre-
sent deplorable state of trade and manufactures,
they look with confidence to (he operations of
the new Government for a restoration of both,
and that relief which they have so long and anx-
iously desired; that th^ have both subjoined a
list m such articles as can be manufactured in
the State of New York, and humbly pray the
countenance and attention of the national Le-
^lature titereto.

Ordered^ That the said petition be referred
to the Committee of the whole House on the
atate of the Union.

Mr. Cltmbr resorted, from the Committee
of Elections, to whom it was referred to report a
proper mode of investieating and deciding on
the petition of David Ramsay, of South Caro-
lina^ suggesting that William Smith, returned
a member of this House, as elected within that
State, was, at the time of his being elected, in-
«ligible4 that the committee had agreed to a
report tiiereapcm, which he delivered at the
Clerk's table, where the same was read, and or-
dered to lie on tlie table.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the stale «f tlie Union,
Mr« Paob in the chair^

On motion of Mr. Gooahue, anchors at seven
and a half per cent, ad valorem, was added.

On motion of Mr. Sherman, nutmegs, cinna-
mon, raisins, figs, currants, and almoncls, were
sitruck out.

Mr. Ames intradaced wool cards, with ob*
serving that they were manufactured to the
eastward as good and as cheap as the imported
Aiies.

Mr. Cltmsr mentioned, that in the State of
Pennsylvania, the manufacture was carried to
great perfection, and enough could be furnish-
ed to supply the demand. A duty of fifty cents
per dozen was imposed on wool cards.

On wrought tin ware« seven and a half per
centum ad valorem; on every quintal of fish,
fifty cents; and on every barrel of pickled fish,
seventy -five cents.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs moved tlie following;: ^' On
all teas imported from China or India, in ships
built in the United States, and belonging whol-
ly to a citizen or citizens thereof, as rollows:
oa bcAea tea. per pound, six cents; on all sou-
chong and other black teas, ten cents; on supe-
rior green teas, twenty cents; on all other teas,
ten cents.

On all teas imported from any other country,
or from China or Imiia,* in ships which are not
the property of the United States, as follows:
on bohea tea, per pound, ten cents; souchong,
and other black teas, fifteen cents; on superior
green teas, tliirty cents; on all other green teas,
eighteen cents per pound.

Mr. FiTzsiHONS supported the motion, by ob*
serving that one effect of the late glorious re-
volution )va8, to deprive the merchants of Ame-
rica of most of the channels of commerce which
they had before pursued. I1iis circumstance
obliged them to search for other sources to em-
ploy their vessels in. It had been discovered
that a pretty lucrative trade coaM be carried
on with the countries in the east; the merchants
have gone laiigely into it, and it at present gives
emplojjrment to some thousand tons of Ameri-
can shipping and seaaMsn; our success has beea
so great* as to excite the jealousy of Europe,
and nothing is left undone to cramp or prevent
our commercial operations in that quarter. The
Legislature of Pennsylvania, impi«6sed with
the importance of the suhiect, had granted it
aid by diacriroinating in the manner te propos-
ed to the committee; and -with the like aid (rom
the Government of tlie United States, the mer-
chants may no longer fear the machinations of
the opulent companies in Europe, who are un-
willing to let us partake of a trade they so long
have had a raonopohr of. Already the trade to
India hashad a very nappy effect in favor of our
inhabitants, by reducii^ commodkies brought
from thence to one half of their former price,
and yet a sufficient profit is left to enable those
concerned to carry it on with advantage.

Mr^ M ADisoM felt a reluctance in being oblig-
ed to state his reasons why he doubted Uie pol-
icy of the proposed measure^ What, said he,
is its oliject? It is not to add to the revenue,
for it will in fact tend to diminish it, in that

f proportion which the importation from China
essens that from other parts; it is not to in-
crease our commerce, for long voyages are un-
friendly to it^ it is not to increase the importa-
tion of necessary articles, for^ India goods are
mostly articles of luxury; it is not to.carrv off*
our superfluities, for these articles are paia for
principall;r, if not altogether, in solid coin. If
the trade is beneficial at all to the United States,
it must be in this single point of view, that the
articles can be imported cheaper through that
channel than any other; and, if so, that it is die
interest of the people to be supplied as cheap as
possible. There are no collateral good purposes
to claim our attention in this case. It is not in
the nature of things that we should derive anv
other advantage than the one I have mentioned,
without it is tnat of raising our India commerce
from its weak and infant state to strength and
vigor; to enable it to continue supplies at a
cheaper rate than they could otherwise be ob-
tained.

Mr. OooDRUB replied to Mr. Madison's ob-
servations, respecting the mode of paying for

177

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

178

H. OP R.]

Petition qf Churchman and Eamtay.

[April 90, 1789.

India goods, by informing the committee that
very considerable quantities of ginseng, naval
stores, lumber, and provisions, were snipped;
otlier articles were sent also, and disposed of
at ports on this side of China, in order to pro-
cure the roost suitable cargo; so that we do not
pay principally for their commodities in solid
coin, but send off superfluities to a considerable
amount, much more than if we were to procure
our teas and nankeens from any part of Eu-
rope.

Mr. Madison had not made the objection
merely because the specie was exported, but to
show that it did not bring in an equivalent, as
the goods were mostly of that kind which are
termed luxuries.

Mr. BouDiNOT declared himself a friend to
the Indian commerce. He thought it encour-
aged the employment of shipping, and increas-
ed our seamen; he knew its advantages to agri-
culture. The gentleman from Virginia, (Mr.
Madison) supposed but littieof our productions
were sent in exchange for India goods; but our
beef, pork,flour,and wheat, were shipped for this
purposet not to China, yet to ports where prn-

E»r cargoes were taken in to answer the trade,
ncouragement and protection were necess^ary
to prevent the large companies in Europe from
underselling our merchants, which they would
readily do, at considerable loss, if they could,
in consequence, put a stop to our trade. He
hoped, therefore, the committee would not hesi-
tate in adopting the motion.

The motion was adopted accordingly.

On coal per bushel cents.

Mr. Bland informed the committee, that
there were mines opened in Virginia capable <»f
supplying the whole of the United States snd,
if some restraint was laid on the importation of
foreign coal, those mines might be worked to
advantage. He thought it needless to insist
upon the advantages resulting from a colliery,
as a supply for culinary and mechanical pur-
poses, and as a nursery to train up seamen for
a navy. He moved three cents a bushel.

Mr. Hartley was willing to admit a moder-
ate duty, but thought three cents would be a
great cfiscoura^ement to those manufactures
which necessaritv consume large quantities of
fuel. He moved one cent.

Mr. Parker said, that a less sum than three
cents would not answer the purpose intended.
Coal came from England as ballast, and was
sold so low, as almost to prevent the working
of their mines in Virginia. He hoped, if the
committee were disposed to encourage them,
they would proportion the means to the end; a
duty of one cent would be void; nothing under
what was moved by his coUeaeue (Mr. Bland)
could answer the purp(»se. He hoped, there-
fore, the committee would agree to three cents.

On the question, there appeared a majority in
favor of three cents. After which the commit-
tee rose, and the Ht>use adjourned.

Monday, April 20.

Abraham Baldwin and J amss Jackson, from
Georgia, appeared and took their seats.

Mr. TucKXR, from the committee to whom was re-
ferred the petition of John Churchman and David
Ramsay, reported that the committee had» according
to order, had the said petitions under their consider*
ation, and agreed to a report thereupon f which he
delivered in at the Clerk's table, where the same
was twice read, and debated by clauses.

The first clause, in the words following, to wit:
"That the committee hare conferred with Mr.
Churchman, and find that he has made many calcu-
tions which tend to establisli his portion, that tliere
are two mag^tic points which give direction to the
needle; that upon this doctrine he has endeavored
to ascertain from a given latitude, and a given varia-
tion, what roust be the longitude of the place; and
having* applied his principles to many instances in
Cook's voyages, has found the result to correspond
with considerable accuracy with the real facts, as far
as they could be determined by the reckoning of the
ship: That the object to which Mr. Church-
man's labors are directed is confessedly of very high
importance, and his ideas on the subject appear to
be ingenious: That, with a view of applying them
to practice, he has contrived a map andaglobe^
whereby to show the angles which are made by the
intersection of the real and the magnetic meridians
in different parts of the earth: That he is also en-
gaged in constructing tables for determining the
longitude at sea upon magnetic principles: That the
committee are of opinion, that such eflPorts deserve
encouragement, and that a law should pass to secure
to Mr. Churchman, for a term of years, the exclu-
sive pecuniary emolument to be derived from the
publication of these several inventions;" was again
read, and, on the question put thereon, agreed to by
the House.

The second clause, in the words following, to wit:
"With respect to the voyage proposed by Mr.
Churchman to Baffin's Bay, the committee are eau-
tious of recommending, in the present deranged
state of our finances, a precipitate adoption of a
measure which would be attended with connderable
expense; but they are of opinion, that at a future day,
if Mr. Churchman's principles should be found to
succeed in practice, it would be proper to give fur-
ther encouragement to his ingenuity;" was again
read, and, on a motion made, was ordered to lie on
the Uble.

The third clause, in the words following, to wit:
'* On the subject of the petition of Doctor David
Ramsay, your committee report it as their opinion,
that a law should pass to secure to him tlie exclusive
right of publishing and vending, for a term of years,
the two works mentioned in the petition;" was read,
and, on the question put thereupon, agreed to by the
House.

On these clauses, the following debate took
place:

Mr. Madison — I wish that the committee
had stated the expenses attendinj^ a voyage to
Baffin's Bay, for the purpose of discovering the
cause of the magnetic variation, as proposed by
Mr. Churchman, that the House might be bet-
ter able to judge of its propriety. Well aware

179

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

180

April 80^ 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. OF R.

as 1 am that public bcxliet are liable to be as-
luled by >isionary prelectors, I nevertheless
wish to ascertain the probability of the magnet-
ic theory. Ifthere is any consicferable probabili-
ty' that the projected voyage would be success-
mi, or throw any valuable light on the discovery
of longitude, it certainly comports with the hon-
or and dignity of Government to give it their
countenance and support. Gentlemen will re-
collect, that some ot the most important disco-
veriea, both in arts and sciencies, have come
forward under very unpromising and suspicious
appearances.

I aoi also well aware that the deranged situa-
tion of our treasury would not warrant us in
ipendiDg considerable sums in visionary pur-
suits; but if an inconsiderable sum will answer
on this occasion, and there is a probability of
inproTing the science of navigation, 1 see no
reason against it. Gentlemen who have been
on the committee understand the subject best,
and they will please give the House their sen-
timents.

Mr. Whttb said, that the proposed voyage
had nothing to do with the principle of magnetic
variation; it was intended to ascertain the cause;
if the principle was true, it could be applied to
practice without knowing the cause, whioh pro-
duced it; therefore the committee had reported
in the manner before them.

Mr. BiTRRS understood from Mr; Church-
man, that it would take a small vessel about
four months, in the summer time, to be in the
h^ northern latitudes, attending him in his
researches into the cause of the magnetic varia-
tion. Bethought Mr. Churchman's theory in-
genioos and deserving patronage; but the voy-
age to Baffin's Bav was rather premature.

Mr. Page wished the committee to state
the expense, because he thought the Legislature
ought to assist Mr. Churchman in the voyage,
if it would not cost too great a sum. It is true
that the theory can be carried into practice
whether the cause is discovered or not; but as
the theory depends upon the cause, a knowledge
of this would demonstrate the truth of the other.
Mr. Churchman's system consists in applying
the magpetic variation to the discovery of lon-
gitude. He lays down two magnetic puints, to
which the needle is attracted* and a magrpetic
equator, defining the nature of the curves form-
ed by the magnetic meridians, the periods of
revoiation of the magnetic points, their courses,
latitudes and longitudes, their diurnal, RMUthly,
and annual situation, for any time past, pre-
sent, or to come, with rules to apply these prin-
ciplefl and materials to use. Mr. Churchman
establbhes the truth of this theory from calcula-
tions, compared with the actual observations
made by Captain Cook and others. Having ex-
amined scHne of the calculations, he was aston-
ished at the surprising aereement he found —
they generally agreed within a few miles, and
only one case where they differed more than a
degree, if the use of this discovery was as ex-
temWeas he imagined, and he had every reason

to believe it would be so, it was certainly a dis-
covery that would do honor to the American
name. He thought some advantage mig^ht be
derived from the projected voyage; and if the
expense did not exceed five or eight hundred
dollars, it might be prosecuted. If Government
did not lend their aid, he expected individuals
would patronize it, and furnish the means by
subscription. He expressed a willingness on
his part to join in such a measure, if the applica-
tion to the Legislature was unsuccessful.

Mr. Huntington delineated the system al-
so, and approved of it; but thought the voya^^e
would be unsuccessful, if for nothing else, for
the want of proper instruments. The use of
Mr. Churchman^s theory depended in a great
measure, upon obtaining the magnetic variation
with accuracy: for which purpose Mr. Church-
man contemplated some improvement on the
compass; if he was successful in this, the disco-
very would no doubt answer the otgect in view.

Mr. Sherman did not think the voyaee would
be of any help to the gentleman, and therefore
should agree to the report.

Mr. Tucker expressed a doubt whether
the Legislature has power, by the Constitution,
to go further in rewarding the inventors of use-
ful machines, or discoveries in sciences, than
merely to secure to them for a time the ri|;ht of
making publishing and vending them: in the
case of a doubt, he thought it best to err on the
safe side.

The House now decided upon the proposi-
tions of the committee, as before stated, and
ordered bills to be brought in, securing the right
of publishinx, &c. of their respective works, to
Jonn Churchman and David Ramsay.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the state of the Union,
Mr. Page in the Chair.

The following clause of the bill was agreed
to, viz: " On an other articles, five per cent, on
their value at the time and place of importa-
tion, except tin in pigs, tin plates, lead, old
pewter, brass, iron or brass wire, copper in
plates, wool, dying woods and dying drugs,
tother than indigo,) raw hides, beaver, and all
other furs, and deer skins."

Mr. FiTzsiMONS proposed a drawback of six
cents per gallon on all rum distilled in the
United States, exported without the limits of
tlie same.

Mr. Madison asked if the quantity of rum
so exported was very considerable? He believed
it was not; and he would not, for the sake of
encouraging that branch of trade, open a door
by which frauds on the revenue could be com-
mitted equal to the whole duty collected.

Mr. FiTzsiMONB could not say what quantity
of rum was exported in that way; but he feared,
unless a drawback was allowed, it would be a
great injury to the manufacture. At the time
the duty ol six cents on molasses was laid, he
thought it was understood, the committee would

181

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

182

II. opR.]

Duties on Imports.

[Aphil 90, naa.

allow a drawback on the rum exported. There
aeems to be an apprehension that the system of
drawbacks will operate to the disadvantage ol
the revenue; bat he believed a mode cuulU be
devised to prevent frauds, in this case, fully as
effectually as on the importation. If this was
not done, it would be time enough for gentle-
men to oppose it; they would have this opportu-
nity, because a bill, regulating the manner of
collection, he presumed, would pass at the
same time with the one for levying the duties.
If drawbacks were not allowed, it would be
a very considerable restraint on commerce,
particularly on the India tr^de, which he be-
lieved was likelv to be considerably extended.
He was sorry the gentlemen from Massachu-
setts were not there in their places,* to give in-
formation to the committee respecting the quan-
tity expurted from that State; from Pennsylva-
nia the quantity was but small.

Mr. Lawrence could give no exact informa*
tion relative to t!)e quantity of New York rum
exported, but, from what he understood, suppos-
ed it to be about one thousand hotheads annu-
ally; it was entitled to a drawback, and there
was no reason to believe this had been the oc-
casion of frauds on the revenue: he should
agree to tlie measure.

Mr. Madison was sorry the gentlemen from
Massachusetta were absent, because they could
give authentic information with respect to the
quantity. He had in his hands a statement of the
exports from Massachusetts, which he believed
to be pretty accurate, from January 1st, to
December 31st, 1787. From this it appeared,
that there were exported during that period, to
Nova-Scotia, eighty-nine hogsheads; to Europe,
one hundrea and thirty-four hogsheads, and
eight hundred and ninety-seven to Africa and
the East Indies. Now he submitted to the com-
mittee, how far it was proper to adopt a mea-
sure for- such a trifliiiig consideration, which
would become a must dangerous cover to the
clandestine trade that must necessarily follow.
Rum will, no doubt, be exported in the day and
brought back in the nisht, for the sake of draw-
ing back the duty, as has been done already in
similar cases.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs contended for drawbacks
generally, but on this article it was particular
injustice to omit it. The manufacture of rum
was of considei*able importance in the Eastern
States, but it would not be able to stand a suc-
cessful competition with West India rum in
foreign countries, while loaded with a duty of
six cents per gallon. The tax on molasses was
that sum* and he looked upon it to be the same
thing as if it had been paid on the rum at distil-
lation; one gallon of the former yielding but one
of the latter.

Mr. Madison thought there were very few
cases in which drawbacks ought to be allowed,

* The delegates from that SUte were gone to meet
the Vice-Pretidentf who was expected in town this
day.

perhaps none but what related to the East India
trade. The small proportion of distilled rum
exported did nut justify so great a risk; but of
the small proportion which went abroad, the
greatest part went to the coast of Africa. He
leared this trade was inconsistent with the good
of mankind, and ought to be repix^bated instead
of encouraged. If gentlemen were to consider
the great advantages derived to the distillers
from the present Government, they would per-
haps think them sufficient for their encourage-
ment without allowing drawbacks. The annual
exportation from Massachusetts to the several
ports of the United States is five thousand jhree
hundred and twenty-seven hogsheads. This
quantity was formerly subjected to an equal du-
ty with the West India rum. If, under these
circumstances, country rum could command
this great sale, what will it do now when the
communication is free, and many parts of the
United States laid open to this trade, that was
shut before? This consideration alone ought to
do away all complaints for want of a drawback.

Mr. Bland said the committee had spent se-
veral days in encouraging manufactures, by se-
lecting articles for revenue, and were now ex-
tending their views to the encouragement of
commerce. He thought there was some impi-o-
priety in combining the clause proposed in this
part of the bill, and even doubted if it was in
order; therefore would vote against it.

The question was put on the motion for a draw-
back on country rum, and lost.

Mr. FiTZsiMONs had another clause upon the
same subject, only on more general principles;
he hoped gentlemen would consider well before
they doomed it to share the fate of the former.
It was to this purpose; that all the duties paid,
or secured to be paid, upon goods imported, shall
be returned or tlischarged upon sucnofthe said

gcMMls, as shall within months be exptirt-

ed toanycountry withoutthe limits of the United
States, except so much as shall be necessarv to
defray the expense that may have accrued by
the entry ana the safe keeping thereof. The
subjects of duties and drawbacks are so connect-
ed by their nature, that he did not see how they
were to be separated. Gentlemen did not ima-
gine that what had been done tended to favor
commerce; it certainly did not. Every impost
which is paid is a disadvantage to the person
concerned in trade, and nothing but necessity
could induce a submisnon to it The interest
of the landholder is undoubtedly blended with
the commercial interest; if the latter receive an
injury, the former will have to sustain his pro-
p:)rtion of it: If drawbacks are not allowed, the
operations of trade will be considerably shack-
led; merchants will be obliged, in the first in-
stance, to send their cargoes to the place of con-
sumption, and lose the advantage ota circuitous
freight, which alone is a profit of no small mag-
nitude.

Mr. Hartley expresseil his sorrow for the
last decision of the committee; he wished the
question had not been put in the absence of the

^'"V''-

<^-' %

1^' ., ^V OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

184

AnuLSI, 1769.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. OF R.

eentlemen from Massachusetts, who were on a
Easiness in some degree of a public nature. The
present motion was only just brought in; he sub-
mitted, therefore, to the committee, if it were
not best to pass it over for the present, in ider
toeive time for consideration.

Mr. Lawrence was for ex|>editin^ business,
but thought, nevertheless, that deciding ques-
tions at this time, when several members were
tbsent, did not tend to that pointy because the
question would be agitated again in the House.

Mr BovDiNOTendeavorecTto evince the pro-
priety of drawbacks bf facts within his know-
ledge. A large quantity of Madeira wine was
imported for the express purpose of exporting
it agiain; now, not to allow a drawback of the
duty, in this and similar cases, would encum-
ber trade exceedingly.

On motion of Mr. Clymer, ' the committee
rose, and the Speaker resumed the chair.

MANNER OF TAKING OATHS.

The bill regulating the manner of taking the
oath prescribed by the constitution, was com-
mitted to the Committee of the whole; after
proceeding some time in considering it, the
committee rose and reported progress:

And the House adjourned.

Tuesday, April 21.

Mr. Hartley asked and obtained leave of
shsence

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House again resolved itself into a Com-
mittee of the whole on the state of the Union,
Mr. Page in the chair.

The motion respecting drawbacks, proposed
yesterday by Mr. FrrzsixoN?, was adopted
withoQt debate.

A motitm being under consideration for lay-
ing a doty of six cents per ton on all vessels
built in the United States, and owned by a ci-
tizen or citizens thereof, and all vessels foreign
boilr, hot now owned by such citizens^

Mr. Madison obnerved, that some small pro-
vision of this kind was necessary for the sup-
port of light-houses, hospitals for disabled sea-
men, and other establishments incident to com-
merce. The motion was agreed to.

The next motion proposed was — ^'^ on all ves-
sels {belonging wholly to subjects of Powers in
alliance with the United States, or partly to the
subjects of those Powers, and partly to the ci-
tizens of the United States, cents per ton.

Mr. Goodhue laid it down as a maxim,
that the tonnage duty ought to bear a certain
ratio to the freight^ for which reason he had
made some calculations to determine what pro-
portion any given sum would bear to the aver-
age of the freights both to Europe and the West
Indies. A vessel of two hundred tons carried
three or four hunilred barrels, the freight of
which to the West Indies might be estimated
at five shillings, to Europe at one dollar. Now
calculate this at the average, and five per cent.

on the freight would be about seventy-two
cents^ whether the duty should be rated at four,
five, or six per cent, on the freight, he submit-
ted to the committee^ but as this motion was
confined to those nations in alliance with us,
he would move but sixty cents.

Mr.BouoiNOT, on the principle last mention-
ed, propc)sed thirty cents.

Mr. (jrooDHUB. — There would be no occasion
to lay additional duties on ships owned by fo-
reigners, if our own vessels were not subjected
to charges in foreign ports over and above what
the natives pay. It is the operation of this un-
equal burthen that renders it necessary for us
to discriminate. It becomes us, therefore, to
ascertain what these extraordinary impositions
are, in order to regulate our conduct. I am
very well satisfied, in my own mind, that thir-
ty cents will be verjr inadec^uate to the object.
Those who are acquainted with the disadvanta-
ges under which our commerce labors, will rea-
dily see that sixty cents are not fully equal to
the extra duties imposed on American vessels
ill foreign ports, and, consequently, not suffi-
cient to establish that prelerence which we
ought to give our own navigation.

Mr. Lawrence. — The subject before us re-
quires the most particular consideration, for se-
veral important reasons. I shall, therefore,
without apology, proceed to state some observa-
tions. In a former debate it was remarked,
that the duty on tonnage must eventually fall
upon the productions of' our country. If this
is a just observation, we ought to consider whe-
ther the prices that those productions bear at
foreign markets are such as to bear this extra
imposition. If we have not shipping enough of
our own, (and that point, I imagine, will l>e con-
ceded me,) we shall be under the necessity of
employing foreign vessels in the transportation
of such articles as we have to dispose of; the
owners, knowing our necessity, will take ad-
vantage of the duty to raise their freight; and
thus the duty will inevitably fall upon our-
selves.

It is well known to this committer that in
the different ports of the United States we have
a variety of articles peculiarly calculated for
exportation, and which we are obliged to ex-
port; such as rice, lumtHsr, tobacco, potash,
fiax seed, and a great many others; besides, it
is also well known, that we have not that quan-
tity of American shipping which is required in
the transportation of these articles; it is neces-
sary, therefore, that we either employ foreign-
ers, or suffer our commodities to perish on our
hands. If this be true, you will have, as I said
before, to consider whether the articles we thus
export are capable of bearine this additional
burthen upon the prices they oring in foreign
markets: [ think they are not Gentlemen
from the southern States mentioned the other
day, that the planters had begun to turn their
attention to other productions than those they
were accustomed to the cultivation of, because
their staple commodities could no longer be ex-

185

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

186

H. OF R.]

DutUa on Imports,

[April SI, 1789.

ported to advantage, if difficul ties of this kind
exist now, without the operation of a tonnage
act, what will they be when so considerable a
burthen is laid upon them? But what advan-
tage will accrue from the reflation, when the
dutv we impose upon foreigners must revert
back, in its operation, upon us? Besides, as the
duty must be paid out of the price of the arti-
cles exported, it will, in effect, be the same as a
tax upon such articles, which is expressly for-
bidden b^ the Constitution. If foreigners en-
hance their freight in proportion to the duty,
and our commvdities are unable to bear the ad-
ditional expense, gentlemen will have reason to
deprecate the consequences^ it must unavoida-
bly check domestic industry, the sole founda-
tion of national welfare and importance. For
what stimulus will the farmer have to raise
more produce than is necessar>[ for his own sup-
port? Will he toil in cultivating the earth, in
gathering in its increaf»e, to have the fruits of his
labor perish in his granaries? Once destroy
this spring of industry, and yuur country tot-
ters to ruin. Will the proposed high duty have
such effect? I fear it may| and therefore shall
be for a much lower sum. Thirty cents will be
a sufficient duty.

Mr. Hartley, thinking sixty cents toohigh^
proposed one-third of a dollar, or thirty-three
and one -third cents.

Mr. GooDuuB was fullv of opinion that the
dut^ ought not to be laid so high as to prevent
foreign shipping from coming amongst us, while
they were useful or necessary to our navigation,
nor vet so hi^h as to injure the sale of our own
procfuctions m foreign markets. But can it be
said, that a duty of less than five per cent, on
the .tonnage of foreign vessels can be attended
with such ill consequences? He apprehended it
could not, and was very well satisfied that six-
tf cents was as little as could be mentioned, to
give encouragement to our own vessels.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS admitted the importance of
the subject as stated by the gentfeman from
New York, (Mr. Lawrence,) and thought it
the duty ot the committee to consider well its
effects before they came to a decision. There
could be no doubt entertained of the policy of
meeting the commercial regulations of foreign
Powers with commercial regulations of our own.
In these regulations, the policy is for each to
obtain for its own vessels an advantage over
those belonging to foreign nations. We cer-
tainly ought not to be less attentive to our in-
terest than others are to theirs; every advan-
tage, therefore, which can be justly given to
our own shipping is due them. Happy effects
may no doubt be derived from the present poli-
cy; but, on this head, I am not altogether so
sanguine as some gentlemen seem to be with
the encouragement proposed. The merchant
may be induced to vest more considerable sums
in property of this kind than heretofore, and at
some future period we may become at least the
carriers of our own commerce. In this case,
too, we have every reason to believe the freight

will be less than it is at the present time in fo-
reign vessels.

A calculation of what may be the proper du-
ty, made from the freight ot a ship, is but an
indefinite way of coming at the object. He
understood the gentleman from Massachusetts
(Mr. Goodhue) to have calculated the freight
of a voyage, at five per cent, on the value of tne
vessel; but surely the gentleman was mistaken.
He believed no ship paid a clear profit of five
per cent, to the owner, at this time; such was the
embarrassed state of American commerce.

The tonnage employed in the transportation
of the productions of America, he estimated at
about 600,000 tons| of this two-thirds are own-
ed by citizens, the other one-third by foreign-
ers. From tliis view of our navigation, he very
much doubted if any restiictions which could
be laid on foreign vessels would produce im-
mediately, or at a very short perioa, the addi-
tional tonnage necessary to supply the whole
American trade. We are limited, said he, in
this particular, by not possessing capital suffi-
cient to do it If a merchant vests his capital
in shipping, he will want it in the operations in
which it IS now employed; yet, nevertheless,
he was firmly of opinion, that good policy re-
quired a discrimination between our own and
foreign vessels, in order to give the former en-
couragement. America must, from her natund
situation, participate considerably in the com-
merce of the world, and ought to have Uie
means of protecting it; but while this is gradu-
ally growing up into strength, it would be im-
politic to deprive ourselves of the convenience
which foreign shipping affords. Then we will
not adopt such a duty as must deter foreigners
from coming amongst us until we are in ^tter
circumstances. If we lay a duty at two-thirds
of a dollar per ton on the vessels of nations in
alliance, we cannot propose to lay less than a
dollar on those with wnom we have not trea-
ties. A ship of two hundred tons will then
have to pay two hundred dollars; a very con-
siderable expense, perhaps much more than our
trade can bear. If we are to discriminate be-
tween nations in treaty and those not in treaty*
I should prefer the lowest sum proposed on the
first, and the highest on the other.

There was an observation made by the gen-
tleman from New York, (Mr. Lawrence,)
which, tliough it does not apply strictly to the
subject under consideration, it may not be amiss
to remark uj>on. It is said, that the duty on ton-
nage must inevitably fall upoa the produce of
the country, and be a reduction of so much of
the planter's profits; this assertion is probably
founded on a presumption that foreigners can
draw their supplies conveniently from other
parts of the world. But these articles are not
conveniently to be had from any other quarter;
consequently, if they are necessary to tlie peo-
ple of those nations which we supply, the duty
will fall upcm them. Lumber anci flour are ne-
cessary to the West Indies; but the truth is,
they cannot be obtained any where else than

187

OP DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

188

AraiL 31, 1^9.]

Duiies on Imporls,

[H. OF R.

from America. As our shipping are restrained
fniiD cairying these articles to tne place of con -
snmption, it may certainly be thought goad po-
licy to draw a revenue from those vessels that
carry them for us. Rice is not raised in any
«ther country sufficient to supply the European
market; it is so with tobacco; of consequence,
the consamer must pay what we demand. But
it woald not be prudent to lay our restraints too
heavy, le$t we deprive ourselves of the use of
f»reij;n shipping; thirty cents is probably enough
to answer eveiy good purpose.

Mr. Tucker. — I am willing to ^ive every
proper encouragement to ship-building in the
United States, but I cannot consent that it
dioald bear heavy on certain States, white part
of their burthen is received by others as a boun-
ty. I mean to move, therefore, for a small duty,
although I am sensible that it will be exclusive-
ly borne by a few of the southern members of
Ute Union. Surne States, it is well known, have
more tonnage than is sufficient to carry all their
small productions tea market: of course, a duty
Of] foreign ships will not affect them. Other
States, which have considerable quantities of
more bulky articles to export, require a greater
number of ships, bavins few or none ot' their
own, must cotisequenthr be subjected to the
whole of the additional doty; for whether the
vessels be foreign or American, the freight will
be the same. Much of the produce ot South
Carolina is carried off by foraigners, and in
Americaa shipping a considerable quantity is
exported. The duty will be paid equal Iv, in
either case, by the shipper, for the freight of
American vessels will be raised to an equal itv
with the other; and of all this money so paid,
there comes into the treasury that part only col-
lected from foreigners; the rest, as I said be-
fore, goes as boanty to benefit the owners of
Auencan ships, i trust it cannot be said by
the advocates for hi^h tonnage, that the States
reost likely to foe aflected bv such a measure
do not t>ear a proportion to the other taxes, be-
cause it is flagrant that they bear more than
their proportion. Where, then, let me ask, is
the justice of extending it?

So far as I can make a calculation in my own
raind. I conclude that the duty on tonnage pro-
posecl by the gentleman from Massachusetts
(Mr. Qoobhub) would amount, on what is em-
ployed at the port of Charleston alone, to forty
or fafhr thousand dollars annually— one -third of
the whole tonnage is foreign, the other two-thirds
Araencan. The first is all that could come into
your treasury; the latter ^oes, need I repeat it,
mto the pockets of individuals,- as an extra re-
ward for serving us. I think a bounty of thirty
thousand dollars to our eastern brethren would
be Ro inconsiderable one from the port of
Charleston alone; but I fear that it is more than
it is able to afford. But besides drawing this to
themselves, you are to consider they are exempt
from contributing any part of the duty on fo-
reifo tonnage,
iwish gentlemen also to consider, that there

remains another addition to be made to the duty
on tonnage-'t mean that of nations with whom
the United States have formed no treaty. If
we lay sixty cents now, and contemplate a still
higher sum on the other, it will certainly be in-
supportable to those States which have no ship-
ping; I think the lowest sum that has been men-
tioned is as much as can be requireti by any
State: I am sure it is more than some are able
to bear. Being convinced in my own jud^ent
of this, I will move twenty cents, and think it
fully sufficient to effect what gentlemen have in
contemplation; it will be a liberal encourage-
ment to an interest which I wish success toj
and though it is at the expense of a few States,
I shall be satisfied with tlie measure, under a
hope that it may eventually promote the gen-
eral welfare*

Mr. Benson wished a previous question^ to
ascertain whether there should be a discrimina-
tion in the manner proposed or not? For his
part, he did not discover, from aiiy thin^ that
had been said, the principle of policy or inter-
est which was to guide us on this occasion. He
supposed it was intended that Dutch and French
ships should be preferred to English. Now, if
this policy was tor the interest of Ameiica, he
was content; but he saw nothing that pointed
out the necessity. Are we bound by ti^eaty or
compact to make this discrimination? If we are.
it is certainly proper to make it. But he did
not know of any treaty which directed our con-
duct in this affair. He knew our treaties men-
tioned that thev should be entitled to the same
advantages as the most favored nations, but this
does not, even by construction, mean that we
should prefer them to every other. If it is for
the advantage of our country to give this pre-
ference, although we are not bound to do it, he
would be content it should be so; but he wished
gentlemen would decide this point before a ques-
tion was taken on filling up the blank.

Mr. Burke thought sixty cents a very extra-
vagant impost upon the tonnage of foreign ship-
ping. Did gentlemen see the extent of the mis-
chief, or were they unacquainted with the
present state of the staple productions of Vir-
ginia, Carolina, and Georgia, which, if carried
to market, are so fallen in price as not to re-
ward the planter's toil; whilst great part of our
tobacco and rice, for want of vessels to carry
them, are now decaying in our warehouses?
Will not restrictions therefore tend to hurt
those productions? If they will, he trusted gen-
tlemen would be moderate in laying them; he
was satisfied that the citizens of the State he
came from considered a. high tonnage duty as
a great evil; he saw it in tne same light also,
and was therefore opposed to it.

Mr. Sherman would trouble the committee
no further than just to remark, that the policy
of laving a high tonnage on foreign vessels,
whether in treaty or not in treaty, was at best
but a doubtful point. The regulation is certain-
ly intended as an encouragement to our own
snipping; but if this is not to be the consequence

189

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

190 *

R^fR.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 31, 1789,

of the measure, it must be an improper one. If
a large duty is laid on foreigners coming into
our ports, thej will be induced to counteract
OS, by increasing the restraints which our ves-
sels already labor under in theirs. But sixty
cents will surely be too high in the present
case, if it is proposed to lay more on foreigners
not in treaty. Not seeing, therefore, any ad-
vantage resulting from high duties on tonnage,
he should vote against the sixty cents.

Mr. Madison. — Some gentlemen have seem-
ed to call in question the policy of discriroinat-
inj^ between nations in commercial alliance
with the United States, and those with whom
no treaties exist. For my own part, I am well
satisfied that there are good and substantial rea-
sons for making it. In the first place, it may
not be unworthy of consideration, that the pub-
lic sentiments of America will be favorable to
such discrimination. I am sure, with respect
to that part from which I come, it will not be a
pleasing ingredient in your laws, if they find
foreigners of every nation put on a footing with
those in alliance with us. There is another
reason, which, perhaps, is more applicable to
some parts of the Union than to others; one of
the few nations with which America has formed
commercial connexions has relaxed considera-
bly in that rigid policy it before pursued — not so
far, to be sure, as America could wish, with re-
spect to opening her ports to oit r trade;but she has
IMsrmitted our ready built ships a sale, and en-
titles them to the same advantage, when owned
by her own citizens, as if they had been built
in France, sub^jecting the sale to a duty of five
per cent» The British market receives none;
the disabiHties of our ships to trade with their
colonies continue, even it they are purchased by
the subtjeets of Great Britain; of consequence^
they cannot be sold without a considerable loss.
Nay^ so cautious are they to prevent the advan-
tages we natural Ijr possess, that they will not
•uflfer a British ship to be repaired in America,
beyond a certain proportion of her value; they
even will not permit our vessels to be repaired
in their ports. «

Another consideration has some weight with
me in deciding the question of discrimination.
The policy of our ally, from the views of the
minister employed^ has frequently been adverse
to the interest of thta country. The person who
has had the charge of our affairs at that Court
has lone been soliciting a relaxation in our favor,
and although it cannot be declared that he has
succeeded, yet there is reason to believe he has
made some impressions, which our conduct
ou^t to avoid eflSicinz; they are such as merit
national attention,, and might justify a discrimi-
nation at this> tiose, although it may be proper
to hold ourselves at liberty to pursue thatpoli-
cy which a change may make necessary. There
are also other considerations which ought to be
taken intc» view. From artificial or adventitious
causes, the commerce between America and
Great Britain exceeds what may be considered
its natural boundary. I find from an examina- 1

tion of the accounts of tonnage for the three
large States of Massachusetts, Virginia, and
South Carolina, that the tonnage of nations in
alliance with us holds no proportion with that of
Great Britain, or of tlie United States. This i»
a proof that a very small direct commerce take»
place between those countries and this; that
there is less of direct intercourse than there
would naturally be if those extraneous and ad-
ventitious causes did not prevent it; such as
the long possession of our trade, their commer-
cial regulations calculated to retain it,, their
similarity of language and manners, their con-
formity of laws and other circumstances— -all
these concurring have made their commerce with
us mure extensive than their natural situation
would require it to be. I would wish, there-
fore, to give such political advantages tu those
nations, as might enable them to gain their pro-
portion of our direct trade from the nation who
has acquired more than is naturally her due.
From this view of the subject, I am led to be-
lieve it would be good policy to make the pro-
posed discrimination between them. Is it not
also of some importance, that we should ena-
ble nations in treaty with us to draw some ad-
vantage from our alliance, and thereby impres*
those rowers that have hitherto neglected to
treat with us^ with the idea that advantages are
to be gained by a reciprocity of friendhhip? It'
we give every thing equally to those who have
or have not formed treaties, surely we do not
furnish to them any motive for courting our con-^
nexion.

It has been objected, that the price of our
produce at foreign markets would not bear tbi»
additional burthen, and that the freight must be
paid by the planters. It will be unnecessary^
after what was said by the gentleman from
Pennsylvania, CMr. Fitzsimons,) to take up
the time ot the committee in ot»erving, that fo-
reigners must receive our tobacco, rice, &c, in
American shipping,, if tliey cannot be otherwise
got. There may be a discrimination made ia
other respects besides in tonnage, so that a very-
high impost on this article need not be insisted
upon. But will any gentleman say, British ves-
seis ought to enjoy in American ports greater
advantages than are enjoyed by Americans in
British ports? Yet, were the duties laid equal
in both cases, the British merchant would have
a very great superiority . In the first place» some
of the most valuable ports which she possesses^
and most conducive to our interest^ are abso-
lutely closed, while every port in the UniteiL
States is open to her without restriction or limi-
tation» Again, even in those which it is per-
mitted America to enter her vessels^ she must
bring nothing but the produce of her own soiL^
whilst the British ship makes circuitous voy*
ages,^ and brings with her the produce of every
quarter of the globe. These are material ad van -
tages; and take the whole of these observations^
together, I think they furnish substantial rea-
sons for making the proposed discrimination.

Mr. Lawrenck.— The question in this case«

191

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

192

April SI, 1789.]

Duties on Imports*

[H. OF R.

1 take it, will be the policj of giving a prefer-
ence to one nation above another. I would
ask the gentleman over the way (Mr. Madison, )
if we have experienced advantages from the
Powers with wnorn we have treaties, sufficient
to entitle them to this preference? If we have,
and are under obligations to them for such
advantages, I shall oe the last man to say.
any thing to prevent a grateful discharge of
those obligations; if we are under no such, we
•re left to act from what we may consider our
best interest; ' for nations, as well as individu-
als, are guided by the principle of interest, if,
then, it will operate against the interest of the
United States, it will be bad policy to give this
preference; if it is congenial to and consistent
with that interest, then it becomes our duty to
give it. The gentleman last up has stated se-
veral considerations why a preference should be
given to the vessels of foreigners in treaty. He
tells you, the public sentiment is in favor of
the measure. I would ask him how is the pub-
lic sentiment, in- this case, to be collected? Is
it to be collected from the conversation of indi-
viduals, or from the acts of public bodies? if
from the conversation of individuals, I am not
flo well informed as he is, because I never heard
it mentioned; if from the acts of public bodies,
we may be on a footing, because they are to t>e
come at with a little inquiry and application.
Now, if my memory serves me right, I believe
no discrimination has. been made but by one
State. I know the State 1 have the honor to
represent on this floor has made none; we con-
sider all foreigners upon an equal footing, and
that it is not our interest to give a preference to
any, and therefore we do not do it. The gen-
tleman says, there has been a relaxation in the
policy of one Power in alliance with us, and in
France we may now sell ships built in America
under certain regulations; but, probably, this
privilege may be no t)enefit to us. I believe we
have not sold more than two vessels in that
country since the alteration has been made, and
these, perhaps, without advantage; if I am mis-
taken, let me be set right, and let the gentle-
man make it appear that we can draw a benefit
from this relaxation sufficient to justify the pre- .
sent measure. He mentioned also an expecta-
tion of some further alterations in our favor. I
admit we may have such expectation, but pro-
bably it may not be realized. Some time ago,
we had some privilege respecting the importa-
tion of oil into France; but an alteration has
taken place on this subject, and our privilege,
together with the benefit, is gone. The gentle-
qiau mentioned, that the commerce of Britain
with this country was too great in proportion to
that of other nations; but this is a point not for
the Government to settle. I maintain, that the
merchants of America are well able to under-
stand and pursue their own interests, and the
advantages which they obtain tend to the wealth
and prosperity of the Union. If they find it
their interest or convenience to form connexions
with the subjects of one nation in preference to

another, why should the Grovernment interfere
to dissolve it? They should be left to them-
selves, like the industrious bee» to gather from
the choicest flower the greatest abundance of
commercial sweets.

I believe there is a propriety in 'discriminat-
ing between our own citizens and foreigners;
but as to the latter, there is no good reason for
establishing a preference amone them. It is not
contended that we are bound by treaty to da
any such thing; if we are not bound by treaty,
then we are left at liber^ to pursue our particu-
lar interest. And here I would ask gentlemen,
if it can be our interest, not having vessels
enough of our own, to discourage the competi-
tion among foreigners for our carrying trade?
If we give a preference, we destroy the compe-
tition. The Dutch, I am informed, navigate
the cheapest of any tiation; they have a trea^
with the United States: of course, thev will car-
ry our produce in the first instance; but as they
will not furnish enough, we must look further,
to France. This nation does not accommodate
us with enough either. We then go to nations
not in treaty, and subject ourselves to this ad-
ditional burthen, and must give them what they
exact. We are told that American vessels have
not the satme advantage in British ports that
British ships have in America. This may be
true; but it must be considered, that our vessels
are on an equal footing with their own in carry-
ing the produce of our country, while articles of
the same nature, imported from other parts of
the world, pay an additional duty. It may be
well on this occasion to observe, that the nation
against which this regulation is directed, may
be disposed to meet you with a similar regula-
tion, and destroy that part of our carrying trade
which remains to us. At present we can export
potash, lumber, iron, and other articles to Enc-
land, and we pay no higher duty 4han British
vessels, but a small alien duty to which all na-
tions are sutuected. Upon the whole* it is good
policy, I believe, to let commerce take its own
course,and not to attempt discrimination, which
may eventually prove more iqjurious to us than
we at present conceive. We ought to contem-
plate our own interest as a nation, and pursue
what appears to be the best calculated to pro-
mote that end, as we are under no oblijgations
to the contrary, from either the principles .or
practice of those Powers with whom subsist
commercial treaties.

Mr. Madison. — I am a friend to free com-
merce, and, at the same time, a friend to such
regulations as are calculated to promote our
own interest^ and this on national principles.
The great principle of interest is a leading one
with me, and vet my combination of ideas on
this head leads me to a very different conclu-
sion from that made by the gentleman from New
York, (Mr. Lawr£nob. ) i wish we were under
less necessity than I find we are to shackle our
commerce with duties, restrictions, and prefer-
ences; but there are cases in which it is impossi-
ble to avoid following the example of other na-

193

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

194

H. OF R.]

Duties an Imports.

[April 21, 1789.

tions in the great diversity of our trade. Some
reasons for this were mentioned on a former oc-
casion; they have been frequently illustrated in
the progress of this business, and the decision
of tne committee have proved them to be ne-
cessary.

I beg leave to remark, in answer to a train of
ideas which the gentleman last up has brought
into view, that although interest will, in g[en-
eral, operate effectually to produce political
good, yet there are causes in which certain fac-
titious circumstances may divert it from its na-
tural channel, or throw or retain it in an artifi-
cial one. Have we not been exercised on this
topic for a long time past? Or why has it been
necessary to give encouragement to particular
species of industry, but to turn the stream in
favor of an interest that would not otherwise
succeed? But laying aside the illustration of
these causes, so well known to all nations, where
cities, companies, or opulent individuals engross
the business from others, by havins had an un-
interrupted possession of it, or by tne extent of
their capitals being able to destroy a competi-
tion, let us proceed to examine what ought to
be our conduct on this principle, upon the pre-
sent occasion. Suppose two commerciul cities,
one possessed of enormous capitals and lone
habits of business, whilst the other is possessed
of superior natural advantages, but without that
course of business and chain of connexions
which the other has; is it possible, in the nature
of things, that the latter city should carry on a
successful competition with th» formerly Thus
it is with nations; and when we consider the
vast quantities of our produce sent to the dif-
ferent parts of Europe, and the great importa-
tions from the same places; that almost all of
this commerce is transacted through the me-
dium of British ships and British merchants, 1
cannot help conceiving that, from the force of
habit and other conspiring causes, that nation
is in possession of a much greater proportion of
our trade than she is naturally entitled to.
Trade, then, being restrained to an artificial
channel, is not so advantageous to America as
a direct intercourse would oe; it becomes there-
fore the duty of those to whose care the public
interest and welfare are committed, to turn tlie
tide to a more favorable direction.

In the trade of South Carolina is employed
annually about 56,977 tons of shipping. The
proportion of French and Dutch is about 2,100
tons, while thatof Great Britain is about 19,000.
In Massachusetts the quantity is about 85,551
tons; it is stated, that there are belonging to the
StatCj 76,857, the remainder is foreign, anci most-
ly British. In Virginia we have 56,272 tons;
26,903 British, and only 2,664 of the French and
Dutch. I cannot, from this view of the subject,
be persuaded to believe that every part ot our
trade flows in those channels which would be
most natural and profitable to us, or those which
reason would dictate to us, if we were unin-
cumbered of old habits and other accidental
circumstances that hurry us along.

It has been asked by the gentleman fronft
New York; (Mr. Lawrkncs,) what evidence
we had that the public sentimeota of America
were in favor of discrimination? Perhaps it
would be improper on this occasion to acfduce
anjr other proof of the fact than from the trans-
actions of public bodies; and here, 1 think, i»
abundant proof to be found. The State of Vir-
ginia, if I am not mistaken, lays a double dutv
on tonnage; Fretich and Dutch vessels pay half
a dollar per ton, while the vessels of Great Bri-
tain are subjected to one dollar. There are
other distinctions in our revenue laws manifest-
ing the same principle; some of them establish a
R reference to French wines and brandy. In
laryland, a similar policy has prevailed. I be-
lieve the diffiirence there is about one-third in
favor of our allies, (if I err the gentleiBen from
that State can set roe right;) in Pennsylvania^
there is a discrimination of about a fourth. I do
not certainly recollect, but I believe the like
policy exists in other States; but J have not had
an opportunity of searching their laws on thi»
point, but what I have enumerated are facts
affording substantial proof that the public sen-
timent does favor the discrimination.

Mr. Baldwin observed, that the question
immediately before the committee was of less
importance than the one which had been argued
by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Madison)
and the gentleman from New York (Mr. Law-
RENCR.) He was glad to have this question
discussed, and thought the gentleman had very
properly called in the public sentiment as an ar-
gument in favor of his motion for discrimination;;
out the gentleman over the way wants evidence
of what the public sentiment is. I think, said
he, we have a strong proof of what the public
sentiment is in the very existence of the House.
This sentiment he believed to be the cause of
the revolution under which we are about to act*
The commercial restrictions Great Britain plac-
ed upon our commerce in pursuing her selfish
policy, gave rise to an unavailing clamor, and
excited the feeble attempt which several of the
State Legislatures made to counteract the de-
testable regulations of a commercial enemy; but
these proving altogether ineffectual to ward oflT
the effects ot the blow, or revenge their cause^
the convention at Annapolis was formed for the
express purpose of counteracting them on gene-
ral principles. This convention found the com-
pletion of the business impossible to be effected
in their hands; it terminated, as is well known,
in calling the convention who framed the pre-
sent constitution, which has perfected a happy
revolution in politics and commerce.

The general expectation of the country is,
that there shall be a discrimination; that those
nations who have not yet explained the terms
on which an intercourse shall be carried on, or
who have by establishing regulations bearinghaixl
upon such intercourse, may know our ability and
disposition to withhold, or bestow advantages,
according as we find a principle of reciprocity
prevail. Thinking a discrimination necessary.

195

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

196

April 31, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. ofR.

and knowine that the voice of the people calls
for it, we shall not answer the end for which we
came here, by neglecting or refusing to make it.

Mr. FrrzsiMONS was well aware from the
beginning that the debate would turn in the
manner it had done. The question which was
now brought forward was well wortliy of con-
sideration and discussion, but he would add no
more to the latter than barely to state to the
committee such facts as would tend to point out
the difference of the policy of the two principal
nations in their regulations as they affected the
commerce of America, leaving it to the judg-
ment of the committee to draw such conclusions
from them as are proper. He believed it true,
as stated by the gentleman from Virginia, that
of all the foreign shippine employed in our trade,
three-fourths at least oelong to the British;
nor did he think it difficult to account for this be-
ing the case. The citizens of America, previous
to the revolution, were possessed of shipping
nearly enoueh to carry on their whole com-
merce; but cfu ring the war, they were not oniv
deprived of the snipping they before possessed,
but the means of acquinng others also. When
the era of peace commenced, they availed them-
selves of the opportunity of establishing among
UB merchants, agents, and factors of tliat nation.
It is by these men, and the capitals of Britain,
that we are furnished with vessels for the trans-
portation of our productions; it is by this mean
that almost the whole of our trade is carried on
in some States. These observations, added to
what had been offered before, would show clear-
ly the circumstances by which that nation had
got such a large proportion of our trade.

Let us proceed now to ascertain what is the
difference between the regulations of France
and England relative to the commerce of this
country. Into the ports of Great Britain an
American vessel can bring the produce of the
United States, but nothing else. He believed
our ships paid no more duties on such articles
than if imported in British bottoms, except
what was for the support of lights; but this in
some cases falls pretty heavy, out it is no more
than all other nations have to pay. In the ports
of France,an American vessel is admitted near-
ly on an equal footing with the vessels of their
own subjects. There was a distinction made
by the gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Madison)
which he conceived had not been fully attend-
ed to. The ships of this country sold in France
are entitled to all the privileges of French built
ships, in her colonial trade as Well as anv other.
Our ships may be sold in England also, but
they cannot be employed in her colonial trade,
consequently the price must be lessened bv the
restriction of their use. In the West India
islands the American vessels are not permitted
to enter, but ships belonging to the subjects of
Great Britain may carry anv of our produce to
those places; there is no prohibition m this re-
spect. In the French West India islands, Ame-
rican shipping are admitted indiscriminately
with their own, but then the articles which are

allowed to be carried there are few and of little
value; they are lumber, live stock, and fish;
the latter subject to a heavy duty. To some
States it is highly beneficial that their produc-
tions should be carried off to the West Indies,
although in British bottoms; but then it ought
to be remembered, that the articles calculated
for the consumption of the islands are of such a
nature that they cannot be obtained elsewhere;
so that it may be fairly inferred, the admission
of them is not intended as a favor to Ameiica.

The gentleman from Connecticut (Mr. Sher-
man) apprehended, if we laid restrictions on the
foreign trade, we might be met with equal re-
strictions on the part of foreigners; but there is
no danger of that. Every thing which Great
Britain takes from us, is taken because she can-
not get it any where else; or if it is to be had at
any other market, it is not at a price so cheap
as ours. Rice for that market cannot be got in
sufficient quantities: tobacco the same. Lum-
ber for her islands she has attempted unsuccess-
fully to procure from another quarter. Being
thus circumstanced, we do not run any risk of
losing that commerce by any regulation we may
enter into. But, for our own sakes, we ought
not to carry them so far as (o deprive ourselves
of the convenience they afford, whilst we are
unsupplied with shipping of our own. But cer-
tainly we can draw a revenue from their con-
sumption by a tonnage duty, as it must unavoida-
bly be paid by the consumer and not the planter.

The question of policy has been well explain-
ed, and therefore nothing more need be added;
but submitting the decision to the sense of the
committee, he would rest the facts and conclu-
sions here.

Mr. GooDBUE withdrew his motion for sixty
cents. Mr. Hart<.ey's motion for thirty-three
and one-third cents was put and lost, but the
question on thirty cents was put and carried.

The next question, ^ on all vessels belonging
wholly or in part to the subjects of other Pow-
ers, at the rate of cents per ton.'^

Mr. Lawrence moved to fill up the blank
with the same sum as they had just agreed to.

Mr. Madison supposed the gentleman, by
this motion, intended to equalize the restric-
tions about to be laid on foreign nations, as he
was opposed to a discrimination; if so, he act^
consistently with his principles: But, said he, I
am actuated by a <lifferent sense of interest; and
therefore shall be in favor of a larger sum than
that proposed. The more the subject has been
examined, the greater necessity there appears
for discnmination. If it is expedient for Ame-
rica to have vessels employed in commerce at
all, it will be proper that she have enough to an-
swer ail the purposes intended; tofoim a school
for seamen, to lay the foundation of a navy, and
to be able to support itself against the interfer-
ence of foreigners. I do not think there is much
weight in what has been observed relative
to the duty we are about to lay in favor of
American vessels, beine a burthen on the com-
munity, and particularly oppressive to some

197

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

108

H. orR.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 91, 1789.

parts; but if there were, it may be a burthen of
that kind which will ultimately save us from
one that is greater.

I consider that an ac<iuisition of maritime
strength is essential to this country; if ever we
are so unfortunate as to be engaged in war,
what but this can defend our towns and cities
upon the sea-coast? Or what but this can ena-
ble us to repel an invading enemy? Those
I>art8 which are said to bear an undue propor-
tion of the burthen of the additional duty on
foreign shipping, are those which will be the
most ezposea to the operations of a depredatory
war, and require the greatest exertions of the
Union in their defence; if, therefore, some lit-
tle sacrifice is made by them to obtain this im-
portant object, they will be peculiarly reward-
ed for it in the hour of danger. Granting a
C reference to our own navigation will insensi-
lybring it forward to that perfection so essen-
tial to American safety; and though it may
produce some little inequality at first, it will
soon ascertain its level, and become uniform
throughout the Union, a higher duty will be-
come necessary on these principles, as well as
on those of discrimination. The preference we
give to foreign nations in alliance over those
not jn treaty, will tend to increase the trade of
our allies; but it will also enable our own ship-
ping to carry on lower terms than that nation
who is in possession of such an unnatural pro-
portion of commerce.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS moved to fill the blank
with sixty cents, and was seconded by Mr.
Goodhue.

Mr. Tucker expressed himself in favor of
some discrimination; he thought it oueht to be
made on the principles mentioned by the

{gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madison;) but
le feared he should not be able to vote with
gentlemen on the present question, because he
conceived the rate proposed was too high. If
the committee would agree to fix the duty on
this article at thirty cents, and re-consider their
iast vote, and reduce that to twenty, he should
concur with them; but, as he thought thirty
cents enough for the highest, he was inclined
to vote for that sum, oiily he feared it would
seem to infer that he was not in favor of dis-
crimination if he did so; but to avoid if possi-
ble the difficulty to which he was exposed, he
would move thirty-five cents, with an inten-
tion hereafter to reduce the first article to
twenty.

Mr. Madison begged leave to express an idea
which he thought would reconcile gentlemen to
a more considerable dutv than seemed to be
contemplated. It was aclmitted, on all hands,
that America did not furnish shipping sufficient
for the transportation of her own pi*oduce, and
the apparent quantity would decrease from what
it was now represented to be, if gentlemen con-
sidered that the American vessels, mentioned
in the custom-house reports, may clear three,
four, five, or six times a year, and consequently
multiply the grogs amount without its being

substantially true. Another circumstance that
decreases this apparent quantity is, that fo-
reigners have, in some instances, in order to
obtain the privileges of our ships, masked their
property under the American name. This re-
duction of our shipping serves only to show the
indispensable necessity of applying means to
raise it up to what it ought to be. But, in
doing this, we ought to be careful in avoiding
any sudden or violent effect upon our com-
merce by the rise of freight. Let, then, the
operation of the present discrimination conti-
nue for such a length of time as it is likely will
procure us a sufficient quantity of tonnage of
our own, and then let the duty be increased to
a greater degree. This may be done by a
small addition to the clause, saying that the
duty shall be a certain sum, but that, after
another day, it shall be increased to a larger
sum. Thus will both the objects of gentlemen
be effected. Ship-building will be encou raced,
and the freight will not be raised. He made a
motion similar to what he had expressed.

Mr. Tucker felt himself sorry to be obliged
to make local observations on the question be-
fore the committee, but the duty he owed his
constituents, as well as his duty to the whole
community, called upon him to repeat what he
had said on former occasions .respecting the
burthen which a heavy tonnage duty would l>e
upon the State of South Carolina. He hoped
gentlemen would forbear adding to their op-
pression; if a high duty must be laid, let it be
determinate, that the people may know what
they are to bear; do not introduce an idea that
their burthens are in future to be increased.
He hoped gentlemen who wished for national
encouragement to their ship-building would be
moderate, as they plainly saw that it must be
done at the expense of their neighbors.

Mr. FiTzsiMoNs remarked, that the sum now
proposed was not so high as to prevent foreign-
ers from continuing our trade. Asa proof of
this he instanced Virginia. The tonnage du^
was one dollar in that State, and yet he oeliev-
ed they found no difficulty in getting British
ships to carry their produce; besides, hndid not
think sixty cents exceeded much, if any thing,
the average of th^ tonnage duties laid by the
State Governments. Even in the State which
the gentleman complains is so likely to suffer,
they have a tonnage duty, perhaps not quite so
high as the one proposed. If a high tonnage
dutjT will raise the freight, even then the con-
clusion which that gentleman drew does not
follow; for the price of freight will equalize it-
self. A vessel will readily remove to where
the best freight is to be got, and by their num-
bers soon reduce the price, or raise it elsewhere
to an equality. They would readily go from
Massachusetts to Carolina, and all the expense
would be the sending of a vessel from one port
to another; besides, foreign tonnage is more or
less employed by every part of the Union.

The question on the motion pmposed by Mr.
Madison, respecting the increase of the duty at

199

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

200

Afrix. S4, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. OF R.

a certun time, was pot, and the House divided
eqnaily^ it lying with the chairman to decide,
he did It in ttie ne^tive^ remarking that he did
not see any necessity for using the words, be-
cause the subject was always in the power of
the I^ef^slature.

Mr. BoujoiNOT moved fifty cents; which mo-
tion, after sixty cents liad been negatived, was
adopted hj the committee.

On motion of Mr. FnzsiMONs, seconded by
Mr. GooDHi7£, it was provided that no vessel
built within the Unitea States, and belonging
to a citizen or citizens thereof^ whilst employ-
ed in the coasting trade, or m the fisheries,
■hall pair tonnage more than once in anyone
year. Nor shaTl any ship or vessel, built with-
m the United States, pay tonnage on her first
Tojragje.

rhe committee rose, and reported the fore-
going resolutions as agreed to. The report was
ordered to lie on the table, and the House ad-
ioumed.

Wednesday, April 23.

PfTEB Sylvester, from New York, appear-
ed and took his seat.

The House resolved itself into a Committee
of the whole on the bill to regulate the taking
the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth
article of the constitution, Mr. Page in the
chair. After going through the bill, and mak-
ing some amendments therein, the committee
rose and reported the bill with the amendments;
which report was ordered to lie on the table.

Thursday, April 33.

John Hathorn, from New York, appeared
and took his seat.

Mr. Rit^ARD Bland Lee reported, from the
committee appointed to confer with a commit-
tee of the Senate, in reporting a proper mode of
communicating papers, bills, and messages, be-
tween the two Houses, that the committee had*
according to order, met and conferred with a
committee of the Senate thereupon, and had
agreed to a report; which he delivered in at the
ClerkH table, where the same was read, and
ordered to lie on the table.

Ordered^ That the report from the Commit-
tee of the whole House on the bill to regulate
the taking the oath or affirmation prescril^d by
the sixth article of the constitution, be put off
until to-morrow.

Friday, April 24.

Mr. BouDiNOT reported, from the committee
appointed to attend with a committee from the
Senate, to receive the President of the United
States, at the place of his embarcation from
New Jersey, that the committee did^ according
Id order, together with a committee from the
Senate* attend at £lizabethtown, in New Jer-
s^, on the 33d instant, at which place the two
committees met the President, and thence em-

barked for this city, where they arrived about
three o'clock in the afternoon of the same day,
and conducted him to the house appointed for
his residence.

The House proceeded to consider the report
from the comniittee appointed to confer with a
committee of the Senate in reporting a proper
mode of communicating papers, bills, ana mes-
sages between the two Houses^ which lay on
the table, and the said report being twice read,
was, on a motion made, ordered to be recom-
mitted to the same committee.

On motion,

Eegohedj That so much of the standing rules and
orders of this House as prescribes the enacted style
of bills, be rescinded.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter
from the Vice President of the United States,
enclosing a resolution of the Senate, appoint-
ing a committee to consider and report what
style or titles it will be proper to annex to the
office of President and Vice President of the
United States, if any other than those eiven in
the constitution; also to consider of the time,
place, and manner in which, and the person by
whom, the oath prescribed by the constitution,
shall be administered to the President, and to
confer thereon with such committee as this
House should appoint for that purpose; where-
upon.

Ordered^ That a committee, to consist of five
members, be appointed for the purpose express-
ed in the resolution of the Senate.

The members elected were Messrs. Benson,
Ames, Madison, Carroll, and Sherman.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House then proceeded to consider the
resolutions reported by the Committee of the
whole on the state of the Union.

Mr. BouDiNOT complained that the articles
were generally taxed too high, not too high for
the article to bear, but too high for the due col-
lection of the revenue. Every thing we tax
should be considered as it relates to the interest
of the importer, as well as other circumstances^
now, if it is discovered that the duties are so
great as to make it a beneficial trade to the
merchant to run his goods, he will do so, and
injure the revenue.

When this subject was before the Committee
of the whole, he expressed a desire for gentle-
men to eet information from such sources as
were likely to be the purest; in conformity with
this desire, he had endeavored to avail himself of
the few leisure moments which his avocations
allowed him, in order to ascertain what would
be the amount of the duties, the risk of smug-
gling, and what degree of temptation merchants
will be under to engage in this practice. The
duty on spirits is so high as to afford a very
strong temptation; and when we consider the
extensiveness of our sea-coasts, we shall find
it impossible to place our guards so thick as to
prevent the importer from failing into the prac-

201

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

!202

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 34, 1789.

lice. We ought not, therefore, to make the
inducement so strong as to endanger the loss
of the revenue. But suppose, on experience,
we discover the fatal tendency of the measure,
can we lower it with convenience? Certainly
we cannot, as it regards the fair trader.

The article of Madeira wine will bear a heavy
duty, as well as spirits; but, in laying a duty
on it, we ought to consider its situation. We
pay for it in the produce of our country is one
consideration $ but when it arrives, it is not im-
mediately productive; it is necessary to keep it
some years before it is fit for sale. Now, on a car-
go of two hundred pipes of Madeira, the duties
will amount to three thousand or two thousand
six hundred pounds; this is a very large sum
for a merchant to pav from his capital { no doubt
the Government will give some credit, but we
cannot give a credit equal to the merchant's ne-
cessity. The temptation will be increased
from the want of means to discharge the duty;
and the advantage of clearing three thousand
pounds on a cargo will make it the most ad-
vantageous trade a person can engage in. Will
not so large a reward as this awaken all his
powers to defraud you, and to evade the checks
which you are obliged to establish? But if
many officers are necessary to watch the faith-
ful collection of the impost, they will defeat
the object of revenue as much as a loss by
smuggling; they will consume the whole in
compensating tlieir services; besides, such esta-
blishments are odious to the people, and will
render the Government itself unpopular.

The duty on 2,600,000 gallons of West In-
dia rum, which is less than the quantity ac-
tually consumed in America, calculated at one
shilling only, will amount to 125,000 pounds:
the duty on 5,000 pipes of Madeira wine will
be at least j£67,500, besides the twelve cents on
all other wines. What an extravagant sum —
above half a million of dollars for these two ar-
ticles alone! Can this be in proportion to our
wants? Surely it exceeds them. But it is to
be feared, after all, that these high duties will
diminish the revenue rather than increase it.
Such is the natural consequence resulting from
an extension of the subject beyond what it is
capable of bearing. He knew a fact in point:
when molasses was subjected to a duty of six
pence a gallon in this State, a person who was
considerably in the trade uid not pay at the
rate of a farthing per gallon for seven or eight
years; but when the duty was reduced to a
penny, he paid ^81,200 annually. This anec-
dote will serve to show the committee the pro-
prietjr of not exceeding the bound of modera-
tion, if revenue is their object. In order to
begin to make the reduction, he moved to low-
er distilled spirits of Jamaica proof from fifteen
to twelve cents per gallon.

Mr. Madison was sensible that high duties
had a tendency to promote smuggling, and in
case those kinds of fraud ^ere successfully

Eractised the revenue must be diminished; yet
e believed the sum proposed on spirits was not

so high as to produce those effects to any con-
siderable degree. If any article is capable of
paying a heavy duty, it is this; if the duty on
any article is ca()able of being collected with
certainty, it is this; if a duty on any article is
consonant with the sentiment of the people of
America, it is this; why then shoulcl not ;the
article be made as tributary as possible to the
wants of Government? But, besides these fa-
vorable circumstances, r think the combination
of the merchants will come in aid of the law;
the people will also lend their aid. These cir-
cumstances would do much toward insuring
the due collection of the revenue.

Mr. Jackson seconded Mr. Boudinot's mo-
tion for reducing the' duties, because he was
well convinced they were too high even to be
well collected, unless we establish custom-
houses every ten or twelve miles, ^Itke watch-
towers, along the sea-coasts. When trade is
so unproductive, the Legislature ought to be
careful how they make it more worth a man's
while to live by committing frauds upon the
revenue than by practising honest commerce.

I'here is another consideration which particu-
larly regarded the Georgia trade. That coun-
try, abounding with lumber of the most luxu-
rious growth, could only exchange it for rum;
and a very considerable commerce grew out of
this intercourse favorable to Georgia. This
would be affected by the imposition of heavv
duties; but commercial consioerations, we shall
be told, form only a secondary otyect in this
business. There is another proposition in
which he acquiesced: it would be more conve-
nient, and more to the honor of the House, to
make their first essay with low duties: because,
if they persist^ in lading them high, tney would
be compelled to an inglorious retreat, and the
Government would be insulted. In the State
he represented, it was next to impossible to col-
lect the revenue, the country was so intersect-
ed with navigable creeks and rivers, if the peo-
ple were disposed to evade the payment of it;
and there was no more certain way to produce
this disposition than by making it their interest
to defraud you.

Mr. Wads WORTH conceived the duty much
too high, and joined the gentlemen of the oppo-
sition in believing it never can be collected;
the quantity of rum imported was full 4,000,000
gallons annually; can it be thought that the
whole of this dut^ will be paid, or even a con-
siderable part of it? He thought it would not.
The British, when in possession of this coun-
try, only imposed a duty of three pence sterling
on molasses; but, with all their custom-house
ofiicers, their navy, their cutters, and eneneetic
executive, they were unable to obtain it. When
it was reduced to one penny, they got some-
thing. How, then, can the Federal Grovem*
ment expect, without these aids to collect a
higher duty, when even the specie in the coun-
try is insumcient to pay the whole amount of it?
It we attempt a thing that is impracticable, we
shall expose our weakness, without effecting any

205

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

204

Anux.34, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. OF IL

one good perpose whatsoever; by moderating
the daties we shall obtaia revenue, and give
that encouragement to manafactures which is
intended; but by persisting in keeping them so
highv we bhall obtain nothing, and the law will
be destnicUve of itself.

3dr. FrrzsiMONs, — If it is the opinion of the
House that the duties agreed to in the commit-
tee c&DQot be collected with any tolerable cer-
tainty, they will agree to a reduction. One
gentiemaa tells you it is impossible to prevent
«maggli^ another that there is not money
enoogh ia the country to pay the duties, and
another that their amount exceeds the wants of
the United Statea. Have gentlemen made a
calctthitien of the amount of those duties? If
they have, do they find it exceeds even the pro-
bable wants of the United States? If it aoes
this, it will be improper to make a demand of
so mach; Iwt I believe, if the calculation was
made, and the whole of the duties carried into
the tiG^ we shall still fall something short of
what is absolutely necessary to discharge our
natiooal obligations and support the Govern-
meot; but if there is not money enough in the
Union to pay these things, the Government
must go without it; we can have no alternative.
But miether any or all of those observations
are true, b but matter of opinion; we have not
the means of ascertaining tnera with precision;
for iny own part, I entertain sentiments very
different from those delivered by the gentlemen
in opposition. One of them stated a fact rela-
tive to t^e collection of the duty on molasses
when at six pence and one penny per gallon;
no doubt it is trae, but the inference does not
liold good in the case before us; the gentleman
only proposes a reduction from fifteen to twelve
cents, whether we can prevent smuggling or
not, will be best ascertained when the bill for
collecting the duties shall be brought forward.
Such a bill is now in the hands of the commit-
tee, and I trust that it will be adequate to the
object; if it guards sufficiently against smug-
g|ing» or delraudiag the revenue of twelve
cents, it will require but very little more cir-
cumspection to secure fifteen. Hie gentleman
from Mew Jersey states the embarrassments to
which the importer will be subjected by having
to nuke such large payments for duties out of
his capital; he supports this by supposing a
merchant ciiliged to pay three thousand pounds
€o two hundred pipes of Madeira; but there
w veiy few such cargoes imported into the
United States. But suppose there were, can-
not the bill I alluded to before regulate the
time and manner of payments, so as to give an
opportnnity to the owner to sell enough of the
article to discharge the duty before it is de-
manded? This is the practice in England,
where the duties frequently exceed double the
value of the article, and by a mean of this kind
he can avoid employing his capital in the pay-
ment of the dutjr. Gentlemen have remarked
on the impossibility there is of preventing an
illicit tracfe being earned on. t know it will

be more difficult to provide against this in some
States than in others; but gentlemen will re-
collect, that generally those places where goods
can be landed with privacy are places of but
little consumption; it will, therefore, be neces-
sary to remove them to others, and i trust this
removal can be so yarded against as to frus-
trate the attempt. To defraud the revenue in
this view, a person who has got his goods on
shore in Georgia will be little nigher hts object
than if they were in the West Indies. The duty
on a hogshead of rum will be about sixteen or
eighteen dollars; the fraudulent trader will cal-
culate the cost to remove a hogshead landed at
these unfrequented places to the place of con-
sumption, with the common charge for risk,
and extra one for illicit trade, and will find per-
haps that the profit to himself is small and pre-
carious. Now, whether we fix the duty at
twelve or fifteen cents, it will be equally easy,
or nearly so, to secure our ol^^ct — revenue-

The gentleman from Jersey has recommend-
ed to the committee to gain information« I
have endeavored to inform myself of the pub-
lic opinion, and of the opinion of merchants,
and can say, as the result of my inquiries, that
if it was possible to obtain a revenue of double
the amount from ardent spirits, it would give
general satisfaction in Pennsylvania. I believe
in some States the proposed duties would be
paid under almost any system of collection
with great certainty; where it cannot be so ob-
tained| the law must aid the officer sufficiently
to attain the object

The gentleman from Georgia says it will in-
jure the trade of his State, because they ex|>ort
their lumber and take rum in payments I think
they have very little advantage by such an ex-
change. It is said, that we shall, on experience of
the predicted disadvantages, be compelled to
lower the duties. I believe it would be iivjurions
to the Government to have revenue laws that
could not be executed; tmt that, I trust, is not
likely to be the case with the present; because
the mode of collection can, I think, without
great expense, be so regulated as to secure a
faithful performance of what it directs. If the
duties should lessen the consumption and im-
portation of distilled spirit, a great good is ef-
fected^ it will tend to improve the morals of
the people; if it does not produce that conse-
quence it will afford the more revenue. It is
a proper object of a sumptuary regulation, not
only as it is a luxury, but inasmuch as it is a
luxury of the most mischievous kind. As I
think the collection of twelve or fifteen cents
equally secure, and as the best source of obtain-
ing revenue is by impost, I shall be for the
highest sum; knowing tnat, if there is not money
enough in the country to pay the necessary sum
for the support of Government, a recourse to
excise or direct taxes cannot produce more.

Mr. BouDiNoT was not ashamed to confess
that he wanted the advantages of commercial
knowledge on a question where the principles
of trade were interwoven; but he opposed nigh

205

GALES Sl SEATON'S HISTORY

206

H. OF R.]

DtUiefi on Imports,

[April 24» 1789.

duties on a conviction in his own mind that
they could not be collected. He repeated some
few of his former arguments to show why he
held this opinion: but it was not the particular
article of rum tnat he was opposed to, it was
the hieh scale on which the duties were laid
generally, and that only from an idea that
creater revenue might be obtained from less
duties.

Mr. Lawrekce. — ^The gentleman from Penn-
sylvania (Mr. FiTzsiMONs] has observed, that
a high duty on rum will tend to improve the
morality ot our citizens, at the same time he
expects to raise a considerable revenue from
the importation j if tlie consumption is lessened,
the object of revenue is defeated, and the defi-
ciency rendered uncertain. The true object
I take to be this, that we fay our duties in such
a manner as to produce the greatest quantity of
revenue from each article which it is capable
of yielding, considering its nature and circum-
stances, nere, then, it is worthy of considera-
tion, whether we have laid the impost on rum
so as to obtain the payment of the duty on the
whole quantity imported, or whether it will not
occasion so much to be smuggled as will lessen
the amount of the revenue below what a lighter
duty would bring into the treasury. If the
fact is, that smuggling is increased by hidi du-
ties, the revenue runs great risk of loss. J^Iow,
several gentlemen contemplate that this will be
the case here, and they imagine this because
the duty is much higher than the mean rate of
all the duties laid throughout the Union. It is
higher than has been laid by any particular
State; besides it does not correspond in a ratio
with the other articles. As the quantity already
imported has paid but a small duty, it may be
aftbrded at a moderate price, but what here-
after is imported, if it pays a much higher duty,
cannot come in competition with the former^
so that the importer must either keep the latter
upon hand, or introduce it without the payment
of any duty at all. The fact which was men-
tioned bv the gentleman from Jersey (Mr. Bou-
dinot) has made a deep impression on iny
mind; from which I plainly foresee that, if the
the duty is laid too high, it will be an irresisti-
ble inducement to smuggling, and smuggling
will take place; if smuggling does take place,
it will probably tend more to corrupt the mo-
rals of the people than can be amended by re-
stricting the use of rum. After they once have
a habit of smuggling, it is but chance whether
lowering the duties would root out the evil; for
when once the business is established, and con-
nexions formed, it will be easj to carry it on
for a less profit than it was before it had been
got into train. It is said, that the sense of the
people, and the combination of the merchants,
will assist the Government in the collection ot
the duty, and prevent smuggling. I have a
high opinion of the merchants of America, and
believe them to be a virtuous body of men; but
I fear, like every other body of men, they may
be induced to evade your laws if their interest

is concerned in the event; and their interest
will be concerned, if the profit from smuggling
is likely to be cotisiderable, after defraying the
c'harge of risk. But there can be no absoiule
reliance on circumstances of this natnref our
reliance ought to be on the law; and if the law
does not take effectual means to secure the coU
lection, we are not to expect our citizens will
do it. I think, then, before we get through the
impost bill, we ought to see what security the
one for collection will afford j| if it is not sofii-
ciei>t to obtain the object in view, no doubt can
remain but that the duties ought to be lowered.
It is at present the sense of well-informed men,
both in Congress and out of doors, that the du-
ties are too high to be collected, and being of
that opinion I shall vote for the reduction. On
this principle I hope the amend meat wUl take
place.

Mr. Tucker wished the duties to be lower-
ed, and proposed to the committee to strike oflT
seven cents from the fifteen; by varying hi»
motion in this manner, he expected the sense
of the House could be taken on his proposition
first, notwithstanding the rule that ^ the ques-
tion shall be put on the highest sum first." He
joined in the opinion that high duties were pro-
ductive of smuggling; that notwithstanding the
powers and vigilance of custom-house (^cer»^
and the whole Executive, contraband trade i»
carried on in every nation where the duties are
so high; the facility with which it could be ttone
in America ought to show a prudent Legislature
the degree of probability; unless this can be
guarded against, what will the law avail? ft
can avail nothing. Besides, the higliev the duty-
is laid, the more you expose the officer to the
temptation of being corrupted; wlien that i»
done, the revenue will be very imi productive.

Mr. Bland would second the gentleman last
up, but thought it was not in order to have the
question taken first on the k>west sum.

Mr. Madison.— The question is not whether
the whole scale of duties agreed to in the com-
mittee shall be reduced, bat whether the parti-
cular duty on the article of spirit. I will not
differ with the gentleman altogether, and sar
that none of the subsequent articles are too high
to be collected with certainty, but 1 am tiot
convinced by any thing yet said that fifteen
cents per gallon is too much to be laid upon
snirit of Jamaica proof. The gentleman fron^
New York says, the example of the States ha»
proved that high duties are not expedient, and
that this article does not correspond with the
rate they have fixed to it The State Govern-
ments, no doubt, collected what duty thejr
thought best, but it does not follow that the Gen-
eral Government cannot collect more than the
State Governments have done. The people
adopted the new Constitution, I believe,, under
a universal expectation that we should collect
higher duties; we must do tbis^ I believe, if we
mean to avoid direct taxation, which was al-
ways a mean of revenuein the particolar States.
But with respect to what the States have judg-

207

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

208

Apui, 35, 1769.]

Duliea on Imporia.

[H. OF R.

«d exfiedient to be deriyed from this source, let
as turn to authentic acts: they will neither de-
ceife nor mislead us. We find, in Massachu-
setts, one-sixth of a dollar laid some years ago;
if it did not succeed, was it not owing to the
inaospicioas policy of the neighboring States?
In Pennsylvania the consumer of rum pays to
GoreromeBt ten pence a 'gallon.

The same gentleman has said, that our laws
ought to be such as to execute themselves, and
not depend upon the support of the people; now
1 cannot discern how the law can execute itself
withoat the support of the people, therefore I
think it right to place the dependence where I
have imagined it will be well supported. It was
also remarked, that smuggling depraves the
morals of the people. If we are to consider the
effect of our laws in this point of view. (laying
aside the corruption which the general use of
ram occasionsO let us consider what will be the
effect of a deficiency in the revenue, by the
proposed reduction of the impost; and no gen-
tleman has suggested a substitute for this defal-
cation, nor pretends that we shall raise more
than we want. What, then, will be the conse-
ouenceP Lessening the impost will prevent the
Government from performing its engagements,
and doing justice to its creditors. Have we not
seen the turpitude of such conduct, and the
consequent contamination of morals? Examine
both sides, and say which of those evils is roost
to be deinrecated. But if people are disposed
to enter into a system of smugcling, they will
find a better interest in runnin^ne goods with
onir five or ten per cent than in sucii a bulky
and inconvenient article as rum at thirty per
cent. A worthy gentleman from Connecticut
(Mr. Wadsworth) suspects there is not mo-
ney enough in the country to pay the duties. If
there is any dearth of money, let us take mea-
sures to prevent the importation of rum, and
then we may get money for our produce, and
soon supply the vacancy. I cannot believe the
virtue ot our citizens is so weakly fortified as
not to resist the impression which a seeming in-
terest may make; tneir conduct under the Brit-
ish Government in the article of smuggling, is
no proof to me of a natural disposition to evade
a just tax; they conceived themselves^ at that
time oppressed by a nation in whose councils
they had no share, and the resistance on this
principle was justified to their consciences; but
as the case is altered, so that each has an equal
voice in every regulation, I do not despair of a
great revolution in sentiment in this particular,
when it is known and understood that the man
who wounds the honor of his country by a base-
ness in defrauding the revenue, only exposes
his neighbors to further and greater impositions.
Under this impression, I trust the great body
of the people will unite and drive out smug-
gline from our country.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs observed to the House, that
the decision of the present question, in his
mind, involved some very important alterations
in the present measure; the consequences re-

sulting from which ought to be well considered.
In order, therefore, to gain time for this pur-
pose, he would move an adjournment; where-
upon the House adjourned.

Saturday, April 25.

The House, according to the order of the day,
received the report from the Committee of the
whole House, to the bill to regulate the takinE
the oath or affirmation prescribed by the sixth
article of the constitution; and the amendments
to the said bill being read and amended at the
Clerk's table, were agi*eed to by the House.

Ordered^ That the said bill, with the amend-
ments, be engrossed, and read the third time
on Monday next.

Mr. Benson, from the committee appointed
to consider of the time, place, and manner in
which, and of the person by whom the oath
prescribe^ by the constitution shall be admin-
istered to the President of the United States,
and to confer with a committee of the Senate
for the purpose, reported as followeth:

That the President hath been pleased to signify to
then), that any time or place which both Houses may
think proper to appoint, and any manner which shall
appear most eligible to them, will be acceptable to
him: that requisite preparations cannot probably be
made before Thursday next: that the President be
on that day formally received by both Houses in the
Senate Chamber: that the Representatives' Cfiamber
being capable of receiving the gpreater number of
persons, that therefore the President do take the
oath in that place, and in the presence of both
Houses: that aller the formal reception of the Pre-
sident in the Senate Chamber, he be attended by both
Houses to the Representatives' Chamber, and that the
oath be administered by the Chancellor of this State.

The oommittec further report it as their opinion,
that it will be proper that a committee of both
Houses be appointed to take order for further con-
ducting the ceremonial.

The said report was twice read: and, on the
question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.

Ordered^ That Messrs. Benson, Ames, and
Carroll be a committee on the part of this
House, pursuaVit to the said report.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House then resumed the consideration
of tlie resolutions respecting the impost, as re-
ported by the Committee of the whole on the
state of the Union.

The motion made yesterday by Mr. Boudinot
for reduing the impost on spirits from fifteen to
twelve cents per Eallon, was put and lost.

Mr. Smith, of Maryland, stated, that there
was propriety in discriminating on the. article
of spirits between nations in and not in alli-
ance with us; for which reason he proposed that
a duty of six cents per gallon be laid on all spi-
rit of Jamaica proof imported from the domin-
ions of nations in alliance.

Mr. Lee observed, that a preference was
given to our allies in the tonnage; if more was
necessary to he done, he would rather do it in

209

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

210

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports,

[April 35, 1789.

that way, than by making such alterations in
tiie system as would dve a preference to the
articles indiridually wnich America takes from
them.

Mr. Lawr£nce. — French brandy, I take it,
is as destructive to the morals and health of the
people as West India rum; therefore the argu-
ment drawn from that consideration does not
apply infavor of reducing the duty on the former.
Ir we pay for French brandy in the produce of
oar country, we do the same for West India
rum; therefore tliat argument is not more favor-
able to the one than to the other. I believe, in
short, every argument that applies in one, will
apply in both instances: whether, therefore, it
respects the morals of the people, commerce, or
revenue, there is no reason for the reduction,
unless it be on the principle that the whole of
the duties are too high, and it is proposed to
lower them generally. But one observation fur-
ther may be necessary, to show the effect a par-
tial reduction may have upon the revenue; if
brandy can be imported at a less price than
rum^ the consumption will increase, and in pro-
portion as the consumption of brandy increases,
that of West India rum will diminish; if the
importation of West (ndia rum is lessened, the
revenue will lose all the difierence between the
duty on that article and French brandy.

Mr. FrrzsiMONS thought, when the discrimi-
nation was agreed to in the article of tonnage,
as much was done as the House could be dis-
posed at this time to do; it was certainly enough
to manifest the good disposition of the United
States towards those nations it was intended to
befriend; perhaps it was doing as much as com-
mercial principles would warrant. At an]^ rate,
the measure would lessen the revenue without
giving any material preference, and therefore
was improper.

M. Page thought that brandy was a more
wholesome spirit than any other; but if it was
not wholesome, it was less noxious, and on that
account merited more favor. But the real prin-
ciple on which the motion was founded, was
certainly a discrimination favorable to our al-
lies, and on this account he would support it.

Mr. FiTZSiMONS reminded the House, that
the French had already, by the vote of the com-
mittee, a very considerable advantage in the ar-
ticle of wine, llie French wines were fre-
quently of the most superior quality, and yet
were subjected only to an equal duty with the
lowest from other countries.

Mr. Madisok. — Discriminations, however
small, may have a good political effett; even a
difference of one cent on brandy may have a
tendency to advance the interest of the United
States. I differ essentially from the gentle-
man from New York (Mr. Lawrence) on
the subject of preference. I think we have
a great deal in our power by this policy, if
we make a right use of it. I wish to teach
those nations who have declined to enter into
commercial treaties with us, that we have
the power to extend or withhold advantages as

their conduct shall deserve. If the situation of
our country and our public wants admitted the
experiment, I should interdict the importatio»
of rum altogether, until we should be allowed
to carry to the West India islands, in our own
vessels, the produce of America, which neces-
sity compels them to take. In anv case, where
we have made a treaty to open all our ports to
the vessels of a nation, without stipulatine for
reciprocal advantages, I agree we must abide
by it; but where we have entered into no stipu-
lations, I would give no encouragement unless
equal advantages were obtained on our side.
We have now the power to avail ourselves of
our natural superiority, and I am for beginning
with some manifestation of that ability, that
foreign nations may or might be taught to pay
us that respect which they have neglected on
account of our former imbecility. This lan-
guage and these sentiments are the language
and sentiments of our constituents. The great
political revolution now bmught about, by the
organization of the new Government, has its
foundation in these sentiments. Sensible of the
selfish policy which actuated a nation long dis-
posed to do all she could to discourage our com-
mercial operations, the States singly attempted
to counteract her nefarious schemes; but, fand-
ing their separate exertions ineffectual, with a
united voice they called for a newarrangeraent^
constituted to concentrate, conduct, and point
their powers, so as to obtain that reciprocity
which justice demands. The arrangement has
taken place, and though gentlemen may contend
that we are not at this moment prepared to use
it in the latitude I could wish, yet let them con-
cur in doing what shall indicate, that, on a pro-
per occasion, we dare exert ourselves in defeat-
ing any measure which commercial policy shalf
offer hostile to the welfare of America. The
mere showing such a disposition^ 'at this time,
may have a good effect. I believe such a dis-
crimination as is proposed will be a manifesta-
tion of that disposition; but perhaps a less dis-
crimination may effect the business as well as a
large one; if so, I would rather brandr should
be reduced two or three cents below the West
India rum, and then the revenue would be but
little diminished, and the consumption could
not be supposed to increase considerably.

Mr. Sherman. — The probable ainount of the
duties we have agreed to, will not, in my opin-
ion, exceed two millions of dollars. Thissum is
insufficient to answer the public exigencies^
therefore I should be sorry to reduce much
upon any article. In this case it is not intend-
ed, perhaps, to make a great reduction; ijL is
only to show a preference to our allies; but if the
discrimination on tonnage is not sufficient for
that purpose, I would i-ather make a discrinoi-
nation on hnj other article than ardent spirits,
the importation of which does not deserve en-
couragement from any part of the world.

Mr. Lawrence.— It seems to be admitted
that the supply from the impost will not effec-
tually answer the demands of the United States,

211

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

212

APBIL35, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. 07 R.

and that the article of ram is to be principally
relied upon for raising revenue. These con-
siderations induced the Hoase not to agree with
tbe motion of the gentleman from New Jersey
(Mr. Boubhiot) for reducing distilled spirits.
Gentlemen that urged those considerations ard
BOW advocating the reduction of the duty of
other spirits of equal proof. The natural con-
lequence of this measure must be to encourage
the importation of the latter, and limit the im-
portation of the other. Will not this diminish
the revenue? And do gentlemen come forward
with a stttistitate which will provide for the de-
ficiency? I say, if the consumption of Jamaica
spirit 19 lessened, that of brandy will be in-
creased, and we lessen our revenue in order to
pay tribute to our allies; to manifest our regard
at a great expense to ourselves; but, never-
theless, we are told it is proper to do it, and the
public sentiment of our country is in favor of
the measure, though it is contrary to the prin-
ciple of interest which governs all nations.
When it is a proper time to make these discrim-
inatioos, I shall not be against it; but the Unit-
ed States are not in a condition at present to
engage in a commercial warfare. Such regula-
tions as diese will be met with other regulations
Sr the nation against which they are aimed, and
ey will probably operate with more severity
on us than ours can upon them. I feel myself
impressed with as li velsr a sense of gratitude to the
French nation for their4mportant services during
the late revolution, as any man; yet I have an
equal affection for the interests ot my country;
and before I accede to a measure like the pre-
sent, I ask this question — whether we are in
such a condition as to make it necessary for the
United States to pay tribute to our allies? For
what are these sacrifices to be made? Is our
commerce on such a favorable footing with them
as to require this manifestation of regard on our
parts? We have the privilege of entering with
our v^sels into some particular ports m the
West Indies, but the advantage is but small,
and we have done something on tonnage to show
our sense of the favor; surely gentlemen will
admit it is sufficient, and not call upon us for
more, if they compare the actual benefit derived
from our commerce with Britain, to the real
advantages afforded by the French trade. We
can export any of our produce to England in
oar own bottoms, and it pays no higher duty
than if it was carried in British vessels; we ex-
port our produce to the British West India
islands, but it is in their vessels; it is the policy
(rf* that nation to improve her maritime impor-
tance by naviraitien laws, giving a preference
to her own shipping. Can we export our pro-
duce to France, or the French West Indies, on
such good terms? Then the preference, in a
commercial view, is on the other side. The
exportation of iron, lumber, and potash to Bri-
tain is very considerable; but we are told these
articles cannot be got elsewhere, yet they are
frequently imported into England from other
countries, but subjected to a much higher duty

than ours. If Britain was to oblige our articles
to pay similar duties, it would soon counterbal-
ance every good we promise ourselves from dis-
crimination. True it is, we have a right to re-
gulate our commerce, and declare the terms
upon which foreigners shall trade among us,
but we ought to consider the expediency of ex-
ercising our powers so as not to give umbrage
to a nation from whose policy we derive consi-
derable advantage, especially as we are not in
a condition to wage a war of commercial regu-
lations with her. There may a time come, and
soon, when our tonnage shall be increased, and
our manufactures improved, so as to enable us
to come forward with regulations adverse to the
commerce of that nation. At present, I deem
such measures impolitic; but, when the mo-
ment of our improvement arrives, I shall be as
well disposed to enter on that business as any
gentleman. At this time, it is certainly impoli-
tic, inasmuch as it affects the revenue, ana en-
gages us in commercial hostilities. If the House
only makes a diminution of two cents pereal-
Ion, and it should change the consumption from
rum to brandy, it will oe a very considerable
loss on four million gallons — it will be eighty
thousand dollars annually.

Mr. Madison. — I did not rightly compre-
hend the gentleman who has just sat down,
when he supposed the discrimination which is
moved for to be merely the payment of a tax
or tribute to our allies, and, therefore, cannot
reply particularly to what I did not compre-
hena; but I acknowledge with pleasure the
services America derived from that nation, and
I admit the justice of the debt we owe her; but
I never meant that the preferences we are in-
clined to show her, in coipmon With nations
with which we have commercial treaties, should
be considered as a tribute to our allies; I con-
sider it rather as a lesson to those Powers that
are not within that description. If it reduces
the revenue, it is a good object so far as the re-
duction goes; if it is reduced one or two cents,
it will have no sensible effect upon the amount
of the duties collected from distilled spirits.
In Virgnia, brandy from France, imported in
either French or Ajnerican bottoms, is clear of
duty, whilst the duty on rum is six pence per
gallon that money. There have not, however,
been imported more than 10,000 gallons an-
nually, till very lately, and now it amounts to
but 13,000, while the quantity of West India
rum is from 500,000 to 600,000. This tends to
show the proportion the two articles bear to
each other, and the effect it would have on the
revenue. The gentleman supposes that a dif-
ference of one or two cents will change the
consumption from rum to brahdy; but commer-
cial peonle do not suddenly alter their opera-
tions. Besides, the habits and prejudices of the
community are not easily removed; the habit of
using rum is so fixed, that it will perhaps take
more than a century to change it to another
object — hence the evil, which the gentleman
contemplates as resulting from the present

218

GALES & SEATON^S HISTORY

214

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 26, 1789.

measure, must be remote indeed. But I am
clearly of opinion, that a discrimination will
have the most salutary effects; it will redound
both to the honor and interest of America to
give some early token of our capacity and dis-
position to exert ourselves to obtain a recipro-
city in trade.

Let us review the policy of Great Britain
towards us. Has she ever shown any disposi-
tion to enter into reciprocal regulations? Has
she not, by a temporising policy, plainly declar-
ed that, until we are able and willing to do
justice to ourselves, she will shut us out from
her ports, and make us tributary to her? Have
we not seen her taking one legislative step after
another to destroy our commerce? Has not her
Legislature given discretionary powers to the
Executive, that so she might be ever on the
watch, and ready to seize every advantage the
weakness of our situation might expose? Have
we not reason to believe she will continue a
l>olicy void of regard to us, whilst she can con-
tinue to gather into her lap the benefits we
feebly endeavor to withhold, and for which she
ought rather to court us by an open and liberal
participation of the commerce we desire? Will
she not, if she finds us indecisive in counteract-
ing her machinations, continue to consult her
own interest as heretofore? If we remain in a
state of apathy, we do not fulfil the object of
our appointment; most of the States in the
Union have^ in some shape or other, shown
symptoms of disapprobation of British policy.
Those States have now relinquished the power
of continuing their systems, but under an im-
pression that a more emcient Government would
effectualljr support their views. If we are timid
and inactive, we disappoint the just expecta-
tions of our constituents, and I venture to say
we disappoint the verv nation aeainst whom
the measure is principally directeci.

It has been said, that Great Britain receives
all the produce of this country in our own bot-
toms. I believe that in some ports of that
kingdom our vessels are admitted, but those in
the West Indies, into which we want admis-
sion most, are closely barred against us; but
the reason that she admits us is, because it is
necessary to repay herself for her exports to
this country, and to constitute herself a market
for this and the European nations. Adventi-
tious causes have drawn within the commercial
vortex of her policy almost all the trade of
America; and tne productions of the most dis-
tant climes, consumed among us» are tributary
to her revenue. As long, therefore, as we do
not protect ourselves, and endeavor to restore
the stream of commerce to its natural channel,
we shall find no relaxation on the part of Bri-
tain; the same obnoxious policy will be pursued
while we submissively bear the oppression. This
is a copious subject, and leads to serious and
important reflections. After what has passed,
I am certain that there is a disposition to make
a discrimination, to teach the nations that are
not in alliance with us that there is an advan-

tage to t>e gained by the connexion; to give
some early symptom of the power and will of
the new Government to redress our national
wrongs, must be productive of benefit. We
soon shall be in a condition, we now are in a
condition, to waee a commercial warfare with
that nation. The produce of this country is
more necessary to the rest of the world than
that of other countries is to America. If we
were disposed to hazard the experiment of in-
terdicting the intercourse between us and the
Powers not in alliance, we should have over-
tures of the most advantageous kind tendered
by those nations. If we have the disposition, we
have abundantly the power to vindicate our cause.
Let us but show the world that we know just-
ly how to consider our commercial friends and
commercial adversaries. Let us show, that if
a war breaks out in Europe, and is extended
and carried on in the West Indies, we can
treat with friendship and succor the one, while
we can shut the other out of our ports. By
these favors, without entering into the contest,
or violating the law of nations, or even the pri-
vilege of neutrals, we can give the most decid-
ed advantage.

I will not enlarge on this subject; but it must
be apparent to every gentleman, that we pos-
sess natural advantages which no other nation
does; we can, therefore, with justice, stipulate
for a reciprocity in commerce. The way to
obtain this is by discrimination; and, therefore,
though the proposed measure may not be very-
favorable to the nations in alliance, yet I hope
it will be adopted for the sake of the principle
it contains. I should rather be in favor of a
small discrimination than a large one. on pur-
pose to avoid the loss of revenue which, any-
how, in this article, will be but trifling.

Mr. FrrzsiMONS was firmly of opinion, that
the trade of the United States was of so much
importance to Great Britain, that she would
willingly ^ant our shipping reciprocal advanta-
ges in the ^Vest India ports rather than run tlie
risk of losing it; he was entirely in sentiment
with the gentleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madi-
son,) that it would be possible to meet that na-
tion with regulations that would force her to
open her West India ports. If the importation
of rum was to be prohibited to any considerable
degree, it would produce this effect; for if it
was not for the market the United States af-
forded for the consumption of rum, the sugar
colonies would not be worth keeping; the rum
alone bears the whole expense of cultivation.
The quantity consumed in other parts is but
small, so that a measure of this leind would
have the most desirable effect; but how far it
would be politic, at this moment, to adopt a se-
vere remedy for the evil, was doubtful; it is,
perhaps, much better to make only a small dis-
crimination for the present.

He would not repeat the observation he had
made on a former occasion, to show the policy
of a similar measure, but would just ado, that
Great Britain took nothing from America which

215

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

216

April S7, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. OF R.

she could procure as cheap elsewhere, and there
can be bat very little danger that she will do
any thing to niake those articles cost the con-
somer more money; and any obstacles she might
throw in to embarrass that part of our com-
merce must inevitably have that effect.

Mr. Smith, of Maryland, in reply to the
geatieman from New York, (Mr. Lawrence,)
who had said that the British admitted all the
produce of America into the ports of England,
would call to the recollection of the committee
a very considerable production which was re-
stricted, unless it exceeded a certain rate in
that kingdom— it is wheat and flour: besides,
oar vessels are always subjected to hiener duties
than Bnti&h. For these reasons he hoped the
clause would prevail.

The motion then for agreeing to the discrimi-
nating clause was put and earned, and the du-
ties were ordered to be, on all spirits of Jamai-
ca proof imported from nations in alliance,
twelve cents per gallon; on all other spirits
from the same nations, ten cents.

Mr. fiouDiNOT moved to reduce the duty
on Madeira wine, from an apprehension that it
woo Id be injurious to the commerce of the Unit-
ed States. The observations he had made on a
fonner occasion respecting the amount of the
duty, the length of time it was requisite to keep
this wine before it was fit for sale, and the
embarrassment a forced sale must occasion to
the merchant, induced him to endeavor to pre-
vail on the House to lower the duty.

Mr. Madison acquiesced in reducing this
duty, because it was too high to insure its due
collection, to twenty-five cents.

Mr. FiTzsnfONs opposed the reduction, and
thouglit the duty proportionably low; the col lec-
tion of the impost on wine would be as secure
as the impost on rum. As to the objection that
the merchant could not pay them, he might
cither deposite a part as security for the pay-
ment, or bond the debt, and obtain time. lie
thott^t, as it was a revenue principally paid by
the nch, that no objection could lie against con-
tinuing it at thirty-three and one-third cents.

Tbe question on reducing the duty to twen-
ty-five cents was put and carried.

Tbe doty on all other wines was, of conse-
quence, reduced from twentv cents to fifteen.

On motion of Mr. Ames, the duty on barley
and lime was struck out; and shoes were re-
duced from ten to seven cents.

The remainder of the report was ordered to
lie on the table.

Tbe Speaker laid before the House a letter
from the Vice President of the United States,
notifying the House that the Senate had ap-
pointed the Rev. Doctor Provost Chaplain to
C^sress on their part; and then

The House adjourned.

Monday, April 27.

The engrossed bill to regulate the time and
manner of administering certain oaths, was read

the third time and passed, and ordered to be
sent to the Senate for their concurrence.

On motion,

Ruohed^ That this House will, on Friday next,
proceed by ballot to the appointment of a Chaplain
to Congress on the part of this House.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter
from the Vice President of the United States,
enclosing certain proceedings of the Senate,
touching; the ceremonial of the formal recep-
tion of the President of the United States, by
both Houses; which were read, and order^ to
lie on the table.

Mr. Benson, from the committee of both
Houses, appointed to take order for conducting
the ceremonial of the formal reception of the
President of the United States, reported as fol-
loweth:

« That it appears to the committee more eligible
that the oath should be administered to the Frendent
in the outer gallery adjoining the Senate Chamber,
than in the Representatiyes' Chamber, and therefore
submit to the respective Houses the propriety of au-
thorizing their committees to take order as to the
place where the oath shall be administered to the
Premdent, the resolutions of Saturday, assigning the
Representatiyes' Chamber as the place, notwith-
standing."

The said report being twice read,

Resohed, That this House doth concur in the said
report, and authorize the committee to take order
for the change of place thereby proposed.

The Speaker laid before the House a letter
from the Vice President of the United States,
enclosing two orders of the Senate, one of the
13th instant, appointing a committee to confer
with any committee to oe appointed on the part
of this House, respecting the future disposition
of the papers, &c. in the office of the late Se-
cretary of the United States: the other of the
27th instant, for the attendance of both Houses,
with the President of the United States, after
the oath shall be administered to him, to hear
divine service at St. Paul's Chapel: which was
read, and ordered to lie on the table.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House resumed the consideration of the
resolutions reported by the Committee of the
whole on the state of the Union.

Mr. FiTzsiMQNs proposed that a duty of one
hundred cents be laid on cables and cordage,
instead of the fifty cents. He hoped this alter-
ation would take place, otherwise the object the
committee had in view would be defeated. It
is now become tiie interest of the importer to
introduce cordage instead of hemp; the freight
is lower and the value greater.

Mr. Goodhue said that there ought to be a
proper proportion observed, and therefore he
would second the motion.

Mr. Madison thought the question deserved
a careful examination; it had been discussed in
the committee, and it was then determined to

217

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

218

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 87, 1789.

be as necessary to promote agriculture as manu-
factures; that the labor of extracting materials
from the bosom of the earth was as useful as
that employed in ^ving them form; nothing had
been said to invalidate that policy, and there-
fore he did not see it requisite to cherish the
one more than the other by protecting duties.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs admitted the policy of en-
couraging agriculture. He was with the gen-
tleman in that measure; he hoped it might tend
to supersede the necessity of importing both
hemp and cordage; but if some distinction was
not made at present to give the latter an ad-
vantage over the former, we should have cord-
age imported altogether, and the manufacture
destroyed for want of materials.

Mr, Gerry remarked, that the duty which
was laid on cordage was intended to give a
preference to the manufacture of that article;
tifty cents was deemed equal to the obgect, but
no sooner was it laid, than the committee im-
posed a duty of fifty cents on hemp, by which
lueans the manufacture was as much without
encouragement as if nothing had been done. He
begged gentlemen to consider how impor-
tant a manufacture of this kind is to the navi-
gation of the country, and he was persuaded
Biey could not hesitate to agree to the motion
now proposed.

Mr. Madison observed, that if cordage was
80 essential an ingredient in navieation, hemp
was also useful; he doubted from the beginning
the policy of subjecting either of them to a
duty. It was unnecessary to repeat the argu-
ments he had urged on a former occasion; the
House would recollect them, and be satisfied
that it was improper to raise the price of an ar-
ticle necessary to ship-building.

Mr. Wads WORTH .—There is a material dif-
ference between the two objects. There is
but little hemp raised in America; the manu-
facture of cordage is carried to great perfec-
tion; if a duty is laid upon the former, it will
be necessary to lay it heavier upon the latter,
or we shall prevent the European hemp from
coming amongst us; the making of cordage will
be altogether at a stand in America, while all
our supplies of this article are drawn from Eu-
rope; the consequences will be dreadful. The
loss of this manufacture will go far towards an-
nihilating our navigation.

Mr. AlAorsoN said, that one hundred cents
was too much to be allowed on cordage. As a
difference was necessary in the duty between the
two articles, he would move seventy-five cents.

The question on one hundred cents was taken
and lost, and seventy-five cents adopted. It
was then proposed by Mr. Fitzsimons that tar-
red cordage should be taxed ninety cents; this
was agreed to. On motion of Mr. Heister, a
duty of sixty cents on hemp was agreed to, but
not to take place till the 31st December, 1790.
Twine and packthread was raised to two hun-
dred cents per one hundred and twelve pounds.

On molasses:

Mr. Goodhue. — The committee havepostpon-

ed the consideration of this suhject, in order to
indulge the members of Massachusetts with an
opportunity to get information, that so they might
meet the discussion with greater abili]ty; but I
believe they have been unsuccessful on this
head. No communications have been received
from our State; we must therefore proceed to
consider and judge the question bv those lights
which our own minds afford. The article of
molasses is intimately connected with the fish-
eries of our country; it is produced almost alto-
gether in the French West India islands; it is
procured from them in exchange for our fish:
nine months are our fishermen employed on the
banks, but a part of the summer months the
fish they catch is unfit for any other market;
therefore, if we do not find a market for this
kind of fish, they must remain unsold, nor can
we get any thing in return even when it is sold
but molasses or rum: for they allow us to bring
away no other articles. The i*eaaoQ why they
allow us those is, because they do not wish them
to be imported into Europe, lest they should
interfere with their wines. It is a well knowu
fact, that if we did not take those articles, they
would prohibit oui' fish. From this view, it ap-
pears to me, that if the importation of molas-
ses should fall through* our fisheries must fall
with it: it will likewise be well for the House to
consider, that.molasses is a necessary of life; at
least •ttstom has made it such among the poorer
class of our people; those who cannot afford the
expense of sugar, use molasses. Each of our
fishermen consumes, on an average, twelve gal-
lons annually, while employed in his business.
Now the committee have dutied this article at
thirty per cent, upon the prime cost, which is
greater in proportion to its value than any on
tlie list. The reason that was urged in support
of a high duty was, that the revenue might be
raised from country rum, in a ratio with what
had been levied on West India. If tliia is the
principal reason, I think it would be more just
to raise it by way of excise at the still-head, and
not include that in the rough state consumed
by the poor. To equalize this duty, we have
agreed to one penny a pound on brown suear;
but six cents per gallon on 30,000 hogsheads of
molasses will raise 180,000 dollars, which is a
much greater sum than all the sug^r consumed
in America will pay. Massachusetts imports
that quantity of molasses, and would contnbute
more than Pennsylvania for all the rum and
sugar imported into that State; for« on a calcula*
tion from the late statements, I nnd the duty
on both these articles amounts to no more than
164,000 dollars; yet Massachusetts imports her
oroportion besides of West India rum and suear.
Now, it appears to me, that on the principle of
equality, tins duty is too high, because it affects
one State more than all the others together; be-
sides it is too high in comparison with the duty
now collected in the several States. In New
Yprk it is trifling; in Virginia it falls among
the mass of non-enumerated articles; in Massa-
chusetts it pays no duty. I am well persuad-

219

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

220

Aprils?, 1789.]

ihUies on Imports.

[H. OF R.

€d, that the House would not wish to sul^ect
any State to heavier burthens than the others;
hut it will he the case, unless they separate the
distilled spirit from the i-aw substance. If this
can be done no other way, it can be done by ex-
cise, which will ^ive less umbrage to Massa-
chusetts than 80 hi^ an impost. The House
will therefore consider well before they decide
the question, and on principles of justice and
policy reduce the duty.

Mr. Sherman had not made up his mind
on the subject; but he thought it necessary that
some way should bedevised of coming at a pro-
portionable duty on country rum, otherwise the
preference it would obtain by the lowness of the
price nivst occasion a considerable diminution
of the revenue, by lessening tlie consumption of,
foreign rum. Ifan excise was an agreeable tax,
perhaps it migiht be so managed as to answer
the end; but he feared it was a disagreeable one
in some States, and ought therefore to be well
considered before it was laid. He would, while
he was up, mention another idea. He had said,
in a former debate, that he would rather give
our allies a preference over other foreign nations
in any artide than spirits. Molasses is an arti-
cle principally imported from the colonies of
nations in alliance; a discrimination, therefore,
in favor of such molasses would be a substantial
benefit, and he recommended it in lieu of that
on brandy.

Mr. Jackson was opposed to a redaction of
the daty; he thought it ought to he laid high, in
order to come at the necessary tax on rum. He
kDewthedistilleriesaiveagallonofrumforagal-
lon of molasses, and therefore the iropnust on each
ou^t to be in due proportion^ otherwise country
ram would he sold lilty p«r cent, cheaper than
West India. If he considered the subject, as it
related to the morality and health of his fellow
citizens, he sight venture to pronounce the
New England rum five hundred times as bad in
its effects as any from the West Indies; if there-
fore the House wished to obtain revenue, or
discourage the use of bud spirits, they would
continue the present rate.

Mr. GutRY. — It is clear by this time to the
Honse, that we have in contemplation no other
mode of obtaining revenue but the impost, at
least for the present; the impost must come from
the commercial States, and therefore the bur-
thens should be light, or one part of the com-
munity is oppressed more than the other. It
may be said, that the duty falls eventually upon
the consumer, and therefore all the States par-
ticipate in the payment. But gentlemen will
admit the importer pays the revenue in the first
instance, and I grant that if he sells his commo-
dities on good terms, he provides for the re-pay-
ment; but in case of failure in the person to
whom he sells them, he loses the duty, and the
cooaamer does not pay it. Considermg the de-
plorable condition of our country, it is not un-
likely but misfortunes of this kind will frequent-
ly happen. This argument is directed against
igh auties generally, or, in other words, it is

directed against the rate of almost every article
on the list. The article of molasses is now im-
ported under very great disadvanti^es, but if it
is burthened with an imfxist of six cents per
<;allon, the trade must be given up; the price of
It has latterly increased in the West Indies so
much as to make it scarcely worth importing*
If on a cargo of two hundred hogsheads a mer-
chant has to pay down three hundred and nine-
ty-six pounds more for the impost, he had better
not bring it; but gentlemen will tell us. that he
may have time by giving security tor the pay-
ment. Sir, such is the scarcity of money in the
country, that it will put him under the necessi-
ty of forcing a sale for the molasses. But if the
whole of this article was made into rum. six
cents would be an over proportioned du^, both
as it relates to the price and quality of West
India rum; but when the fact is otherwise, and
very large quantities are consumed in the raw
state by the people, and the poorest of the peo-
ple too, it certainly must be judged too heavy.
There are no breweries in our country; it may
be our misfortune, but the people there use mo-
lasses, with spruce and hops, as a substitutes
and why should they be taxed for this inoffen-
sive liquor more than the consumers of beer
brewed from malt? How would the middle
States view a tax on malt beer? They would
think it unwise and oppressive; yet a tax on
molasses affects the Eastern States in a similar
manner.

This duty will prevent the sale of molasses to
the distiller; it must reduce his capital, and he
cannot buy so much as he used to do; to obviate
this oliucction, it is proposed that a drawback
shall be allowed upon what is exported. Bat
why should such policy be necessary f It is very
well known that drawbacks iigure both trade
and revenue, and ought therefore to be avoided.

My colleague over the way has justly stated
the lujury it will do the fisheries. At a time
when the policy of every countiy is pcMnted
against us, to suppress our success in tnis im-
portant branch, when it is witli extreme difficul-
ty that it continues its existence, shall we lay
burthens upon it, which it is unable tosupportr
A fisherman uses, while engaged in his occuna-
tion, twelve gallons of molasses; add to this
what is consumed in his family, and one man
will on an average pay one hundred and eidity
cents. Can gentlemen tell you that one hun-
dred and eighty cents is no burthen upon that
class of men, while its operation is as a poll-tax,
a poll-tax towards which the poor contribute
more tlian the rich. Every incumbrance laid
upon this branch of our trade acts in tlie na-
ture of a bounty to other nations. If this impor-
tant interest is injured, it will not only destroy
the competition with foreigners, but will induce
the people to sell their property in the United
States, and remove to Nova Scotia, or some
otlier place where they can prosecute their bu-
siness under the protection of Government.
There are at this time four hundred and ei^ty
sail of vessels engaged in the fisheries, amount*

221

GALES & SEATON^S HISTORY

222

H. OF R.]

Dtiiies on Imports.

[April 28, 1789.

ing to 27,000 tons, constantly employed during
the season; it may fairly be supposed that the
exportation of the fish requires half as many
more, say thirteen thousand tons: and is this in-
terest, together with the shipbuilding and fisher-
men, to TO sacrificed for a revenue, which is un-
just and unequal in its principles? Do gentlemen
natter themselves it will be borne without mur-
muring? It certainly will not;for these people, in
adopting the constitution, expected to be reliev-
ed from burthens? If they find them increased,
it is natural to suppose they will be dissatisfied.
It has been frequently observed, that rum is
injurious to the morals of the people: If I could
have mv wish, it should not be to diminish, but
to annihilate the use of it, both foreign and do-
mestic, within the United States: but to encour-
aee the importation from the West Indies, and
destroy our own distilleries, can never be good
policy, yet a duty of six cents per gallon on mo-
lasses will destroy the capitals of the distillers
and ruin the men. But why do this? To pre-
vent the use of rum! yet gentlemen consider
the consumption of spirits as their ereat source
of revenue. It has been observed, that the tax
is unequal, and that the duty on molasses used
in Massachusetts will amount to more than all
the duties on molasses, rum. and sugar used in
Pennsylvania. I would be glad then to know,
upon what principle gentlemen extend the duty
to such a height on molasses? Will any gen-
tleman say it is more a luxury than sugar? and
yet it is taxed in more than a doiible p«*oportion
to it. In short, whether it is considered as it
affects our fisheries^ our ship building, and our
commerce^ of whether we consider it as. too high
for collection,, which it certainly is, it must be
admitted that the object is not worth the sacri-
fice, especially as it may be accomplished in a
more just and certain manner by an excise.

Mr. Sylvestisr concurred in the tat for the
purpose of raising revenue, but he did not wish
It to bear hard on any class of citizens, especial-
ly the poorer class. Was all the molasses im-
ported distilled into rum, he should not have
hesitated to lay even a higher doty; but as the
gentleman had explained the effect it would
have in Massachusetts, he was inclined to agree
with the eastern members, and reduce it one
cent, so as to stand at five; but as it was grow-
ing late, he moved an adjournment, which oeing
agreed to by the House^adjourned. .

Tuesday, April 2&.

Mr. Richard Bland Lee, from the commit-
tee to whom was recommitted the report re-
specting the mode of communicating papers,
bills, and foessages, between the two Houses,
reported as followeth:

^' Whea ft message sluU be sent fit>iii the Senate
to thfi House of Repreaentativesy it shall be announc-
ed at the door of the House by the doorkeeper, and
shaU be nespectfully communicated to the Chair, by
the person by whom it may be sent..

"The same ceremony shall be observed when a
message shall be sent from the House of Representa-
tives to the Senate.

<< Messages shall be sent by such persons as a sense
of propriety in each House may determine ta be
proper."

The said report was twice read, and, on the
question put thereupon, agreed to by the House.

A letter from Matthias Ogden, of New Jer-
sey, referring to sundry petitions from citizens
of that State, complaining of illegality in the
late election of Representatives for that State t<^
this House, was read and ordered to lie on the
table.

The order of the Senate of the 13lh instant
was read, appointing a committee to confer
with any committee to be appointed on the part
of this House, respecting the future disposi-
tion of the papers in the office of the late Sec re-
tarv of the United States: whereupon.

Ordered. That Messrs. Trumbull, Cadwai.-
LADSR, ana Jagkson, be a committee for that
purpose.

DUTIES ON IMPORTS.

The House resumed the consideration of the
resolutions reported by the ComnEutte« of the
whole on tlie state of the Union;

The impost on molasses being under consi-
deration,

Mr. Sherman. — This subject was spoken of
pretty largely yestertlay^ I wish tlie gentlemeu
would come forward with some plan that wiU
secure the revenue on rum. They iuti mated
that this eouid be done by way of excise^ if it
can I shall have no objection to reducing the
impost on molasses to two cents, as I do not
wish to burthen the consumption of that arti-
cle in the raw state.

Mr. Wassworth. — I am opposed to a higl^
dutv on molasses for the reasons assigned yes-
terday. Besides, the arguments respecting the
morals and health of the people are not weU
grounded; the fishermen andseatnen belon^ng
to tlie Eastern States are the principal con^
sumers of country rum; they drink more of 'U
perhaps than any other class of people, yet they
are a healthy, robust set of men; and as for
their morals, I believe they will not sutler fron¥
a comparison with their neighbors. But let u^
waive any further remarks on 'this head, witiv
which at this time we have liitle to do, and cuii>
sider the effect a duty of six cents will produce.
The capital employed in this business of distil-
lation amount8,.at least, to half a million of dol-
lars; it has been proved that tlie fisheries de-
pend upon the molasses tradef this trade can-
not be carried on unless the article is manufac-^
turcd into rum, and if the manufacture is en-
couraged, it is likely to become an important
branch of commerce. Considerable quantities-
of New England rum are at present sent to>
Africa and other parts, and a market is lately
opened for it in the north of Europe. This ex-
tension of our commerce is a likely way to in-
ci-ease the number of ouc seamen^ the nsheri£&

223

OF DEBATES IN COxNGRESS.

224

April 28, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. OF R.

are one of the best of nurseries for this |)urpose,
and gentlemen admit the necessity of improv-
tBg oar maritime importance; but the whole of
(h^ irasiness is so connected with the molasses
trade that, if you destroy Ihat, the others must
fall with it.

The duty being so hi^ will never be coUect-
edj the people conceiving it to be an unequal
and unjust tax, will justify to themselves the
Hiicit trade which you drive them into. Every
imIiTidual will be interested to smuggle the
article, and the extent of their sea-coast, their
nameroas inlets and harbors, will furnish abun-
dant means for doing it without fear of de-
tection. I will venture to say, that one-fourth
part of the duty can never be collected, even if
fou fill the country with custom-house officers;
but, if it could be collected, the trade of New
England and the fisheries would be ruined; a
capital of half a million of dollars would be
thrown out of use, and thirty thousand tons of
shipping would be unemployed; for which rea-
son, { hope the House will join in reducing the

Mr. Thatch EK.— I did not intend to rise on
this occasion* because commerce is a subject
with which I cannot pretend to be well ac-
qnainted; yet as the interests of my constituents
are at stake, and the impolicy ol the measure
is so glaring as not to require any very deep re-
searcnes, I may venture to give my opinion
without being deemed presumptuous; besides,
I might not give my fellow- citizens that satis-
faction, in the performance of my duty, which
ttwy have a right to expect, if I were to pass the
^objectover with a silent vote.

It has, on former occasions, been argued, bv
(he members of this House, that adut]^, which
is in itself eitlier unreasonable or partial in its
operation, ought not to be laid, unless for the
parpose of equalizing the system. Now, that
adatyof six cents on molasses is unreasona-
ble, will appear, if we only consider it as a ne-
cessary of life, or as a raw material requisite
for the well-being of an important manufac-
ture.^ It is a necessary of life; the people in
the Eastern Stales have been so long in the
habit of using it in their food and drink, that it
would be litUe less than a revulsion of nature
to change them from it. We have done some-
thiog on this occasion to favor the breweries in
the middle States; then why should we deprive
oQr Eastern brethren of a simple liquor which
they equally approve^

It has been proved that the success of the
uiv^tion and fisheries of Massachusetts de-
pend npon this trade; six cents will amount to
a prohibition; then the question will regard the
policy of producing such effects by our regula-
tions. This article, considered as a raw ma-
terial for a well established and profitable ma-
bsfacture, ou^t not to be prohibited; but when
it IS distilled mto rum, it is said to ble injurious
to the health and morality of the people, i
Wl not take up the time of the committee
Kith an examination of this position; but sup-

posing it to be admitted, I will ask the gentle-
men if molasses ought on this account to be
taxed any more than other materials that are
worked up into more pernicious liquors; such
as lye, apples, and peaches? What would be
the opinion of the gentlemen from Virginia, if a
member was to propose a duty on those arti-
cles equal to six cents, and urge as a reason for
so doing, that it was necessary, in order to keep
up the ratio between whiskev and Jamaica spi-
rits? I conceive they would deem the propo-
sition and argument absui^; they would never
consent to its being done. What, then, ought
to be the language of the people of New Eng-
land on a proposal for taxing an article equally
as useful to them as fruit is to the Southern
States? I will place the subject in one other
|)oint of view, with the leave of the Chair, be-
fore I conclude the subject. How is the molas-
ses broueht into the State? It is the exchange
procured by the hard labor and industry of the
Eastern inhabitants; they toil late and early,
day and night, in a business beset with danger
and difficulty; they go in search of fish to the
Banks, remote from their home, and when
these are procured, thev cannot consume them;
they must dispose of (hem to foreigners. But
no market offers unless by barter; it is of ne-
cessity that they bring back molasses in ex-
change; this then becomes the produce of their
industry, as much as the rice and tobacco of
Virdnia and Carolina become the staple articles
of the labor of those States. Can any reason
be assigned why the industry of Massachusetts
should be imposted; while that of the other
States goes free; ana to my mind it is equal,
whether the produce itself, or the returns for it,
are subjected to a duty. The effects are the
same; it operates to discourage the pursuit; but
the returns for tobacco and nee are not impost-
ed in any thing near a proportion with molas-
ses. Let us compare it in one other point of
light. Suppose a member from Massachusetts
was to propose an impost on negroes, what
would you hear from the Southern gentlemen,
iffiftv dollars was the sum to be laid? Ana
yet this is not more than the proportion laid
upon molasses. If the pernicious effects of
New England rum have been justly lamented,
what can be urged for negro slavery? Certainly
there is no comparison; but I will avoid the
enumeration of its evils, and conclude with a
hope that, if the House will not condescend to
stnke it out, they will reduce it to two cents.
It will be unnecessary to recapitulate the im-
mediate connexion between this article, the
fisheries, and our navigation. I trust it is
clearly seen by the House, if a high duty is still
insisted upon molasses, you will have to go
further and provide energetic means for the
execution; for the people will hardly bear a tax
which they cannot but look upon as odious and
oppressive. If gentlemen are determined in
persisting on what was carried in the Commit-
tee of the whole, they ought to know, with as
much precision as possible, what they are to

225

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

226

H. ofR.]

Duties on Imporit,

[April 28, 1789.

expect. If (be support and ^ood will of 400,000
citizens are worthy of cultivation, the House
will decide the present question with candor and
inoderation; they will ever consider that their
laws ought as much as possible to be conforma-
ble to the customs, habits^ and sentiments of
that people whose conduct they are intended
to regulate.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — I am sorry, Mr. Speaker,
at this stage of the business, to hear any thing
that sounds like an attachment to particular
States, when we are laying a general duty to
affect the whole. For my part, I consider my-
self as much the representative of Massachu-
setts as of New Jersey, and nothing shall pre-
vail on me to injure the interest of the one more
than the other. I profess myself a friend to
the present revenue system, because it is the
best way of getting money to supply our neces-
sities. I am the more attached to it, because
I conceive it will prevent an application to di-
rect taxes. I sav, I would avoid every thing
which would malce a difference between the
States, and therefore I like the system before
you; it goes upon the principle of mutual con-
cession. It would be impossible to impose a
duty on any article that will not affect one
State more tnan some others; but we have en-
deavored to equalize the burthens as much as
possible. I confess, at the same time, that I
consider the duty on molasses too high; but it
is for the same reason that I consider all the
other articles too high. I do nf>t conceive that
it is much out of proportion to rum. The ob-
ject I have in view by the impost is, to produce
revenue enough to answer the necessities of the
United States, and to have it done according
to system. I have endeavored to establish
some principle by which we should be govern-
ed in laying the duties. I have endeavored to
do this in my own mind, and have fixed on
about twenty-five per cent, on the value of the
articles at the time and place of importation.
If we infringe this principle, it ought to be in
favor of a raw material ^ to increase the manu-
facture of an article within the Union, or se-
cure the collection of the revenue. I confess,
Mr. Speaker, I agree with the gentlemen from
Massachusetts that six cents are too high. If
we reckon the cost of the molasses, we shall find
five cents to be nearer the proportion of twenty-
five per cent, which we have laid on other ar-
ticles. If we consider it as a raw material, we
ought to make some further allowance; it we
admit, on this account, the reduction of one
cent more, it will be as much as is necessary.
If we then take up the idea that molasses is a
necessary of life« and that a great part of it en-
ters into the support of the inhabitants, I think
we may justly lower it another cent. By this
allowance we shalfcome down to a proper me-
dium, and secure the collection of the duty. If
we could accomplish our object of taxing rum
in any other way than by laying a duty on the
raw material, perhaps it might be proper to re-
duce it to what gentlemen have mentioned; but.

as I despair of this, I think Uiree cents would
be as low as we ought to go. As to the propo-
sition for an excise to be levied at the still -head,
I cannot vote for it; the very name of such a
tax is odious, nor will the multiplication of offi-
cers necessary to collect it be less so; but I be-
lieve this idea has not met any countenance in
the House.

It has been hinted, that four hundred thou-
sand people disapprove the measure. I give
every weight to information which gentlemen
lay before the House, but in this case I take it
to be no more than matter of Opinion. I liave
so high an idea of the good sense and patriotism
of the citizens of Massachusetts, that I never
can be persuaded that if this House, on princi-
ple, think it expedient to lay a duty on anj
particular article^ the inhabitants of that State
will rise in opposition to the measure. 1 believe
them to be as well aff*ected to the Government
as any other part of /he United States, and that
our acts will receive as ,ready attention and as
prompt execution among them as elsewhere, pro-
vided we act on principle.

I felt myself sorry to hear a comparison drawn
between the Eastern and Southern States. I
thought the reasoning used on that point falla-
cious; the principles were not true; so, of con-
sequence, the conclusion was erroneous. The
inference was this, that from the labor and in-
dustry of the Eastern people fish were obtain-
ed, and from the labor of the Southern States,
other articles of commerce were produced. The
question was then asked, why should the arti-
cles obtained in exchange for the one be sub-
jected to higher duties than the other? If this
were the case, I should admit, with the gentle-
man, that it was a partial imposition; but do not
we lav an equal duty on the articles imported
into the Southern States? Let the gentleman
examine the list, and say, if the articles taken
in exchange for tobacco and rice do not pay as
much as molasses. Some articles essential to
agriculture are considerably taxed, such as steel
and salt; but they pay above twenty- five per
cent, on the rum they receive, which is more
than I contend ought to be paid upon molasses.
But gentlemen ought not to contend that all the
duty paid on molasses is taken out of the pock-
ets ot the inhabitants of Massachusetts. They
export to other parts of the United States great
quantities of their rum, tlie consumer of which
repays the duty on molasses. The port of Phil-
adelphia alone, in one year, received of this ar-
ticle 360,000 gallons^ will not the consumer in
Pennsylvania, therefore, pay the duty on that
quantity?

I consider the object we ousht to have in vie v
is, to lay our duties upon solid piinciples. I
have given the principles upon wnich we ought
to reduce the impost on molasses to three cents.
I will only now mention the temptation that six
cents would be to smuggle; but, as I instanced
before a fact relative to this circumstance, I
will not repeat it, contenting myself in stating
to the House my fear that a high duty will be

227

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

228

April 88, 1789.]

Duties on Imports.

[H. OF R.

vnprodactive, while a low one will be more
favorable to the revenue.

Mr. Madison. — ^I shall make no observation,
Mr. Speaker, upon the language of the gentle-
man from Massachusetts, (Mr. Thatcher,)
because I do not conceive it expresses either
the deliberate temper of his own mind, or the
good sense of his constituents. I am more in-
clined to try this measure by the rule of jus-
tice, than on the imaginary eflTects which sen-
tiemen's apprehensions fear it will produce. 1 do
not find, from what has been saicf yesterday or
this morning, that the arguments have taken a
different turn, or that the opposition is support-
ed on any other principles than it was on a for-
mer debate. The subjects that were before dis-
cussed have been repeated and amplifiedj but
no new matter has oeen offered; nothing has
been said to invalidate the former decision of the
committee. We are told again, that the conse-
quence of so high a duty on molasses will be
tne destruction of one part of our commerce im-
portant to our allies,*and essential to a consid-
erable manufacture; that without this branch of
commerce our fisheries cannot be carried on. I
should have supposed that, in order to make
good this doctrine, the gentlemen in opposition
ought to have shown what disadvantage the
manufacture of rum would be exposed to great-
er than it used to be when the molasses stood
clear of duty, but had the competition of West
India rum^ also without duty. I find, before
the revolution, that the quantity of molasses an-
nually imported, amounted to 3,580,J44 Eal-
lons; the quantity of rum manufactured within
the same period, was 2,534,253 gallons. At tnis
time West India rum was subjected to no duty,
and molasses paid one penny sterling per gal-
lon, nearly equal to three cents, or half the pre-
sent duty. Now, if the manufacture was car-
ried on with profit (and the extent of it proves
that it was productive) when it had. to contend
with a duty of fifteen per cent, on the value of
the raw material, against a superior liauor im-
ported dutv free, is it to be imagined tnat this
trade is to be destroved by a duty only double
on molasses, when the competition is support-
ed by an impost fifty-fold of what it was be-
fore, against foreign rum? I think it can be
demonstrated from calculation, that if the duty
was extended to fifteen cents per gallon, it
would still receive encouragement superior to
what it had before the revolution. If we com-
pare the state of the manufacture since the re-
volution, we shall find it laboring under great-
er disadvantages than what can arise from the
proposed duty. In almost all the States it has
been considered and treated as foreign rum;
yet even under the disadvantage which this
must have occasioned, we find tnat the expor-
tation to the several parts of the United States,
amounts annually to 500, 000 or 600,000 gallons;
a certain proof that it is able to carry on a suc-
cessful competition in America with West In-
dia mm, without the aid of Government; and
that the preference given by this revenue sys-

tem, and by the new constitution, which per-
mits its free entry into every State, will enable
the manufacture to rise into an importance hith-
erto unknown to it.

We are told that molasses ia not merely used
in the distilleries, but that it enters into the
subsistence of the inhabitants as an article of
food, and that in this light it bears harder upon
the poor than upon the rich. I will not deny
but the consuinption of molasses in substance is
greater in the Eastern States than in the others;
but I do presume that this disproportion of con-
sumption is productive of an equalization in the
system. If we compare the consumption of the
Northern and Southern States, as it respects
the articles of sugar and molasses, we shallfind
that the duty on the molasses does not bear hard-
er upon the one than sugar'does upon the other;
for reduce a gallon of molasses to weight, in
order to make the comparison fairly, you will
find it weighing at least eight pounds; now,
eight pounds of this article, taxed at six cents,
cannot be so much as eight pounds of sugar at
one cent per pound, so that on the ground of
equality I do not see there is any room for
the opposition to maintain themselves. It has
been said, that the duty will beburthensome on
the merchants, and require greater capitals than
they |)osses9^ or will necessarily lessen their
operations. There may be some weight in this
consideration; but let me ask the gentlemen if
it does not apply to our duties in general. Will
they say that the objection is sufficient to deter
us from this mode of taxation? i apprehend it
will not be said, because it has been constantly
admitted in this House, that although it is an
inconvenience, yet it is such a one as must be
submitted to, to avoid a ereater; either we must
derive a revenue from this source, or take a
mode much more exceptionable.

But how will it affect the fisheries? It is said
that if rum is indirectly taxed, through molas-
ses, it will ruin this interest; yet, at the same
time, the State of Massachusetts collects near
seventeen cents per gallon from rum. Then
there must k)e a drawback allowed on what is
consumed in that business; but I am informed
there is no drawback allowed, so that the fish-
eries at present labor under greater discourage-
ment from the policv of Massachusetts, than
they will be exposed to from the policy of the
United States. 1 he gentlemen have told us that
the duty cannot be collected, from a supposi-
tion that the officers will neglect their duty, or
that the high impost furnished such a tempta-
tion that tne people cannot withstand it, and
must} of conseiquence, engage in an illicit trade.
If this supposition is warrantable, how can the
duty affect the fisheries? If it is not warrant-
able, can it be supposed that a duty of three-
fourths of a cent on a pound of sweetening, in
the form of molasses^ will mortally affect the
terms on which the fishermen carry on their
buMness? And will it contribute to the success
of other nations engaged in the same employ-
ment? When gentlemen so repeatedly tell us

22d

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

2S0

H. or R.]

Duties on Imports.

[April 28, 1789.

it will be impossible to guard against smug-
gling, I own it has made some impression on
my mind. I fear we shall encounter difficul-
ties in this part of our regulations; but I trust
they will not be greater, as they respect the col-
lection of a duty on molasses, than on other ar-
ticles, the bulk and weight of which, added to
the smallness of its value, will rather deter
people from engaging in a clandestine trade of
this kind, than almost any other, I believe
more just apprehensions may be entertained
with respect to tea, a pound of which is taxed
at twenty cents. 1 do not, therefore, conceive
that the arguments drawn from the danger of
smuggling molasses- are of an insuperable na-
ture.

It has been sugg^ted to the House, that
there would be more propriet)r and convenience
in substituting an excise in lieu of part of the
impost duty. For my part, I consider such a
tax inexpedient, if not impolitic. It will not be
necessary to (^o into a tliscussion of its expe-
diencv, tor it is a question not before the House.
It will be time enough to enter upon the sub-
ject when it has been proved by experience that
the impost is inefTectual; at present, I will con-
tent myself with obs^erving, that an excise, in
tny opinion, would be received with indigna-
tion in some 'parts of the Union, and it is not
for this Government to disgust any of its citi-
zens if it can be avoided.

It has been said, that the duty agreed to by
the committee is higher than has been laid by
any particular State qpon molasses. Granted:
but are gentlemen unacquainted with this cir-
cumstance—all the rum imported from New
England into those States was subjected to a
heavy duty, and the duty on the rum answered
the purpose which the committee had in con-
templation, when they agreed to six cents per
gallon on molasses. The States have now dis-

aualified themselves from this means of self
efence; if the General Government, therefore.
does not defend them, thejr will be abandoned
altogether to the effects of a torrent poured in
upon them by the Massachusetts distillers.
Surely gentlemen who are in favor of reducing
the impost on molasses, do not consider the ef-
fect it will have upon the revenue; when it
stands at six cents, it leaves a bounty of sevei-al
cents to favor a competition with West India
rum. We have been witnesses to the great
quantity manufactured even when the raw ma-
terial had a high duty upon it, and had to con-
tend with foreign rum, which was dutv free. I
have no doubt but under this favoraBle regu-
lation the manufacture will increase; if the
duty shall be reduced, we bid fair to lose the
great revenue we expect from West India rum,
and have its place supplied with a baser spirit.
Thus the interests of 3,000,000 of our fellow-
citizens are to be saci-ificed to the establishment
of a few distilleries.

If, on a general view of the system, gentle-
men had proved that Massachusetts would be
injured, they might, with propriety, contend

for the reduction of this article; but I think I
can say with truth, and support the position,
that that end of the continent will not bear a
greater proportion of the public burthen than
the other: there are, as has been often remark-
ed before, parts of this system which bear hard-
er upon some States than others; but, take the
whole together, the duties will not be uneaual.
Those States that raise less produce export less;
consequently the^ import less, and consume in
the same proportion: if so, they must pay less
impost than other States. It is on these prin-
ciples I contend aeainst a reduction of the duty,
and I think the House, upon a strict examina-
tion of the subject, will be found to have shown
a great degree of liberality to their Eastern
brethren J vvnen they were satisfied with carry-
ing the impost on molasses no higher than six
cents.

Mr. Ames. — I appeal, Mr. Speakkr, wfth
confidence, to the justice of this House, though
I am far from being convinced that any liberal-
ity has been shown in fixing the duty on mo-
lasses; but I am persuaded that Congress wiU
adopt no measures but those they can justify on
principle to their constituents.

I conceive, sir, that the present constitution
was dictated by commercial necessity more than
any other cause. The want of an efficient Go-
vernment to secure the manufacturing inter-
ests, and to advance our commerce, was long
seen by men of judgment, and pointed out by-
patriots solicitous to promote our general wel-
fare. If the duty which we contend against is
found to defeat these objects, I am convinced
the representatives of the people will give it up.
I trust that gentlemen are well satisfied, that
the support of pur agriculture, manufactures,
navigation, and fisheries, are objects of very
ereat moment. When gentlemen contemplate
the fishery, they admit its importance, and the
necessity we are under of encouraging and pro-
tecting it, especially if they consider its declin-
ing situation; that it is excluded from those ad-
vantages which it formerly obtained in British
ports, and participates but in a small degree of
the benefits arising from our European allies,
whose markets are visited under severe restric-
tions; yet, with all these discouragements, it
maintains an extent which entitles it to the fos-
tering care of Government. There are taken,
upon an average, 400,000 quintals offish; in this
branch of business, as was stated by my col-
league, there are employed 34,000 tons of ship-
ping in the transportation of tiie fish to market,
and, in the returns of molasses, near an equal
tonnage is employed. The building of these
vessels furnishes no inconsiderable employment
to another important interest; the vessels, it is
true, are but small, yet, after every deduction
on this account, the concern will be found in-
teresting to the public welfare. If it is true,
and I believe it is, that agriculture and com-
merce are mutually dependent upon each other^
and there is a probability that the additional
burthen we have imposed will injure the latter.

231

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS,

2S2

Apbu. 38, 1789.]

JhUies on Imporia.

[H. OF R.

gentlemen ought to be cautious how they per-
sist. If they even doubt of its effects being
hortfttl, thev oudit not to vote for its continu-
aoce; now, i think i can raise such doubts in
eentlemen's minds* and dare commit myself to
tneir candor for the consequences. Notwith-
standing gentlemen have expressed a uniform
desire to encourage manufactures, (and I have
been with them in accomplishing this obijectO
they now desert their principles. When it has
been contended that the duty ought to be low,
inasmuch as molasses is a raw material, it has
been replied, that the manufacture is pernicious.
It has been said, that promoting our own distil-
lation will exclude foreign rum, and conse-
quently affect the revenue; but does not the
same argument apply to every article of domes-
tic manufacture? Has it not all along been con-
tended, that itis proper in the General Govern-
ment to nurture those interests which have had
the particular regard of the individual States,
upon the principle that the State Legislatures
knew feelingly what were the best means to ad-
vance their interest? Has not the position been
folly established, that promoting the interests
of particular States increases the general wel-
fare? After this, can gentlemen tell us we
are advocating a local policy? That we are sa-
crificing the interest of 3,000,000 of people to
the establishment of a few New England dis-
tilleries? For my part, I ground my opinion
Qpon national principles; and from these I con-
clude, that molasses ought not to be taxed, or
taxed but very lightly.

The gentleman from Virginia fears the loss of
revenue from the success of' this manufacture.
To quiet his apprehensions, it will be only
necessary for me to remind him of what he
ingeniously urged a few days ago on this point,
in order to obtain a discnmination in favor of
the brandy of France. He told us, that, al-
though the State of Virginia had imposed no
duty on brandy, but a heavy one on West In-
dia rum, that under this encouragement there
were not more than 10,000 gallons of brandy
imported, while there were 600,000 gallons of
rum; inferring from this fact, that there was no
probable ground for suspecting the consumption
to change from the oue to the other article. If no*
danger is to be apprehended from brandy, much
lest can New England rum stand a competition
with Jamaica spint; the force of habit will not
be more easily overcome in this case than the
other. Besides, it is well known that a great
proportion of the people will not drink it at all;
It is a kind of genteel thing to affect disgust
and loathine at the very name, much Iqss will
they suffer the despised liquor to pollute their
mouths. So far are we from having ground to
dread the effect of a competition on this side,
that the contrary may be justly apprehended.
The custom and fashion of the times countenance
the consumption of West India rum. I consider
it good policy to avail ourselves of this means
to procure a revenue^ but I treat as idle the vi-
sionary notion of reforming the morals of the

people by a duty on molasses. We are not to
consider ourselves, while here, as at church or
school, to listen to the harangues of speculative
piety; we are to talk of the political interests
committed to our charge. W hen wc take up
the subject of morality, let our system look to-
wards that f»bject, and not confound itself with
revenue and protection of manufactures. If
gentlemen conceive that a law will direct the
taste of the people from spirituous to malt li-
quors, they must have more romantic notions of
legislative influence than experience justifies.

When it was asked, what is the occasion of a
high duty? It was answered, that it is neces-
sary in order to pome at the proper tax on rum;
but I insist, that there is no such necessity
while an excise is within our reach, and it is in
this mode only that you can obtain any consid-
erable revenue. The gentleman from Virginia
has said, that the manufacture of country rum
is in no kind of danger of destruction from the
duty on molasses. He has stated to the House
the quantity made before the revolution, and
goes on to argue, that as West India rum paid
no duty, and molasses paid some, if the manu-
facture thrived under these disadvantages, why
should it not continue to support itself in fu-
ture? I believe tliis matter easy to be account-
ed for, though I fear it will not.be in my power
to make a proselyte on the occasion. I should be
vain of such success, and therefore I shall pro-
ceed. There were many very considerable mar-
kets for New England rum cut off entirelv by
the revolution; even those that remain we have
to encounter with rivals, who successfully con-
tend for a preference. Previous to the late
war, we had a market in Nova Scotia, New-
foundland, and Canada, all the Southern colo-
nies, Europe, and Africa. We are now ob-
structed from going to many of those, to Quebec,
and Newfoundland; and our trade gains no
ground in others to make up the difference.
Consider the state of the fisheries. At that time
we possessed them unrivalled; it was the policy
of Britain to favor our efforts; believing that
our success tended to increase her maritime
strength, she dealt out to us an annual bounty
equal to JS20,000 sterling, for the fish we took.
All her ports were open to us; we could carry
it to what market we pleased, and obtain mo-
lasses at a low price for the distilleries. But
the present state of the business bears no com-
parison with its former situation; the trade is
confined to a less channel, in which, instead of
bounties, we meet with restrictions. Our fish
pay a duty of twelve dollars a quintal, which is
given by Government as a premium in favor of
their own fisheries. This imposition amounts
to more than the value of the«article; yet, even
under all these discouragements, there are but
six ports in the West Indies that we can go to^
St. Lucia« three in Hispaniola, one in Guada-
loupe, and one in Martinico. This being the
case, the duties are rigidly exacted of us, and
we have no oilier means of vending it but by
the exchange of molasses. Nor is this the end

233

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

234

H. OF R.]

Dutu9 on Imports,

[April 38, 1789.

of the evil; I fear it is seriously to be appre-
hended that we may shortly be deprived of this
market also. The merchants of L'Orient have
represented to the King, that it would be for
the interest of their colonies to distil the mo-
lasses in the islands. Upon the strength of this
idea, distil -houses are erected there, and bid
fair to rival us in the business of supplying not
only Europe and Africa, but even our own
country. Now, from this view of the ground
on which we stand, will gentlemen say. we
can maintain and defend ourselves as well as
we did before the war? If we even had the same
advantages in vending the rum, the business
would not be equally profitable, as the price of
molasses has increased, and our fish has fallen.
In short, unless some extraordinary measures
are taken to support our fisheries, 1 do not see
what is to prevent their inevitable ruin. It is a
fact, that near one-third of our fishermen are
taken from their profession — not for want of
skill and abilities in the art, for here they take
the rank of every nation on earth— but from the
local, chilling policy of foreign nations, who
shut us out from the avenues to our market If,
instead of protection from the Government, we
extend to them oppression, I shudder for the
consequences. But I will not enlarge on this
head, trusting that gentlemen are convinced of
the importance of the interest, and do not mean
to destroy it

Mr. Speaker, we are not to consider molas-
ses in the same light as if it was in the form of
rum. We are not to tax a necessary of life in
the same manner as we do a pernicious luxury.
I am sensible an attempt to draw a critical line
of distinction in this case, between what is ne-
cessary and what is a luxury, will be attended
with some difficulty; but I conceive the distinc-
tion sufficient for our present purpose, if it
prove molasses to be necessary for the sub-
sistence of the people. No decent family can
do without something by way of sweetening;
whether this arises from custom, or necessity of
nature* is not worth the inquiry; if it is admit-
ted to be a requisite for the support of life, a
tax on it will be the same as a tax on bread; it
is repugnant to the first principles of policy to
lay taxes of this nature in America. What is
it that entitles the United States to take rank
of all the nations of Europe, but because it is
the best country for the poor to live in? If we
eo on taxing such articles as salt and molasses,
tnese advantages will not long continue to be
ours. It may be said, that sugar is also a ne-
cessary of lire — true; but molasses, inasmuch
as it is cheaper, can be more easily obtained,
and enters more in^) the consumption, at least
of the poor. They apply it to various uses; it is
a substitute for malt, in making beer; and shall
it be said that the General- Government de-
scends to small beer for its revenue, while
strong beer remains duty free? Why shall this
difference be made between the common drink
of one part of the continent and the other,
unless it be with a view to drive the people

to drinking simple water? The gentleman
from Virginia contends, that the consumers of
eight pounds of su^ar pay more than those who
use eight pounds ot molasses; this may be true,
but from the variety of ways in which molasses
is used, eight pounds is sooner consumed than
six or four pounds of sugar, which makes up the
difference. But do gentlemen mean that the
poorest and weakest part of the community
shall pay as much for what they use as the rich-
er classes? Is this the reward of their toil and
industry?

It has been stated as a fact by my colleague*
(Mr. Goodhue,) that Massachusetts will pajr
more by the impost on molasses than Pennsyl-
vania will on both rum and sugar. The popu-
lation and strength of these two States are
nearly equal; then why should this dispropor-
tion be contended for? Is it supposed that
Massachusetts will not contribute her propor-
tion on other articles? This, on examination,
will be found not to be the case. Gentlemen
say the State that exports least, imports least;
but, does it not follow, that this State pays ac-
cording to her ability to pay? If the products
of Massachusetts are neither so rich or valua**
bte as those of the Southern States, ought she
to pay the impost in the same proportion?

The question is plainly reducible to this: shall
we tax a necessary of life in the same propor-
tion as a luxury? Gentlemen will not contend
for either the justice or policy of such a mea-
sure; but they say the necessity of the case ob-
liges them; they cannot come at the luxury but
through the raw material. They sav they can-
not lay an excise. I ask why not? People may
justly think it burthensome to raise all our sup-
plies from impost. Much can be obtained from
this source, to be sure, by touching every thing;
but I would recommend touching such things
as are essential to subsistence lightly, and bring
in the excise as a means of obtaining the defi-
ciency; it will be the more certain way of mak-
ing counti'jf rum contribute its proportion. I
am not aeainst a duty in this shape; but if the
hand of Government is stretched out to oppress
the various interests I have enumerated, by an
uneq^ual and oppressive tax on the necessaries
of lite., I fear we shall destroy the fond hopes
entertained by our constituents* that this Go-
vernment would ensure their rights, extend
their commerce, and protect their manufac-
tures. Mothers will tell their children, when
they solicit their daily and accustomed nutri-
ment, that the new laws forbid them the use of
it, and they will grow up in a detestation of the
hand which proscribes tneir innocent food and
the occupation of their fathers; the language of
complaint will circulate universally, and change
the favorable opinion now entertained to dislike
and clamor.

The House will not suppose we are actuated
bjr local interests in opposing a measure big
with such daneerous consequences to the exist-
ence of the Union. They will admit we have
reason for persisting in our opposition to a high

235

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS-

236

ilnuLSa, 1789.]

Duiiea on Imports,

[H. ofR.

dutjT, and may be inclined to join us in reduc-
iog it either to five per cent or at most to one
cent per gallon. It the apprehensions we have
expresaedf shall be realized, lei it rest upon the
advocates of the present measure; we have done
mr duty, and it only remains tor us to submit
to that ruin in which the whole may be in-
volved.

Mr. Wadsworth wished to show from facts,
that fisheries and distilleries were better able to
support themselves before the revolution, than
they would be under the present arrangements.
This appeared ftom a retrospective view of the
trade} the duties paid in the Dutch islands did
not amount to more than five or eight stivers the
qaintal on fish, now they were from twenty to
twenty-five. The port charges were one-half
less than they are at this time; payments were
then made in the most advantageous manner,
now we are limited, and spirits is all we can
get in exchange; they then took fish of an in-
terior quality, now we carry to Surinam the
best kind. These facts will show gentlemen
tfiat the business of the fisheries and distille-
ries labors under considerable embarrassments.
Another great source of profit was found in the
African trade; the American vessels had then
the liberty of engaging in the slave trade, new
they are prohibited, lie did not make these
obsenrattons to prevent a proper duty from be*
ing obtained from cuuntrv rum; he wished it
and every kind of distilled spirit to contribute
to the public exigencies; but he thought molas-
ses ought not to be taxed in the same proportion;
ao excise would obtain revenue on principles of
jostice, and therefore was to be preferred to the
present measure.

Mr. Sylvkster.-^I believe the discussion
has been so full on this, as well as on former oc-
casions, that there will not be much advantage
in extending it, especially as gentlemen differ
M widely in opinion. I would, therefore, hope
that the question will be taken, and the duty fixed
by way of compromise; if it is either too low or
too high, it may no doubt have some of the in-
conveniences mentioned, to avoid which it will
perhaps be better to take a middle course.

Mr. Madison. — The gentleman from Massa-
chosettB (Mr. Ames) has endeavored to prove
that DO advantage the General Government can
pre to New England rum will bring it into use;
he proves this by the observations i made the
other day relative to the effect produced in Vir-
ginia, where French brandy is imported in cer-
tain vessels free of duty. I shall add nothing
more on this point, than stating what is well
kuowD to be the case. In Virginia, the habits
of the people are so strong in favor of rum, both
foreign and domestic, that it requires the great-
est exertion to change them; they consume vast
quantities of this article. If we lay the duty
low, the more of it will come within their pow-
er, and the transition from one kind of rum to
another is more easy.

It was asked, if the business of distillation
was able to support itself under the discourage-

mcnt of Gk>vernment, why would it not do as
well when it received encouragement? To this
it was replied, that some of the channels of
the trade are dried up, and some obstacles now
occur in procuring the raw material. But is not
the population of the United States increased?
Ana is not the home market daily extending
by natural means? What then is to be expect-
ed from the encouragement eiven but an en-
larged demand? But after all the embarrass-
ments which the gentleman from Massachusetts
has detailed, it does not appear that the num-
ber of distilleries are lessened; nor did we hear
any thing in reply to the observation I made re-
specting the use of this article in the fisheries.
Can they suffer more under the policy of the
United States than they are subjected to by the
State of Massachusetts? The hardships which
our regulations expose them to are not greater
than those of every other part of the continent.
Another argument was used to show, that the
State of Massachusetts did not contribute in
proportion to other States. It was stated, that
where the produce was small, the exportis and
imports were in the same proportion. Compare
ihf imports of Massachusetts with those of Vir-
ginia, and you will find they do not exceed
one-third of what the latter amounts to; then,
of consequence, undcrasjrstem of impost, they
do not pay in proportion either to their popula-
tion or representation. The Southern States
import many articles which the Eastern States
do not; many things which are necessar^r to the
poor, and why may we not, with equal justice,
color our reasoning with .a description of our
sufferings? May not public exclamations be ex-
cited, and the children, (or want of clothes, be
taught to breathe a vindictive spirit? But let
me ask gentlemen, why these apprehensions for
one part of the Union more than the other? Are
the Northern people made of finer clay? Do
thev respire a clearer air? Do their breasts burn
witli a more generous ardor for their riehts as
men, or for theircountry'shappinessanuglorv?
Are they the chosen few? Are all others to be
oppressed with accumulated burthens, and they
to take their course easy and unrestrained?
No; I trust the General Government will equal-
ly affect all; it was instituted for the protection
of all, and it is expected it will accomplish the
end for which it was established. But this can
only be done by acts of justice and impartiali-
ty, and on this ground 1 leave the decision to the
House.

Mr. FiTzsiMONS. — I beg leave to trouble the
committee with an observation or two before
the question is decided. It has been said by
the gentlemen from Massachusetts, that there
are 3,000,000 gallons of molasses imported into
that State; if so, there is at least 1,000,000 gal-
lons of rum exported, and certainly the gentle-
men do not contend that they pay the duty on
the rum consumed abroad. Tne price of mo-
lasses is about twenty-ninetieths of a dollar, the
duty is about five, and the expense of the dis-
tillation may be six more, m all thirty-one

287

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

238

H. OF R.]

Duties on Imporia,

April 28, 1789.

ninetieths, or two shillings and seven pence.
Other ram usually costs about three shinines.
or three shillings and six penee^ to which auci
one shilHng duty, it will bring it, to the con-
sumer, to near four shillings and six pence. A
gallon of New Ensland rum can be afforded tor
almost one-half ofthe price of West India, and
will gentlemen tell us, that this regulation will
destroy their distilleries and fisheries? But it
will aifect the manufacture in other States as
well as Massachusetts. The business is car-
ried on to a considerable extent both in New
York and Philadelphia, and it is my opinion
the duty could be well collected, at least at the
latter. Nor are the poor inhabitants of Mas-
sachusetts to be taxed otherwise than all others;
in Pennsylvania, considerable quantities of mo-
lasses are used| though perhaps not quite as
much as to the northward, so that the objection
of inequality does not lie to such an extent as
has been mentioned.

Gentlemen say molasses is a necessary of
life, and infer from thence that it ou^ht not to
be taxed. If we are not to lay the impost on
articles in common use, I fear we shall obtain
but little revenue. It is said the fisheries will
be ruined, because each fisherman consumes
twelve gallons annually. Suppose there are
eight men to each of the 480 vessels employed
in this business, who use molasses at this rate,
what will the whole amount to? $2,800! And
are gentlemen serious when they assert this
will ruin our commerce and navigation? It is
a tax of not quite three-quarters of a dollar per
man. Is it to be ima^ned any one's proportion
can be less, and provide for the wants of Go-
vernment.

Mr. Goodhue. — It has been mentioned, Mr.
Speaker, that Massachusetts does not import
one-tl'iird part of the amount which Virginia
does. Bat the gentleman did not offer to prove
this, so that I take it to be a mere matter of
opinion; for my part, I think she imports equal-
ly as much. It was said that two gallons of
country rum will cost no more than one of
West India. A gallon of molasses is worth a

?uarter of a dollar before it is distilled; West
ndia rum about two pistareens; molasses was
purchased for much less before the war, while
the fish and lumber we gave in exchange is fall-
en, so that the trade is hardly worth carrying on.
J take it, Mr. Speaker, that we are in an
error. They who contend for a high duty have-
nothing but taxing rum in view, and we want
them to consider it as a necessaij of life. Cer-
tainly the two objects have no kind of connex-
ion. If we lay a moderate duty on the fish,
and an excise upon the latter, we shall both
haveour desires accomplished. We ou^ht to
use a considerable share of circumspection in
this business, and not give any just cause of
uneasiness, especial Iv at the commencement of
the Gkivernment. Though I do not pretend to
say that Massachusetts will not be as quiescent
and obedient to our laws as any State in the
Union, yet the people will consider a high duty

on molasses as injurious to their interests in the
fisheries and navigation, and contrary to wis-
dom and those piinciples of justice and policy,^
which they expect govern the present Legisla-
ture. We ought to draw oar lesson from expe-
rience. You nave heard that Great Brttain^
with all her power, was unable to obtain a duty
of three pence a gallon; learn wisdom from her;
she reduced it to one penny, and succeeded in
the collection. The nefiance of her laws wa»
in consequence of the measure running counter
to the sentiments of the people.

Mr. Ames said, he should be sorry if he ha J
made use of any language to injure any gentle-
man's feelings. He did not mean to inter that
the people of Massachusetts possessed any ex-
cellence over their Southern brethren ^far fron»
it He was satisfied that their hearts beat witb
equal warmth, and their minds contemplated
with equal precision; he believed tliat the most
cordial regard subsisted on the part of the citi-
zens of Massachusetts toward their fellow-citi*
zens in other States; he therefore hoped that
nothing local would be attributed to him on th&
occasion.

Was the language of gentlemen to be, let u»
lay a poll-tax of three-fourths of a dollar on the
fishermen, I ask, would the House sit quiet
even to hear the proposition? It is not because
a tax is light that it is proper. It is supposed
that the fishermen must be poor if they are
not able to pay this. I contend they are very
poor, they are in a sinking state, thev cany on
their business in despair; but gentlemen will
ask us, why then do they not quit the profes-
sion? 1 answer, in the wordb that are often used
in the Eastern country respecting the inhabi-
tants of Cape Cod, they are too poor to live
there, and tney are too poor to remove. Witb
respect to our distilleries, the gentleman as-
sumes as a fact that they have not declined; but
the contrary is true — there is not more than
three-fourths of the business done now that
used to be, beside the quantity is not only les*
sened, but the profit on what is sold is also less.
Those nations that used to supply us with the
raw material are becoming our rivals; even our
home market is not secured to us.

Gentlemen who contend for the encouragement
of agriculture, should recollect that nature has
denied us fertility, but she has placed along our
shores an inexhaustible store. To labor on our
land seems to be exerting ourselves against na-
ture; our industry is therefore directed to a
more productive business, and ought not this to
be entitled to equal encouragement with any
other. A tax upon molasses has been sufficient-
ly demonstrated to be a tax upon the fisheries^
and will gentlemen continue this burthen upon
Massachusetts alone^ when she pays her full
iroportion on all other articles, according to
icr abilities to consume them ? Oppression wil I
ead to smuggling, and when once a system of
this kind is tormed, the persons eneaged in it
will not stop at molasses alone, they will in-
clude every other article in an illicit trade, so

2S9

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

240

AnuL29, 1789.]

Duties on Imports,

[H. OF R.

that it is imi^sible to know the extent of the
evil, or provide a remedy. If these facts and
ar|[ameats are sufficient to produce doubts in
gentlemen^s minds, they will hesitate in con-
curring; with the committee in this article of the
report; for, in cases of uncertainty, I take it to
be the wisest way not to proceed in a dubious
track.

Mr. Gerry. — After what I said yesterday on
this SQl)]ect, it cannot be necessary for me to
^ again folly into the argument^ what I then
advanced has been answered in few cases. I
inentioned the difficulties to which a merchant
would be subjected who would have to advance
die duties; he must sell to a ioss, or have a large
capital for the pui^ose; no argument has t>een
urged to show an impropriety in this reasoning.
A cargo and outfits of a vessel worth J81OOO,
lawfiil money, would bring in return ^2.000 gal-
lons oT molasses; this, as 1 said yesteraay^ will
pay £396, a duty of near forty per cent upon
the cargo. It was also mentioned, that a large
<]uaBtit3r of the article was used by the poor of
the seaports^ a high duty must necessarily raise
the prici5 or lessen the consumption, in which
case it will be an additional discouragement to
the trade* if the price is raised, the distiller
must likewise increase his capital er manufac-
ture less; if so, the demand is again decreased.
If it is necessary to destroy the manufacture
on account of the injurjr it does to the morals
of the people, the proprietors ought to be in-
demnified. But if rum is still to be used among
us, let us give a preference to our own manu-
facture. By discouraging the molasses trade»
you lessen the demand for fish, which are ex-
ported to l>e exchanged for that article.

It has been said, that a fisherman uses but
twelve gallons. I include his family, and make
it thirty; for this he has to pay two dollars an-
onally« Is not this a burthenr Gentlemen must
own it is.

The gentleman from Virginia refers us to a
period before the revolution, when the manu-
facture supported itself under a duty. The
kingdom or Great Britain was at that time in
the zenith of her power; she had her board of
commerce, her vessels of war, and bodies of
troops to support tlie measure; she sent over an
army before hhe ^ve it up: at last she was com-
pelled to peduce it. But uo gentlemen mean to
engage Congress to support its measures in this
way. The Parliament had an object to contend
for; thejrdid not like their New England colonies
to inteifere with the business of their Westlndia
islandi^ they wished totally to destroy our dis-
tilleries, but could not succeed. This Govern-
ment has no object of this kind; then shall we
give chagrin to those people of whom we exact
support? Are we not putting to hazard the af-
fections of the numerous citizens concerned in
this bttsinesa, who have been the warm advo-
cates of the Constitution from an expectation
<if benefit to their particular interests? And this
lor the sake of a measure that must defeat it-
iselL The d:ity will exceol the risk of smug-

tling; the latter, perhaps, not being more than
ve percent., the former forty per cent., on the
value of the article.

if, therefore, we lay an excise upon the rum,
and a small duty on molasses, we shall prevent
the necessity of a ^clandestine trade, obtain a
greater revenue, and avoid those injuries which
are so justly apprehended to extend to our fish-
eries and navigation.

Mr. Jackson. — I have attended through the
whole of this debate, but have been unable to
discover any new light reflected on the sul^ect.
I do not mean to trespass upon the patience of
the committee but for a moment. The gentle-
men from Massachusetts tell us that fish is an
article of their trade, and they sell it for molas-
ses; but if a duty is imposed upon molasses, the
business is ruined. Let me ask them, are there
not other articles of trade of great moment to
the southward? What is to become of the lum-
ber of Georgia? We are obliged to take rum
in the West indies in exchange for our lumber,
upon which we pay fifteen cents a gallon duty.
The gentlemen are not for reducing this; so I
hope they will admit their arguments on this
point to be obviated.

One gentleman has thrown out a remark re-
specting the slaves in the Southern States. I
know the suhject is not before the House; but I
beg just to observe, tliat however slaversr may
be condemned in the Eastern States, it is im-
practicable to cultivate the Southern countiy
without their assistance.

The question on striking out six cents was
determined in the negative.

Mr. FrrzsmoNS revived his motion which
was lost in the committee, that a drawback of
three cents per eallon be allowed on all rum
distilled in the United States^ and which shall
be exported without the limits thereof. This
was agreed to.

On motion of Mr. Madison, the clauses of
the report respecting the duty to he laid on ton-
nage, was postponed. And then the House ap-
pointed a committee to bring in a bill or bills,
pursuant to the report as adopted.

Wednesday, April 39.

The petitions of the citizens of New Jersey,
i/vhose names are thereunto subscribed, com-
plaining of the'illegality of the election of Rep-
resentatives to Congress for that State, as re-
ferred to in Mr. Ogden's letter of yesterday,
were read: Whereupon,

Orderedt That the said petitions be referred
to the committee of elections, and that it be an
instruction to the said committee^ to report a pro-
per mode of investigation and decision thereupon.

The House proceeded to consider the report
from the committee of elections, (which lay on
the table) on the petition of David Ramsay of
the State of South Carolina, suggesting that
William Smith, returned a raemDer ot* this
House as elected within that State, was, at the

241

GALES ife SEATON'S HISTORY

242

H. ofR.]

PrendrnVs Speech,

May 4, 1789.

time of his election, ineligible; and the said re-
port being amended to read as followeth:

That in this case it will be sufficient in the first
instance, that a committee take such proofs as can
be obtained in this city respecting* the facts stated in
the petition, and report the same to the House —
'I*hat Mr. Smith be permitted to be present from
time to time when such proofs are taken, to ex-
amina the witnesses, and to oifer counter proofs,
which shall also be received by the committee, and
reported to the House — That if the proofs so to be
reported shall be declared by the House insufficjent
to verify the material facts stated in the petition, or
such other facts as the House shall deem proper to
be inquired into,, it will then be necessary for the
House to direct a further inquiry, and especially the
procuring whatever additional testimony may be
supposed to be in South Carolina, as the case may
require — That all questions arising on the proofs be
decided by the House without any previous opinion
thereon reported by a committee.

Besohed, That this House dotli agree to the said
report, and that it be an instruction to tlie commit-
tee of elections to proceed accordingly.
On motion.

Ordered, That a committee be appointed to
prepare and report an estimate of the supplies
requisite for tne present year, and of the net
produce of the impost as agreed toby the House,
and that Me^rs. Gerry, Smtth, (ot* Maryland)
and Parker, be of the said committee.

The House proceeded to consider the follow-
ing resolution of the Senate, to wit:

*« In Senate, April 27.

**Iteaoloed^ l*hat after the oath shall have been
•< administered to the President, he^ attended by the
*< Vice-President, and the members of the Senate
<* and House of Representatives proceed to St.
•< Paul's Chapel to hear divine service, to be per-
** formed by the Chaplains to Congress already ap-
•* pointed:'' Whereupon,

HtBohedf. That this House doth concur with the
Senate in the said resolution; amended to read as
folio weth» to wit:

« That after the oath shall have been administered
•* to the President, the Vice-President and mem-
« hers of the Senate, the Speaker and members of
** the House of Representatives, will accompany him
** to St. Paul's Chapel to hear divine service per-
** formed by the Chaplains of Congress.

Ordered^ That the Clerk of this House do
carry the said resolution to the Senate, and de-
' sire their concurrence. — Adjourned.

Thursday, April 30.

Jonathan Grout, from Massachusetts, ap-
peared and took his seat.

This being the day on which the President of
the United States was inaugurated no other
business, of course, was attended to. The
President's address to both Houses appears in
the proceedings of the Senate, page 27.

Friday, May 1.
The Speaker laid before the House a copy
«r the speech of the President of the United

States, to l>oth Houses of Congress, deliyereil
yesterdaj^ in the Senate chamber, immediately
after his inauguration, which being read,
On motion,

Besoked, That the said speech be committed to a.
Committee of the whole House.

The House accordingly resolved itself into
a Committee of the whole, Mr. Page in the
chair. And after adopting the following reso-
lution, the committee rose, and reported it to
the House, which agreed to it.

lUaehed^ That it is the opinion of this committee,
that an address to the President ought to be prepar*
ed, expressing the congratulations of the House of
Representatives, on the distinguished proof given
him of the affection and confidence of his fellow^
citizens, by the unanimous suffrage which has ap-
pointed him to the high station which he fills; the
approbation felt by the House of the patriotic sen-
timents and enlightened policy recommended by his.
speech; and assuring him of their disposition to con-
cur in giving effect to every measure which may
tend to secure the libeKies, promote the harmony,
and advance the happiness and prosperity of their
countr}'.

Ordered^ That a committee to consist of five
members be appointed to prepare an addres»
pursuant to the said resolution. The mem-
bers elected Messrs. Madison, Clymer, Sher-
man, Gale, and Bbnson.

A motion was made that the House do come
to the following resolution:

Resolvedy That per annum, be the com-
pensation to be allowed to the President of the
United States^ during the term for which he is to be
elected.

The said resolution being read, was commit-
ted to a Committee of the whole House.

The House then proceeded by ballot to the
appointment of a Chaplain to Con^*ess on the
part of this House. Upon examining the t>al-
lots, it appeared that the Rev. William Linn
was elected.

Samuel Li verm orb, from New Hampshire,
appeared and took his seat.

Monday, May 4.

Mr. Smh'h presented a petition from the
shipwrights of the town of Baltimore, praying
the attention of Congress to the increase «ii"
American shipping and tonnage, and the pas-
sage of a suitable navigation act for its encou-
ragement. Referred to the Committee of the
whole on the state of the Union,

Four other petitions were presented. .

A petition of Alexander Lewis, of the State
of Pennsylvania, was presented to the House,
and read, setting forth that he hath discovered
and constructed an easy and expeditious meth-
od of impelling boats of twenty-five tons burden
and under, through the water, against any cur-
rent or stream however rapid; as also an easy
method of raising a sufficient quantity c»f water

248

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

244

Mat 4, 1789. ]

Duties on Tonnage.

[H. OF R.

tweotf feet in height to turn any mill; and
praTiDg that an act may pass to secure to him,
his heirs, &c. for the term of twenty -one years,
an exclusive right of constructing boats upon
his mode), in the United States.

Also a petition of Andrew Newell and Seth
Clark, of the State of Massachusetts, praying
tbftt the Droper officer may be authorized to re-
ceive and examine their accounts as assistant-
commissaries of issues, the lapse of time limit-
ed for that purpose by the late Congress not-
withstanding.

Also a petition of Sarah Parker, of the State
of Massachusetts, praying that some relief may
be ^nted for the support of herself and a large
dmily of children, being the widow and or-
phans of Lieutenant Colonel Moses Parker,
» ho was wounded and made prisoner by the
British troops in the battle of Charlestown, on
the 17th of June, 1775, and was afterwards
confined in the gaol of Boston, and there died
of his wounds in the month of July following.

Also a petition of Martha Walker, of Boston,
in the State of Massachusetts, praying that
some relief wmv be granted her, as the distress-
ed widow of Thomas Walker, Esq. late of Bos-
ton, who, at the commencement of the late
revolution, abandoned a very considerable pro-
perty in the province of Quebec, and attached
himself to the interests and fortunes of the
United States.

Orderedn That the said petitions do several-
ly lie on the table.

DUTIES ON TONNAGE.

On motion of Mr. Goodhue, the House re-
named the consideration of the report of the
Committee of the whole on the state of the
Union.

The clauses relative to the tonnage of ves-
sels, discriminating between foreign nations in
alliance and not in alliance with the United
States, being under consideration,

Mr. Lawrence moved to strike out the dis-
crimination, conceiving that, in the present
ntuation of our country, we ought to be cau-
tious not to express satisfaction or dissatisfac-
tion with respect to the conduct of foreigners;
so far as is prudent and right, we ought to pre-
serve an exact neutrality, ana act according as
circumstances exist. It will be necessary, said
he, to consider this subject in two points of
new; first, as it. respects the necessity of our
employing foreigners; and, secondly, now far
a regulation that is intended to meet the con-
duct of those nations not in alliance with us is
proper on our part, and what effects will pi*o-
bablT flow from the discrimination in this par-
ticular. It was stated, when this subject was
under consideration before, that the United
States had not a sufficient quantity of tonnage
to transport its produce, ft was said, by the
{gentleman from Pennsylvania, that its aggre-
^te was but one-third of the tonnage employed
for this purpose, if so we are indebted to fo-
reigners for the other two-thirds.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs. — I think the gentleman has
misunderstood me. I believe I said, and the
fact is, that near two-thirds of the tonnage is
our own, and but one-third foreign.

Mr. Lawrence.— I understood him, as I
stated it, that two-thirds belonged to foreign-
ers; however, the greater part of this foreign
tonnage is owned in Great Britain. Being in-
debted to foreigners for their vessels, I asK, is
it proper to give a bounty to some of them, es-
pecially as it operates as a duty* upon the arti-
cles exported? Why make the discrimination?
It is said we should enable those nations,
with whom we have commercial treaties, to
participate more largely of our trade; but at
present they do not supply us with ships for
the purpose of carrying it on. If we cannot
get vessels from these favored nations, we must
have them from others, or, the alternative is,
we must keep our produce to perish in our
hands. If the vessels are indispensably neces-
sary, the very circumstance of our wanting
them will oblige us to give the freight that is
asked. Is it reasonable, when we are under
the necessity of having vessels, and are from
our circumstances obliged to give foreigners
what freight they ask, to expect our own cili-
zens to let theirs for less than what is paid to
foreigners? Then the enhanced price of freight
will be laid on all whether foreign or domestic.
If I am right in these considerations, let me ask
gentlemen, will the produce of the country
bear burthens of this nature? Every gentle-
man will determine for himself. The gentle-
men from South Carolina and Virginia will de-
termine whether their valuable and important
staples, whether even their rice and tobacco,
which have no rival in the European markets,
will, or possibly can, bear such an excessive
burthen? Let the gentlemen from the Middle
States determine whether such is the flourish-
ing state of their agriculture, as to enable them
to pay a freight of this kind? If the articles to
be vended at foreign markets cannot, and (
trust gentlemen have already determined in
their own minds that they cannot bear the ex-
pense, this measure will produce the most mis-
chievous consequences. Mr. Speaker, it will
discourage agriculture itself; it will destroy the
soul of the nation, the ardent industry of the
people. If the products of your soil cannot be
sent to market they must lay and perish; the
planter and husbandman having no stimulus to
labor, the prospect must be languid, and a uni-
versal cessation of operative industry stretch
over all your land.

Let us now proceed to consider the subject
in the second point of view, as a regulation to
meet the conduct of those nations which have
not formed commercial treaties with us. We
have no treaty of commerce with either Spain,
Portugal, or Great Britain; yet these are na-
tions with whom the United States carry on a
very beneficial commerce, as lucrative and use-
ful to our interest as any we have with nations
in alliance with us. The proposed discriroina-

245

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

246

H. ofR.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[Mat 4, 1789.

tion does not apply particularly to one nation
more than to another, the expression is general,
as it respects all powers with whom the Unitea
States have or have not commercial treaties.
Now, is it to be supposed that they will remain
quiet under this. unfavorable discrimination? I
believe it is more natural to suppose that they
will meet you with similar regulations. Span-
ish and Portuguese vessels will pay the same
tuqnage as British; now, from them the East-
ern States have some ill to apprehend; consi-
derable quantities of fish are exported to the
tlominions of Portueal and Spam, will they
not lav a duty on the fish unfavorable to us,
and advantageous to some other Power con-
cerned in that business? This must operate to
reduce the profits on American fish-^and I be-
lieve it is well known to this House, the gen-
tlemen have« on a former occasion, fully stated
it to us, that the fisheries are incapable to bear
the smallest inci-ease of its burthens without
doing an essential injury to the trade. I need
not, therefore, amplifj^ on this head.

It is true, Great Britain has not hitherto en-
tered into a commercial treaty with the United
States. Perhaps it is not worth the inquiry
why this has not been done; but surely if we
mean to induce her to form one with us, it is
more likely to be brought about by moderation
than by a war of commercial regulations. It
is well known that that Power stands high in
the opinion of all nations; its character for
riches and power is justly great, its commercial
importance is well known to us. Hence we
have but little to expect by a commercial war-
fare, nor can it be necessary, when the object
we aim at can be obtained in a more eligible
manner. At leasts had we not better try the
effect of moderation? It is^ certainly the advice
of prudence to do so; if we find this mean to be
unsuccessful, we can certainly apply the other.
We always have it in our power, and after be-
ing disappciin ted in temperate measures, we can
urge the other more pmperly.

If we make them our friends it may be ad-
vantageous to us; if thoy become our enemies
in commeixe, it ma^ have a disagreeable and
inconvenient eflfVct. They can restrict us more
than we can them; the nation, by being long
established, is possessed of capital to bear the
loss of a suspension of trade; we are, as it were,
the creatures of yesterday, unable to stand'such
conipetitioni, even if we exert ourselves to the
utmost. I said before, and repeat it now, that
we draw sreat advantages from our commerce
with England, which we run the risk of losing
without an object worthy the sacrifice. We are
admitted into their ports on terms more favor-
able than any other nation: articles brought
from America do not pay tne duty, to which
the like are subject from other parts of the globe,
which is a source of considerable benefit to our
commerce. If my information is right, our
vessels are admitted into their ports in the East
Indies. This trade is likely to become of the
grratest importance to the Lnited States, We

not only have vessels that answer for this brancli
of commerce, but furnish considerable produce
for carrying it on. I am told that there are nut
less than fortv-seven vessels, at this time, on
voyages to tne countries beyond the Cape of
Good Hope. This trade lOAy be materially af-
fected by the policy of the British nation, which
has an amazing influence in that quarter of the
world. I trust, no friend to the navigation of
America will pursue measures destructive to
this trade; it is the only one to compensate ug
for the loss of the West India trade, and yet
the regulations of Britain may essentially in-
jure us in that quarter. Upon the whole, I
would recommend temper and moderation to
the House; if they find these will not, or are
not sufficient to produce the effect they con-
template, then take the mode now proposed; it
can then be done with more propriety than at
present. These are the hastjr thoughts which
have occurred to my mind a^inst the measure;
and I beg gentlemen to believe, that I am ac-
tuated only by the purest motives for my coun-
try's good, in opposing what I consider as pre-
judicial to her interest. I wish my country to
do those actions which I am certain will renect
honor upon her councils, and bring to her sons
that happiness which we are bound by duty to
labor for. I would not have her, at her en-
trance into life, show an intemperate disposi-
tion, or do any thing which sne might have
cause to repent of hereafter. •

Mr. Madison. — I conceive, Mr. Speaker,
that we must consider this as a general ques-
tion, involving these points: How far it is ex-
pedient, at this time, to make a discrimination
between foreign nations and the United States,
for the purpose of promoting and accelerating^
the improvement of the American navigation?
And how far it is expedient to make such a dis-
crimination between foreigners, as may induce
them to permit us to extend our own naviga-
tion on principles of reciprocity? For limagine
these subjects will be found to be connected.
The areuments oifered against the measure are
founded on a maxim of impolicy. It is stated,
that as we have not vessels enough of our own
to transport the produce of our country, and as
this produce sells low, we ought not to enter
into regulations that will increase the price of
freight. The plain meaning of which I take to
be, let us employ those vessels that will do
our business cheapest, making no kind of dis-
crimination whatever. If this argument has
weight, it goes against discriminating in favor
of our own shipping. I admit, that laying fifty
cents on foreign vessels, and but six on our own,
is a regulation bv which the owners of Ameri-
can shipping will put a considerable part of the
dilference into their pockets. This^ sir, I con-
sider as a sacrifice ot interest to policy; the aa*
crifice is but small, but I should not contend
for it, if we did not stand in need of maritime
improvements. Were it not for the necessity
we are under of having some naval strength, 1
should be an advocate tor throwing wide open

247

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

248 ,

Mat 4, 1789.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[H. OF R.

the doors of oar commerce to all the world, and
making no kind of discrimination in favor of
our own citia^ens. But we have maritime dan-
cers to guard against, and we can be secured
fitMD them no other way than by having a navy
and §eanien of our own; these can onlf be ob-
tuned by giving a preference. I admit it is a
tax, ancf a tax upon our produce, but it is a tax
we must pay for the national security. I recon-
cile it to the interest of the United States that
diis sacrifice should be made; by it we shall be
able to provide the means of defence, and by
being prepared to repel danger, is the most like-
ly way to avoid it. This tax, therefore, may
prevent the horror of a war, and secure to us
that respect and attention which we merit.

1 am a friend to the navigation of America,
and shall always be as ready to go as great
lengths in favor of that interest, as any gentle-
man on this floor. I have it in contemplation to
propose a distant time to be fixed, at which
these high duties on tonnage shall besin to oper-
ate; by which means the interests of that part
of the community employing foreign shipping,
will be unaffected for the present, and the other
part will have time to increase its tonnage, so
as to answer for the transportation of the pro-
duce of all America.

With relation to the discrimination proposed
to be made between foreigners, I think nothing
new has been offered now. It has not been de-
nied, and therefore I take it to be tacitly ad-
mitted, that the public sentiments are friendly
to such a discrimination as is proposed. I do
not think it necessary, therefore, to relate par-
ticularly some facts, which would have shown
that almost all the States in the Union have
manifested their opinion on the subject, that a
discrimination ought to be made, and ought to
operate particularly on Great Britain. A
discrimination of this kind first appeared in
New Hampshire; the influence of its exam-
ple expancled the whole extent of the Union,
and State after State adopted regulations for
the salutary purpose of checking a power that
was monopolizing our trade; but finding, from
fatiguing experience, that their separate efforts
were ineffectual, they united in forming the
Government under which we deliberate. I
will not say only, that if, in the first act ofCon-
gress, we abolish this favorite distinction, we
disappoint the expectations of the warmest
friends and advocates of the Constitution, but
we shall also disappoint the expectations of its
enemies, and the people of fintain.

The policy manifested by that nation towards
us since the revolution must evince to every
thinking mind the necessity of extending our
commerce to other channels, and no longer suf*
fer her to regulate and limit us in this particu-
lar. The policy of her Parliament has been on
the watch to seize every advantage which our
weak and unguarded situation exposed; she has
bound us in commercial manacles, and very
'ly defeated the ot^ject of our independence.

We all know there was a time when Britain

showed a disposition to form the treaty we wish
for. This resulted from an apprehension that
the United States possessed both the power and
inclination to do themselves justice. The mo-
ment she discovered we had not the power to
perform our contracts, her disposition changed.
Now, for my part, I can discover no motive for
that nation to alter its conduct; if, now that we
have the power, we want the inclination. They
will persevere in their selfish interest, and nar-
row policy, to exclude us from a reciprocal
share of trade; they will continue the abi ity to
the Executive Magistrate to regulate the in-
tercourse by circumstances as they arise, but
ever studious to their own interest alone. The
gentleman from New York seems to apprehend,
that if we commence commercial hostilities, we
shall suffer 1^ reprisals. For my part, 1 am not""
afraid of suffering in the contest; her interests
can be wounded almost mortally, while ours are
invulnerable. She is sensible of this; and the
people of America are not unacquainted with
the natural advantages possessed over her: if it
were necessary, and means of a pacific nature
were not immediately successful, America could
defend herself. Suppose Great Britain not pleas-
ed with our regulation, but disposed to counter-
act and oppose us with other restrictions, and
we proceea to do each other all the injury which
commercial prohibitions can produce; which,
let me ask, of the parties, are most vulnerable?
How we could sustain our wounds I will not
say; those who know our country well, will
have but little uneasiness on that head. But,
though 1 do not say how we could sustain our
wounds, I can point out how we could inflict
most dead I V ones. If we were to sa^, that no
article should be exported from America to the
West Indies, but what went in our own bot-
toms, we should soon hear a different language
from any that has ever been held out to us on
the subject of commercial regulations. It may
be said, the British West Indies could draw
supplies from the mother country; but these
would be only precarious; there are always
times when they must be dependent upon us,
even for the necessary subsistence, to save them
from destruction.

Now, let me ask, what article is that we are
dependent upon Great Britain for, that is ne-
cessar]^ for our subsistence? If it be said there
are articles of convenience we must have from
her, I beg gentlemen to look round and observe^
that those materials for manufactures which she
supplies us with, and fabricates in the highest
perfection, are to be found in the United States,
and, within these fewyears^ we have made ra-
pid advances in manutacturin^ ourselves. This
must eventually lessen the imports from Bri-
tain, and her independent situation arises from
the flourishing condition of her manufactures
and commerce. I have, therefore, no fears of
entering^ into a commercial warfare with that
nation; if /ears are to be entertained, they lie
on the other side. I could go more largely into
this subject, and demonstrate clearly that we

249

GALES & BEATON'S HISTORY

250

H. OF R.]

Duties on Tonnage.

[Mat 4, 1789.

have infinite advantages over her. Even at this
.inoment we hear the ciy of distress from one

fm't of her dominions, which can onl)r be re-
ieved by the resources they have in this coun-
try. But I wilt not take up the time of the
committee longer on this subject, nor dilate
upon the nature and extent of the direct trade
carried on between foreigners and us, and the
circuitous one through Grreat Britain, from
which she derives great advantages; nor show
the comparative motives we have for making a
discrimination between her and other foreign
nations. Whale oil is prohibited in Britain; at
least subjected to a duty amounting to a prohi-
bition, but it is admitted into France. I need
not remark the value which we ought to set
upon this part of our commerce; fisheries are,
perliHps, the best nurseries for seamen of any
employment whatever. Rice is also an article
received by them, and enters considerably into
the consumption of the people; these articles
are making their way througli that country, and
will open a considerable vent for the surplus that
we have. In this point of view, it is important
not to take any steps that would check that
spirit which seems disposed to favor the com-
merce and interests of America. Tobacco is
also consumed in considerable quantities in
France; undoubtedly it is our interest that a
direct trade should be carried on with that
kingdom in this article. £i^hty or ninety thou-
sand hogsheads of this article have been ship-
ped to Great Britain, of which scarcely 15,000
are consumed there; the remainder is sent otf
to other countries; 20,000 hogsheads of this very
tobacco is consumed in France, it is not the
fault of our merchants that this supply does not
CO direct to that kingdom, as good policy would
dictate. I need not repeat the advantages to
be derived from a direct intercoui*sc with those
nations, whose inhabitants consume the staples
of our country. I conceive, where no special
reason to the contrary exists, we may consider
trade in its natural channel when the articles
are carried immediately to the consumer. Con-
sidering our trade in this point of view, a great
part of ours is exti-emely diverted from the
course it ought to pursue; but a small propor-
tion of it flows in any other than in that between
Great Britain and us; our policy, therefore, as
I stated oaa former occasion, ought to be cal-
culated to ^ive it that impulse which nature di-
rects. I wish that any general principle would
permit us to make a distinction between Spain
and Britain, but I do not know there is such a
general principle — there is none in the posses-
sion of this House to avail ourselves of. We
must consider Spain as a nation not having
formed a treaty of commerce with us. If they
are disposed to make such a treaty, they will
only be subiected for a short time to the incon-
venience which the proposed measure will in-
flict. Admitting that the duty on tonnage is
not very agreeable to every part of the Union,
yet their momentary inconvenience must give
way to considerations of greater importance. I

have no reason to suppose, that the sense of the
House will lead us to disagree to the measure.
I have made these remarks, not because I
thought they would influence the vote of any
gentleman, but because I thought it decent to
show the principles upon which our determina-
tion is founded. I trust there will be a majori-
ty, and a larg;e majority too, in favor of the
proposed discrimination; indeed, the question
stands predetermined; we have made a dis-
crimination on the article of spirits upon the
same principle; it would be a violation of pro-
priety, therefore, to suppose a contrary decision
in this case.

Mr. FiTzsiMONs. — I shall not speak as to the
policy of the measure; I mean to confine my-
self to stating a few facts, as I did when the
subject was before the committee of the whole
House. The gentleman from New York (Mr.
Lawrence) has said, that I stated the foreign
tonnage as two-thirds of the whole employed
by the Uuited States. It ispossible that i made
this mistake in my language, but the truth is,
that one-third only is foreign, and of this a very
considerable proportion is British. The state
of the tonnage in Massachusetts is nearljr all
American, in New York, 55,000 tons of the
same, and 30,000 foreign; nearly the same pro-
portion is employed at Philadelphia. Maryland
employs about three American to two foreign;
in Virginia and South Carolina, they are near-
ly equal; in Georgia, the difference is two-thiitls
foreign, and one* third American; so that, upon
the whole, there is little more than one-third
foreign. This statement very considerably les*
sens our dependence upon foreign nations from
what has been imaginecl by the gentleman who
has spoken in opposition; nor does it follow
that we shall pay the freight upon all our ex-
ports in proportion as we lay the duty. If we
take a view of the trade of the United States,
we shall discover that it will not necessarily be
the consequence.

What arc the articles Great Britain takes of
AmeiicaP A great proportion of the lumber
used in the West Indies, indeed I may say the
whole— a great proportion of the lumber usecl
within that kingdom. The West Indies can-
not draw her supplies elsewhere; if you were,
therefore, to lay a duty of fortv per cent, upon
the freight, the consumers in those islands must
pay it. The same observation holds good as it
respects our intercourse with Britain; the arti-
cles she takes from us cannot be supplied from
^ny other country. Experience has proved, that
ever^ one of these articles has been advanceil
in price in the proportion as it has been encum-
bered, and the nigii freight only serves as a pre-
text to increase the rate to the consumer. It is
not just, therefore, to say that the articles are
of less value in our country, for in instances of
this kind the burthen must fall upon those who
use them. It is not the case with the rice ot
South Carolina, nor with the tobacco of Vir-
ginia, nor never can be^ unless there is a com-
petition with other countries in the sale of these

251

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

252

Mat 4, 1789.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[H. OF R.

articles. Flax is a very necessary article in
one of their most important manufactures; the
«eedof this plant is sedulously sought fur in
America because it is superior to their own, or
because it is inconvenient to raise it ; but if they
find it necessarv, will they not be obliged to
pay the price when increased by a small ton-
nage duty?' Will gentlemen contend against
me, that the citizens of the United States do
not pa^ the taxes and duties laid by Britain on
the articles we consume? They certainly will
not do this. Why, then, do they contend that
we are to bear the duty of tonnage paid on ex-
portation? The advantages Great Britain de-
rives from our commerce, besides its absolute
necessity to her existence, are considerations
too important for her to sacrifice for a paltry
regulation of fifteen pence a ton upon her ship-
ping, and this is ail that the proposed discrimi-
nation sufcyects her to« You have heard it de-
clared, that the number of British vessels are
not lessened, although there is a duty of six
.shillings and eight pence per ton in some of the
States. Thej still find it their interest to pur-
sue our benehcial commerce. I admit that a
tax on tonnage increases the freight, but it is
equally certain that the tax, in almost every in-
stance, falls upon the consumer.

Our commerce with Spain and Portugal is
beneficial, and it mav be proper to consider
what effect<i our regulations are likely to pro-
duce, as they respect those powers: but with
England we risk nothing. As long as they find it
their interest to continue the American trade,
there is no fear of their discontinuing it, and
this will be the case as long as we consume her
manofactures, and give her in return our pro-
duce, which enables her to extend her com-
merce to other parts of the woHd.

Mr. Wadsworth. — I am opposed to all dis-
crimination between foreign nations, unless I
can discover some solid reason for the measure.
We enjoy eaual advantages, with respect to our
trade, from those nations that we are not in alli-
ance with, as from those to whom we are link-
ed bjT commercial treatv. Why. therefore, shall
we give a preference that may be odious, and
draw injurious restrictions upon our commerce?
It is to Great Britain that we are indebted for
a market for our lumber, our pot and pearl ash,
oar naval stores, rice, and tobacco; in short,
they take everf thing we have to dispose of but
oar fish and oil. But our fish finJs a better
market in countries with whom the United
States have no alliance, than in those of Pow-
ers in commercial treaty with us; the price is
better, and we are better paid. But gentlemen
are mistaken when they say that Britain cannot
draw her supplies from another quarter. We
have several competitors in her market for va-
rious articles^ and it is the preference they give
us in the duties and charges, that renders it un*
successful on the part of our opponents. It is
«aid that flaxseed cannot be obtained elsewhere;
yet gentlemen must recollect that very small
^opplies of this article were fumished by Ame

rica during the war. Britain drew the deficien-
cy from Holland. This proves that their de-

fendence is not exclusively upon us for flaxseed.
s it good policy to deprive ourselves of the ad-
vantages which we possess, without a probability
of acquiring greater? There is very little
prospect of success in a commercial struggle
with Britain, and I do not see any great bene-
fits that arise from the trade of our allies that
will warrant the sacrifice. It appears to me,
that, by making the discrimination now in con-
templation, we pajr a compliment that is of very
little consequence in the estimation of the nation
in whose favor it is intended. They employ a
very inconsiderable tonnage in the American
trade, and those few vessels are all that can re-
ceive a profit from the regulations. Besides, it
is admitted that the United States have not ves-
sels enough of their own for the transportation
of their produce; can it be good policy, then, to
destroy a competition among foreigners for the
remainder of our carrying trade?

If gentlemen will show me the advantages
arising from our commercial connexions where
we are bound by treaty, I will join them in a
measure which is likely to produce similar ef-
fects, on other nations; but, when I see no one
interest that will be promoted bv it, I feel dif-
fident lest we do a substantial injury to the
cause we attempt to support.

Mr. Clymer appealed to the public acts of
America for the sentiments of the people re-
specting a discrimination, from which it would
appear that Britain was looked upon in com-
merce as a hostile nation. But it was the wish of
all to increase the intercourse between France
and the United States. The little direct trade
carried on between that kingdom and America
is favorable to us; that to Great Britain the con-
trary. We receive money for what we carry
to France, with which our mercantile opera-
tion:^ are increased: we are not paid with rum,
as in our British West India trade. This is a
fact of notoriety; it has become a subject of
complaint in that country, that we take no re-
turns in manufactures from her, as we do from
a neighboring nation. These advantages, there-
fore, backed by the voice of the people, * war-
rant a preference of the nature of what is now
intended.

Mr. Paoe was sorry to trouble the House
upon this occasion after so much had been said,
and he would not have done it, if it had. not
been that he conceived it proper to notice some
remarks which had escaped the gentleman who
argued in opposition to the proposed measure.
It had been said, that America obtained greater
advantages from nations not in commercial alli-
ance with us, than from those that were. He
would leave this point to be settled by the gen-
tlemen who had heard the facts stated on both
sides, and turn to consider it in another point
of view. The committee, when they hail this
report under consideration, endeavored to adopt
a successful mode of raising a revenue. If a
duty on tonnage will have this effect, 'we ought

253

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

254

H. OF R.]

Dutita on Tonnage.

[May 4, 1789.

to agree to it; for to what other sufatject of reve-
nue can we go that will prove equally produc-
tive? It is therefore requisite that we lay this
kind of taiL; in so doing, if it is necessary to dis-
criminate between our own citizens and foreign-
ers, why is it not likewise proper to discriminate
between our commercial friends and commer-
cial enemies? If the policy is good in one case,
it is so in the other. We must not only encour-
age our friends to continue in alliance, but hold
out an advantage to those of whom we want a
reciprocity. It has always been the practice of
that very nation to discnminate who it is sus-
pected will take umbrage at our doing it. Has
not Britain laid heavy duties upon the wines of
France, and lower on those of Portugal, in or-
der to encourage the trade and commerce of
their ally. They have, by this means, made
France agree to receive their manufactures. It
is the practice of wise nations to adopt regula-
tions of this nature; and most undoubtedFy, if
any nation on earth has a right to expect a fa-
vorable regulation on our side, it is the one that,
I may say* has given us the power to deliberate.
I conceive such a regulation wise, just, and po-
litic; the contrary policy I view as pusillani-
mous, founded in folly, injustice, and impolicy.
For my part, I wish tor greater discrimination
than is now proposed. Instead of resting it
here. I should have consented to have §one
mucn further. I believe the price of freight
has not risen in Virginia, though the British ves-
sels are subjected to a tonnage duty of double
the amount of what is now proposed. Some-
thing of this nature might give the merchants
of America such maritime advantages, that our
commerce would shortly be placed on a re-
spectable footing. We mieht then expect a
beneficial treaty to be formed with Britain; and
it is ray opinion, that if a decisive discrimina-
tion was made, we should scarcely pass the act
before offers of that kind would be made.

Mr. Jackson. — I am in favor of a discrimina-
tion, but I like the idea thrown out by the gen-
tleman from Virginia, (Mr. Madison,) that the
high duty commence its operation at a distant
day; but I am not for a very great discrimina-
tion. Some gentlemen, who advocate this side
of the question, jiave contended that Great Bri-
tain is obliged to receive certain articles from
America; and, therefore, if we lay heavy du-
ties upon the transportation, they will fall upon
the consumer. Now I must beg leave to men-
tion a fact or two in point. In the State of
Georgia we have a pretty high tonnage duty,
but our produce falls in price. The rice, about
two or three years ago, sold for thirteen or four-
teen shillings; now it is difficult to procure nine
shillings per hundred weight. This proves that
these articles are not so necessary to the British
subjects as to induce them to give what we ask;
therefore the gentlemen's arguments go too far,
when they intend to prove that nation altogeth-
er depenaent upon us. The prices for the South-
em staples are generally lower than what they
were before the war; and I am very apprehen-

sive that a high tonnage will reduce them still
lower. The tonnage of the State of Georgia is
about 20,000 tons^ m this, two-thirds are Brit-
ish. If the duty is laid so high as to prevent
them from coming amongst us to transport our
produce, what is to become of our planters? It
IS said that this measure will raise us into con-
siderable maritime importance^ bv making a
favorable discrimination. I admit that this may
eventually take place, with prudent encourage-
ment; but if, before we have got shipping
enough of our own, we discard foreigners, we
must injure the husbandman; the profits of bis
labor must perish upon his hands, for want of
the means requisite to convey them to market.
If the tonnage duty is commenced at a dis-
tant day I shall favor the sum proposed; but
if it is immediately to take place, I should think
twenty or twenty-five cents a ton sufficient^
and even this ought not to take place before
December, 1790. Though I am a friend to dis-
crimination, yet I am opposed to a high duty^
until we have vessels enough of our own to an-
swer the purposes of domestic navigation and
foreign transportation.

Mr. Lawrence. — I do not think the regula-
tion in contemplation will embrace tlie object
gentlemen have in view. The discrimination
etween our own vessels and foreigner is in-
tended to increase the quantity of American
tonnage. The discrimination between foreign-
ers is also intended to increase the tonnage
of our allies. But will this proposed mea-
sure have such effect? I think, for my part^
that a preference of twenty cents per ton will
not draw vessels belonging to those nations
into this branch of commerce, so as to an-
swer the purpose of suppl]^ing the deficiency
in our means of transportation. If the prefer-
ence is so small as not to induce their vessels
to navigate for us, the means are not proportion-
ed to the end; but if the regulation is to induce
Great Britain to grant us reciprocity in com-
merce, and our trade is of 8uch nigh importance
to that nation, let us adopt measures more ef-
fectual than this small discrimination; let us
say, that they shall receive no supplies from us
but what are conveyed to them in our own bot-
toms. The gentleman from Pennsylvania, (Mr.
FiTzsiMONS,^ says, it is not true that the freight
will reduce tne price to the farmer. He sup-
poses the articles of tobacco and rice necessa-
ries, and whatever price they are held at must
be given for them, and then the whole expense
will fall upon the consumer. This proves too
much, and consequentlv proves nothing. Sup-
pose we lay twenty shillings per ton on vessels.
It must enter into the price ot tobacco and rice,
and the articles must still be purchaser! ; yet, if
the price is increased, the demand becomes
limited. A man does not consume so much
when the price of an article is high, as he does
when it is moderate; consequently, if the plant-
er was to get his usual protit on what was sold,
he would lose on all that remained on hand,
owing to the limitation of the demand. 'I'he

255

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

256

Mav 4, 1789. ]

Duties on Tannage, '

[H, ofR-

sameceascmiD^iiolds good with respect tu flax-
i»eed, lumber, and |>otash; at the same time' it
will be well to consider, whether the increase
oil the freight will not be such as to prevent our
lieoding them altogether.

'The oil at one time imported into France is
restricted at another. I am willing to enter into
^tipalations with that nation for the admission
4>r the article j but^ until sometiiiiig is done by
treaty on this head, there is no security in the
temporary regulations made by that or any other
nation. 1 would not be understood to be against
dLscrifninating between ourselves and foreign-
ers. Nix, sir, I admit the policy and propriety
of such a measure, but I contend we ought not
to discriminate between foreign nations. As for
the clfiim of gratitude which nas been urged, I
think it but ot small weight If we are bound,
i presQfRe it is bv treatx<, ^^^ whatever we are
so bound to do, 1 cheerfully concur in; but, if
we are free, it never can be deemed want of gra-
titude to decline doing what will be injurious
to our interests; it is what a nation has a right
to expect from another^ The gentlemen say
they are sorry to discriminate between Spain
and Portugal^ Uiey wish to favor these nations:
(he former has some claim also upon our grati-
tude; but it is matter of certainty that those na-
tions will receive an injury by the proposed
policy, and it may draw down upon that part
of our commerce very inconvenient and injuri-
ous restrictions. But, say the gentlemen, no
general principle <an be adopted, and, at the
same time, permit us to accept them. If this
be the case, why pursue measures which have
this fatal tendency, without any certainty of
j&dvantage from another quarter/

Great Britain would not enter into a com-
mercial treaty with us, because she saw we
had pot power to perform our engagements.
If this was the true reason for her declining to
form a treaty, thei'e is a high degree of proba-
bility, that now the objection is removed, she
m^ evince a disposition to be bound to us by
a link of that nature which we wish. Is it pru-
dent, then, at this time, to defeat the measure
we aim at by a paltiy regulation aimed against
her of fifteen pence per ton? I conceive it is
oot, and hope the House will reject it.

Mr. Madison. — 1 believe a few considerations
(hat lie in a small comf)ass, will be -sufficient
to guide B8 in our determination on the present
<x:caaion. Although it is an old maxiin, that
trade ia best left to regulate itself; yet circum-
.^tancea may and do occur to require legislative
interference. The principles which have actu-
ated us in laying duties on several articles of
impost are founded upon this necessity. Our
cotBiaerce with France and Great Britain may
be cousidered in the same point of view, the
one is depressed beyond what its nature deserves,
and the other enhanced beyond its due propor-
ttoo. TJie Justice of this remark is too flagrant
to be disputed. A considerable quantity of our
produce goes through Great Britain into France;
doe^ Dot this demonstrate that our commerce

in an improper channel^ and calls loudlv
to cive It a different direction? I think

flows

on us to give

the good policy of fostering the trade of France
cannot be doubted; we must make the other na-
tion feel our power to induce her to grant us
reciprocal advantages. Gentlemen will not con<
tena, that we ought to allow her everything,
and trust to her gratitude. They say it is a
slender obligation; for my part, I have no hopes
from that source; because I have all along ob-
served her seizing to herself eveiy advantage in
commerce that presented to her view by all the
ingenuity she could devise. Gentleipen admit,
that we are now i<i a difierent situation from
what we were when slie declined entering into
treaty with us, and they expect she will now
come forward with generous offers. But per-
mit me to ask gentlemen, if it is not the same
thing whether we want the power or the will to
compel them to do us commercial justice? Yet
do not #ie gentlemen's arguments tend to create
an opinion that we have not the power? They
caution us to be afraid of reprisals. If she really
believes us to be afraid on this head, will she
not act in the manner she has hitherto done
when we really did not possess the power?
When I hear remarks of this nature, the more
convinced I am of the necessity there is of mak-
ing a discrimination to convince her of our pow-
er, and make her see that her interest is con-
cerned in being on terms of friendship with us;
it will be tl^ most likely way to obtain from
her the advantages we contend for. I have no
doubt ia my own mind but that it will have
this effect. Can it be expected that she will
shut her ports against us, when she re-exports
the greater part of what she takes from us, for in-
stance tobacco? Will she refuse to receive this
article, when she does not consume the tenth
part of what she carries from the United States?
Will she shut her ports to the raw materials ne-
cessary for her manufactures? I think her de-
pendence, as a commercial and manufacturing
nation, is so absolutely upon us, that it fives a
moral certaintv that her restrictions will not,
for her own saice, be prejudicial to our trade.

pentlemen who fear any ill effect upon the
agricultural interests, apprehend it from a sup-

fosition that the discrimination will belhigh. Now
profess, it is not so much for a high duty as for'
the policy of the measure that I advocate it. I
shall be content with a small |>reference, and
surely no doubt can be entertained of its justice
or propriety.

Mr. Sherman was opposed to the discrimi-
nation. In his opinion, the great principle in
making treaties with foreign Powers, was to
obtain equal and reciprocal advantages to what
were granted^ and in all our measures toj;ain this
object the piinciple ought to be held m view.
If the business before the House was examined,
it would appear to be rather founded on prin-
ciples of resentment, because the nation of
Great Britain has neglected or declined form-
ing a commercial treaty with us. He did not
know that she discriminates between these

257

GALES ife SEATON'S HISTORY

258

H. OF R.]

Answer to the President.

[May 6, 178!^.

States and other Powers who are not in treaty
with her, and therefore did not call upon ire for
retaliation I if wc are treated in the same man-
ner as those nations we have no ri^ht to com-
plain. He was not opposed to particular regu-
lations to obtain the object which the friends
of the measure had in view; but he did not
fike this mode of doing it, because he feared it
would injure the interest of the United States.
Before the House adjourned, Mr. Madison
gave notice, that he intended to bring on the
subject of amendments to the constitution, on
the 4th Monday of this month.

Tuesday, May 5.

Mr. Benson, from the committee apjvointed
to consider of, and report what style or titles it
will be proper toannexto the office of President
and Vice President of the United States, if any
other than those given in the Constitution, and
to confer with a committee of the Senate ap*

Glinted for the same purpose, reported as fol-
weth:

*''That it is not proper to annex any style or
title to the respective styles or titks of office
expressed in the Constitution."

And the said report being twice read at the
Clerk's- table, was, on the question put there-
upon, agi*eefl to by tlus' House.

Ordered^ That the Clerk of this House do
acquaint the Senate therewith^

Mr.. Madison, from the committee appointed
to prepare an address on the part of this House
to the President of the United States, in answer
to his speech to both Houses of Congress, re-
potted as folioweth:

T%t Address of (he House of Rcpresentativea to- George
Washington^ Prcsidrnf of the United States,

3ik: ITve Representatives of the People of the
United States present their congratttlation» oiv the
event by which yoitr feHow-citizens have attested the
pre-eminence of your merit. You have tong hetdthe
first place in their esteem. You have often received
tokens of their aflPection. You now possess the only
proof tliat renuiined of their gratitude for your ser-
vices, of their reverence for your wisdom, and of
their confidence in your virtues. You enjoy the
highest^ because the truest honor, of being the First
Magistrate, by the unanimous choice of the freest
people on the face of the earth.

We well know tl^ anxieties with which you must
have obeyed a summons from the repose reserved for
your declining years, into public scenes, of which
you had taken your leave for' ever. But the obedi-
ence was doe to the occasion. It is already applaud-
ed by the universal joy whidi welcomes you- to your
station. And we cannot doubt that it will be reward-
ed with all the satisfaction with which an ardent love
for your fellow citizens must review successful efTorts
to promote their happiness.

This anticipation is not justified merely by the past
experience of your signal services. It is particularly
suggested by the pious impressions under which you
mean to commence your' administration, and the en-
lightened maxims by which you mean to conduct it.
We feel with you the strongest obligations to adore
the invisible hand which has led the American peo-

ple through so many diiRculties, to cherish a con-
scious responsibility for the destiny of republican
liberty f and to seekihe only siire means of preserv-
ing and recommending the preeiotis deposite in a sys-
tem of legislation founded on the principles of an ho-
nest po]icy,"and directed by the spirit of a diffusive
patriotism.

The question arising out of tbe fifth article of the
Constitution will receive all the attention demanded
by its importance^ and will, we trust, be decided,
under the influence of all the consideralioKs to whicb
you allude.

In forming tbe pecuniary proviaons for the Execu-
tive Department, we shall not lose sight of a wish re-
sulting from motives whicb give it a peculiar elain»
to our regard. Your resolution, in a moment critical
to the liberties of your country, to renounce all per-
sonal emolument, was among die many presagt:s oF
your patriotic -services, which have been amply ful-
filled; and your scrupulous adherence now to the law-
then imposed on yourself, cannot fail to demonstrate
the purity, whilst it increases the lustre of a charac-
ter which has so many titles- to admiratioi».

Such are the sentiments whieh we have thought fit
to address to you. They flow from our own hearts,,
and we verily believe that, among the millions we re-
present, there is not a virtuous citizen whose heart
will disown them.

All til at remains is, that we Join in your fervent sup-
plications for the blessings of heaven on our eotuitry ^
and that we add our own for tbe choicest of these
blessings on the n»ost beloved of our citizens.

Said address was committed to a Committee
of the whole; and the House immediately re-
solved itself into a committee^ Mr. Page in
the chair. The committee proposing nu
amendment thereto, mse and reported the ad-
dress* and the House agreed to it, and resolved
that tl)e Speaker^ attendett by the members oi'
this Huuse^ do present the said address to tl)e
President,

Ordered^ That Messrs^ Sinnicksonv CaLEev
and Smith, Cof South CarolinaO be a commit-
tee to wait on the Presitlent, to know when \t
will be convenient for him to receive tbe same.

Mr.CLYNERf from the committee appcMnted
for the purpose, repo<'*ted a bill f<)r laying a du-
ty on goodSf wares, and merchandise, imported
into the United States, which passed its first
reading.

Mr. Dlanp presented to the House the fol-
lowing application from^ the Legislature of Vti:-
ginia, to wit:

VinoiNii, to tint.-

Ik Genehal Assemitlt, Nov. 14, 1788.

Jtefohed, That an application be made in the name
and on behalf of the Legislature of this Common-
wealth to the Congress of the United States^ in the
words following, to wit:

•« The good People of this Common weahh, in Con-
vention assembled, having ratified the Constitutio»>
submitted to their consideration, this legislature has,.
ii> conform! tv to that act, and the resokitions of tlie
United States in Congress assembled, to them trans-
mittedy thought proper to make the arrangcmenti»
that were necessary for carrying it into effect. Hav-
ing thus shown themselves obedient to the voice oV
1 their coiuttituents^ all Am'jrica will tind that, so lar a&

259

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

260

May 5, 1789. ]

Application qf Virginia.

[H. ofR.

it depended on them, that plan of Government will
be carried into immediate operation.

*'But the sense of th^ People of Virginia would be
bat in part compUed wiUi, and but little regarded, if
we went no ftrther. In the very moment of adop-
tioD, and coeval with the ratification of the new plan
of Government, the general voice of the Convention
of this State pointed to objects no less interesting to
the People we represent { and equally entitled to our
attention. At the same time that, from motives of
affection to our nster States, the Convention yielded
their assent to the ratification, they gave the roost un-
equivocal proofs that they dreaded its operation un-
der the present form.

*< In acceding to the Government under this im-
pression, painful must have been the prospect, had
they not derived consolation from a full expectation
of its imperfections being speedily amended. In this
resource, therefore, they placed their confidence, a
confidence that will continue to support them, whilst
they hare reason to believe that they have not calcu-
lated upon it in vain.

*' In making known to you the objections of the
People of this Commonwealth to the new plan of
Government, we deem it unnecessary to enter into a
particular detail of its defects, which they consider as
involving all the great and unalienable rights of free-
men. For their sense on this subject, we beg leave
to refer you to tlie proceedings of their late Conven-
tion, and the sense of the House of Delegates, as ex-
pressed in their resolutions of the thirtieth day of Oc-
tober, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-eight.

•• Wc think proper, however, to declare, that, in
our opinion, as those objections were not founded in
speculative theory, but deduced from principles
which have been established by the melancholy ex-
ample of other nations in different ages, so they will
never be removed, until the cause itself shall cease
to exist. The sooner, therefore, the public appre-
bensons are quieted, and the Government is posses-
sed of the confidence of the People, the more salu-
tary will he its operations, and the longer its dura-
tion.

** The cause of amendments we consider as a com-
mon cause; and, since concessions have been made
from political motives, which, we conceive, may en-
danger the Republic, we trust that a commendable
zeal will be shown for obtaining those provisions,
which experience has taught us are necessary to
secure from danger the unalienable righU of"^ hu-
man nature.

*• The anxiety with which our countrymen press
for the accomplishment of this important end, . will
ill admit of delay. The slow forms of Congressional
discussion and recommendation, if, indeed, they
ahotdd ever ag^e to any change, would, we fear, be
less certain of success. Happily for their wishes, the
Constitution hath presented an alternative, by admit-
6ng the submission to a convention of the States.
To this, therefore, we resort as the source from
whence they are to derive relief from their present
apprehensions.

"We do, tlierefore, in behalf of our constituents,
in the most earnest and solemn manner, make this
application to Congress, that a convention be imme-
<&itely called, of deputies from the several States,
with iiill power to tsike into their consideration the
defects of this constitution that have been sugge.sted
by the State Conventions, and report such amend-
ments thereto as they shall find best suited to pro-

mote our common interests,' and secure to ourselves
and our latest posterity the]* great and unalienable
rights of mankind.

« JOHN JONES, Speaker Senate,
"THOMAS UKTWEW^, Speaker Ho. Del**

After the reading of this application,

Mr. Bland moved to refer it to the Commit-
tee of the whole on the state of the Union.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — According to the terms of
the Constitution, the business cannot be taken
up until a certain number of States have con-
curred in similar applications; certainly the
House is disposed to pay a proper attention to
the application of so respectable a State as Vir-
ginia, but if it is a business which we cannot in-
terfere with in a constitutional manner, we had
better let it remain on the files of the House un-
til the proper number of applications come for-
ward.

Mr. Bland thought there could be no impro-
priety in referring any subject to a committee,
but surely this deserved the serious and solemn
consideration of Congress. He hoped no centle-
man would oppose the compliment of referrin^g
it to a Committee of the whole; beside, tt
would be a guide to the deliberations of the
committee on (he subject of amendments, which
would shortly come before the House.

Mr. MADisoN^aid,he had no doubt but the
House was inclined to treat the present appli-
cation with respect, but he doubted the proprie-
ty of committing it, because it would seem to
imply that the House had a right to deliberate
upon the subject This he believed was not the
case until two-thirds of the State Legislatures
concurred in such application, and then it is out
of the power of Congress to decline complying,
the words of the Constitution being express and
positive relative to the agenc}^ Congress may
havein cuseof applications of this nature. '^The
Congress, wherever two-thirds of both Hou&es
shall deem it necessarj^, shall propose amend-
ments to this Constitution; or, on the applica-
tion of the Legislatures of two-thirds of the se-
veral States, shall call a ccmvention for propos-
ing amendments." From hence it must appear,
that Congress have no deliberative power on
this occasion. The most respectful and consti-
tutional mode of performing our duty will be, to
let it be entered on the minutes, and remain
upon the files of the House until similar appli-
cations come to hand from two-thirds of the
States.

Mr. BouDiNOT hoped the gentleman who de-
sired the commitment of the application would
not suppose him wanting in respect to the State
of Viigmia. He entertained the most profound
respect for her— but it was on a principle of re-
spect to order and propriety that he opposed
tne commitment; enough nad been said to
convince gentlemen that it was improper to
commit — tor what purpose can it be done? what
can the committee report? The application is to
call a new convention. Now, in this case,
there is nothing left for us to do, but to call one
when two-thirds of the State Legislatures ap-

261

GALES &> BEATON'S HISTORY

262

H. OF R.]

Duties on Tonnage.

[Mai 5, 1789.

ply for that purpo3e. He hoped the gentleman
would withdraw his motion for commifmeDt.

Mr. Bland.— rhe application now before the
committee contains a number of reasons why it
is necessary to call a convention. By the tifth
article of the Constitution, Congress are oblig-
ed to order this convention when two-thirds of
the Legislatures apply for it; but how can these
reasons be properjy weighed, unless it be done
in committee? Therefore, 1 hope the House
will agree to refer it.

Mr. Huntington thought it proper to let the
application remain on the table, it can be called
up with others when enough are presented to
make two-thirds oi' the whole States. There
would be an evident improprietjr in committing,
because it would argue a right in the House to
deliberate, and, consequently.- a power to pro-
crastinate the measure applied for.

Mr. Tucker thought it not right to disregard
the* application of any State, and inferred, that
the House had a right to consider every appli-
cation that was made; if two-thirds had not ap-
plied, the subject might be taken into consider-
ation, but if two4hirds*had applied, it precluded
deliberation on the part of the House. He
hoped the present application would be proper- .
ly noticed.

Mr. Gerry. — The gentleman from Virginia
(Mr. Madison) told us yesterday, that he meant
to move the consideration of amendments on the
fourth Monday of this month; he did not make
such motion then, and may be prevented by
accident, or some other cause, from carrying his
intention into execution when the time he men-
tioned shall arrive. I think the subject however
is introduced to the House, and, perhaps, it
may consist with order to let the firesent appli-
cation lie on the table until the business is taken
up generally.

Mr. Page thought it the best way to enter the
application at large upon the Journals, and do
the same by all that came in, until sufiicient
were made to obtain their object, and let the ori;
pnal be deposited in the archives of Congress.
He (leeme<l this the proper mode of disposing
of it, and what is in itself proper can never be
construed into disrespect.

Mr. Bland acquiesced in this disposal of the
application. Whereupon, it was ordered to be
entered at length on the Journals, and the origi-
nal to be placed on the files of Congress.

DUTHcs ON tonnagp:.

The House then i*esuined the consideration
of ihe Repi)rt of the Committee of the whole on
the state of the Union, in relation to the duty
vn tonnage.

Mr. Jackson (from Georgia) moved to lower
the tonnage duty from thirly cents, as it stood
ill the report of the committee on ships of na-
tions in alliance, and to insert twenty cents,
with a view of reducing the tonnage on the
vessels of Powers n^it in alliance. In laying a
higher duty on foreign tonnage than on our
own,'! presume, said he, the Legislature have

three things in contemplation : first, The en-
couragement of American shipping; Sndly,
Raising a Revenue; and, 3dly, The support of
light-houses and beacons for the purposes of
navigation. Now, for the first object, namely,
the encouragement of American shipping, I
judge twenty cents will be sufficient, the duty
on our own being only six cents; but if twenty
cents are laid in this case, I conclude that a higher
rate will be imposed upon the vessels of na-
tions not in alliance. As these form the pnncipal
part of the foreign navigation, the duty will be
adequate to the etid proposed. I take it, the
idea of revenue from this source is not mucli
relied upon by the House; and surely twenty
cents is enough to answer all the purposes of
erecting and supporting the necessary light-
houses. On a calculation of what will be paid
in Georgia, I find a sufficiency for these pur-
poses; and I make no doubt but enough will
be collected in every State from this duty.
The tonnage employed in Georgia is about
twenty thousand tons, fourteen thousand tons
are foreign; the duty on this quantity will
amount to £i66 13s. 4fl. Georgia currencjr. I
do not take in the six cents upon American
vessels, yet this sum appears to be as much as
can possibly be wanted for the purpose of im-
proving our navigation.

When we begm a new system, we ought to
act with moderation; the necessity and pro-
priety of every measure ought to appear evident
to our constituents, to prevent clamor and
complaint. I need not insist upon the-truth of
this observation by offering arguments in its
support. Gentlemen see we are scarcely warm
in our seats, before applications are made for
amendments to the Constitution; the people
are afraid tliat Congress will exercise their
power to oppress them. If we shackle the com-
merce of America by he.ivy imposition, we shall
rivet them in their distrust. The question be-
fore the committee appears to me to be, whe-
ther we shall draw in, by tender means, the
States that are now out of the Union, or deter
them from joining us, by holding out the iron
hand of tyranny and oppression. I am for the
former, as the most likely way of perpetuating
the federal Government. North Carolina will
l>e materially affected by a high tonnage; her
vessels in the lumber trade will be considerably
injured by the regulation; she will discover
this, and examine the advantages and disad-
vantages of entering into the Union. If the
disadvantages preponderate, it may be the cause
<»f her throwing herself into the arms of Britain;
her peculiar situation will enable her to injure
the trade of both Sou tli Carolina and Georgia.
The disadvantages of a high tonnage duty on fo-
reign vessels are not so sensibly felt by theNorth-
ern States; they have nearly vessels enough of
their own to carry on all their trade, consequently
the loss sustained by them will be but small;
but the Southern States employ mostly foreign
shipping, and' unless their produce is carried
by them to market it will perish. At this mo-

268

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

264

Mat 5, 1789.]

Duties on Tannage,

[H. OF R.

nent there are not only rice and lumber, bat
five thousand hogsheads of tobacco lying in
the warehouses for want of shipping. Gentle-
men may talk of raising a maritime force, and
increasing the number of our commercial ves-
sels; but what is to be done in the mean time
witii the products of agriculture? They must
be lakl up to rot in warehouses; they must wait
till a future day before they can be disposed of;
the poor planters are to suff'er this inconveni-
ence for a few years, to increase the building
of ships. Persecuted as these men are by
Bdtish tyrants, in the shape of creditors, we
are about to impel them to certain destruction.
Every artifice was used, every net was spread,
to involve them in this dilemma. Courted by
luxury, which exposed all its charms to impas-
sioa tneir souls, and prompted on by the nat-
tering terms of obtaining a gratification of their
wishes by a long credit, diese men have put
themselves into the power of commercial har-
pies. At length, roused from their lethargy,
they have made exertions to disentangle them-
selves. The sale of their produce has hitherto
enabled them to avoid the most dreadful evils;
bat take this out of their power, and there re-
mains nothing to save them from the loathsome
dungeon, and their families from perishing for
want of the common necessaries ot life. Then
may the people of the State of Georgia have
reason to repent the prompt and- decided part
they have taken in this second revolution.
Disappointed in that relief which they expected
froroa general and efficient government, they
will only have to seek obscunty and a wretch-
ed existence in some remote corner of the land,
despairing of ever obtaining hereafter the wont-
ed comforts and enjoyments of life.

I shall just mention to the House one obser-
vation more, to show that the produce of the
Southern States cannot bear a high tonnage
duty. The value of rice, tobacco, and indigo
has fallen so much in foreign markets, that
they are no longer worth the exportation.
The merchants complain that they lose by those
remittances; and they have now got into the
practice of sending off* specie; forty thousand
dollars have been sent in one vessel. This is a
dail^ practice, and we shall shortly have no
specie left to pay our debts. The difficulty
will be increased, as no money will remain to
pay for the duties imposed on the articles im-
ported. I hope the government will not insist
upon our walking before we are able to creep,
or compel us to make bricks without straw.
These are my sentiments on the present ques-
tion; if they have weight, the House will agree
with me in reducing the duty; but if the House
persist in continuing the high rates agreed to
tn committee, i shall content myself with hav-
ing done my duty by warning them of the
danger.

Mr. Ames. — I hope the reduction moved for
by the gentleman who has just sat down will
not be agreed to; for I trust the House is not
satisfied with the reasons offered in its support.

A great deal has been now said respecting the
jealousy entertained of the advantages given
by this preference to some States; a ereat deal
was also said l>efore the committee adopted the
measure. I do not think this doctrine of jea-
lousy is natural to us. I know it has been cul-
tivated by the British, and disseminated through
the United States; they had their particular
views in exciting such ideas; but I do not be-
lieve, that because we have various we have
opposite interests. Upon examination there
will be found but few of our interests that clash
with each other so much as to admit, a well
grounded jealousy. Nature has so arranged
our circumstances, that the people of the seve-
ral States pursue various employments which
support each other. If one end of the conti-
nent is employed in manufactures and com-
merce, the other is attentive to agriculture: so
far are they, therefore, from being rivals, tnat,
both in a natural and political sense, they mu-
tually are necessanr and beneficial to each
other's interests. I wish gentlemen, before
they insist upon this jealousy, would point out
the causes of its existence. So far from this
being the case, I believe the individual interest
of each part is compatible with the general in-
terest; and that the public opinion is the same,
is clearly demonstrated by the attachment pro-
fessed by every part to remain in union — it is
acknowledged, that on this principle our exist-
ence as a nation depends.

This being the case, I do not listen with any
great degree of concern to arguments founded
on that cause. So far from surveying the afflu-
ence or ease of my Southern brethren with the
jaundiced eye of jealousy, I contemplate their
prosperity with ineffable satisfaction. I look
with an equal eye upon the success of every
State through the whole extent of United Ame-
rica. I wish their interests to be equally con-
sulted; and, if I mayjud^eof the feelings of
the people, by those of their representatives on
this floor, 1 may venture to say, there was never
less reason to apprehend discord or envy than
at this time. I believe the fact is so, because
I feel it. I appeal with confidence to the gen -
tleoicn round me, whether they have not found
the disposition of those who were suspected
most to favor navigation, ready to concede
what was asked for the encouragement of every
other interest? Whether a liKe conciliatory
conduct has not been observed by the advo-
cates of manufactures? I ask gentlemen, whe-
ther the language they have neard from the
several parts of this House has not been much
more congenial to their sentiments than they
expected, and the measures pursued morecoin-
ciaent to their feelings than what they looked
for? I believe, at the moment I am making
this observation^ the breasts of gentlemen beat
in concert with it; I am sure my feelings accord
most cordiallv in the sentiment*

1 beli^eve the encouragement of our naviga-
tion is looked upon to be indispensably neces-
sary; its importance has never been denied.

265

GALES & SEATON'S ftlSTORY

266

H. OF R.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[May 5, 1789.

Now, i ask if gentlemen are inclined to sup-
port and extend our navigation, whether they
are not willing to proportion the mean to the
end, and adopt measures tending to increase
the quantity of American shippmg? It has
been often justly remarked, that the Constitu-
tion, under which we deliberate, originated in
commercial necessity. The mercantile part
of our fellow citizens, who arc the firm friends
to an equal and energetic government, hope
the improvement of our navigation may^obtain
the attention of Congress; it is but justice that
it be early attended to, and it will give general
satisfaction to find it considered as an impor-
tant object by the General Government. The
most liberal of the friends of American com-
merce only wish for such regulations as may
put our navigation on a footing with foreigners.
If other nations have restricted our navigation
by regulations or charges, we must restiict
tliem by a tonnage, or some other duty, so as
to restore an equality | but this will not be
found to be the case in the present instance.
The moderate and inconsiderable duty of thirty
cents on foreigners in treaty, and fifty cents on
others nut in treaty, will not enable our vessels
to go abroad with as much advantage as foreign-
ers can come here; so that the proposed en-
couragement may perhaps fall short of procur-
ing us a maritime strength equal to our national
security.

The gentleman from Georgia (Mr. Jackson)
says, that five thousand hogsheads of tobacco
are now rotting in the wareliouses for want of
ships to carry them to market. If this is the
case, it proves we have depended long enough
upon foreigners to supply us with the means of
transportation; let us now make some provi-
sion that will prevent the like taking place
again. If proper encouragement is now given,
we may perhaps in a short time have enough
of shipping to supply all the States. If the
productions of another year must lie in the
planters' hands, they will feel a greater loss
and inconvenience than the payment of half a
dollar additional freight per ton, if it was cer-
tain that they would be subjected to such a
burthen :— judge from this circumstance, whe-
ther there is a competition of interests in the
United States. Does not the contrary appear to
be the fact? Gentlemen will please to consider
how unfavorable it is to commerce, to have
the success of their business depend upon the
caprice or mercy of any foreign nation. If
your produce is to lie till they come to carry it
away, you cannot be said to have the command
of your property, or possess those advantages
which the bounty of nature has given you.
How much better is it to go with vessels of our
own in search of a market, than to wait for
others to take our produce away until it peiishes
on our hands? Let me ask gentlemen, if they
think the produce of Massachusetts would be
sold if we were unable to seek a market for
ourselves? Would foreigners come to New
England in search of our whale oil and fish?

No; foreigners are hostile to our fisheries; so
far from encouraging us, by buying what we
have for sale, they wish and labor to destroy
our trade; their attempts are defeated by our
ability to go abroad and seek a market for our*
selves. Ihis demonstrates clearly, that, in
order to extend the sale of our productions, we
must have vessels of our own to find out a
market, and be guided by actual experience to
that which is best.

The observations of gentlemen tending to
show thatone end of the continent will suffer
more by the regulation contemplated by the
House than the other, are, I conceive, not well
founded. The price of freight will equalize it-
self. If (he people of Carolina or Georgia pay a
high freight in consequence of the tonnage du-
ty, the State of Massachusetts must pay the
same, or her vessels will go to the southward in
search of freight, so that the Eastern States
have no peculiar interest in the measure. It
has been suggested, that because Massachu-
setts has foreign vessels in her employ, she can-
not transport produce for others — Massachu-
setts, by reason of that influence which Britain
has, is obliged to receive some of her supplies
in foreign bottoms, but this is only a proof that
the evil requires a remedy. I might here easily
draw a picture of the distress to which the
eastern countrv is subjected for want of a pro-
tecting hand; nor shipwrights are glad to work
for two shillings and six pence a dav, or less,
and less will not maintain them and tneir fami-
lies. Their lumber is of no value, it lies rot-
ting in the forests, for want of encouragement
to frame it into ships; the other artisans are
clamorous for employment, and without a spee-
dy relief they will have to desert the country.
I believe if this relief is extended to them, it
will give a spring to their industry, and a little
time will render them serviceable to their fellow
citizens in the South. They will find markets
for their tobacco which is now rotting, and their
valuable productions will be transported to all

farts of the globe. From these circumstances,
am led to beg gentlemen to consider, that the
improvement and extension of our navigation is
one of the most important objects that can come
before the Legislature; that there are abundant
proofs that a regulation in favor of American
shipping is absolutely necessary to restore them
to an equality with foreigners; and if they are
convinced with me of its importance and neces-
sity, they will not think the sums agreed to in
committee too high for the purpose of protect-
ing the navigation of the United States.

Mr. Jackson.— I said, Mr, Speaker, that
there was a considerable quantity of tobacco
lying in our warehouses, for want of vessels to
carry it off. The gentleman from Massachu-
setts (Mr. Ames) says, that if tl)is is the case,
it is time to take the staff into our own hands,
and encourage the growth of American vessels.
Yes, sir, but let us see the American ships, and
then I will consent not only to fifty cents per
ton, but to a total prohibition of foreigners. But

267

«>^ OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS.

268

Mat 5, 1789.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[H, ofR.

I say again, do not compel us to lAake bricks said, Massachusetts has not vessels enough for

without straw, nor oblige us to carry offour pro
duce without shippine; if Massachusetts has
not shipping enough lor her own use, she can
furnish none for the use of others.

Mr. Am£S was oWiged to the gentleman for
^is offer to exclude foreigners, but he did not
wi$h to go so far. He had hopes thnt a shorter
period than gentlemen seemed to contem-
plate, would TO sufficient to improve the navi-
^tion of the United States, and expectetl eve-
r? State as well as Massachusetts would be
aMe to transport a great part of its own produc-
tions.

Mr. Burke.— Something has been sakl rela-
tive to a jealousy subsisting in the Southern
States respecting the navigation interest; I shall,
therefore, make an observation or two on that
sul^ect. So far as my own knowledge of that
country jgoes, I believe the citizens look with
indignation at the power which foreigners have
over their commerce. So far from being jea-
lous of the eastern States, they look forward to
some future day when their navigation will be
secured to that part of the Union. They know
that it possesses superior maritime advantages,
and expect they will hereafter afford security to
them. They know, that from the spirit and in-
dustry of the people of New Enzland, they may
derive commercial and agricultural 'benefits.
This is also my own judgment on the point. I
know they cannot now supply us with vessels
to transport our produce, but I hope the time
will shortly <;ome when they will have the abi-
lity; in the mean time, when I consider how
roach the Southern staples are fallen in price,
and the great debts due in that country, l must
sar, that I fear a heavy tonnage will be attend-
ed with very danjgerous consequences. There
are very few foreigners but British come among
us, arid a high duty laid upon their ships will
iail severely upon the planters. The Southern
people are willing to render any assistance to
increase the maritime importance of the Eastern
States, as soon as they are able; if, therefore, a
distant period is fixed for the commencement
of the high duties, I shaK be in favor of them;
hut if they are to take place immediately, I fear
they will do a great deal of injury in the pre-
»>ent decanged and calamitous situation of our
coantry.

Mr. GooDHrE was glad to hear from the se-
veral parts of the House, that there was a dis-
fKisition to give a preference to American ship-
pins. This principle being fixed, it only remain-
ed for the House to ascertain the propel* degree
of encouragement to be givan; the rate agreed
to in the committee was not more than good
policy required. The gentleman from Georgia
fears that the people ot his State will suffer for
want of vessels, or pay a higher freight than
their neighbors$ but a high duty is not contend-
ed fur in the first instance, it is only such a
degree of encouragement as will enable us to
enter into a competition with foreigners in our
4wro carrying trade. The same gentleman has

her own commerce, and, therefore, cannot fur-
nish any for others: although Massachusetts em-
ph^ys 7 or SOOO tons of foreign shipping; yet it
IS supposed she supplies the other States with
30,000 tons. The circumstance of 5,000 hogs-
heads of tobacco lying to rot tor want of ves-
sels, when some thousand tons of ours are idle
for want of employment, does not prove the
want of shipping, so much as that the price of
the article is too high for a foreign markeL If
the produce is held so high as not to bear the
expense of transportation, the merchants who
import will be obliged to send off" money in
payment. In order to remedy these inconvenien-
ces in future, it will be necessary to hold out suf-
ficient encouragement for the construction of
vessels. Perhaps it may be good policy to al-
low a moderate tonnage duty at this time, to be
increased hereafter.

Mr. Madison. — I believe every gentleman
who hears the observations from the different
quarters of this House, discovers great reason
for every friend of the United States to congra-
tulate himself upon the evident disposition
which has been displayed to conduct our busi-
ness with harmony and concert.

We have evinced a disposition different from
what was expected to arise from the different
interests of the several parts of the Union. I
am persuaded, that less xontrariety of sentiment
has taken place than was supposed by gentle-
men, who did not choose to magnify the causes
of variance; every thing we have hitherto done,
tends to make this evident. The importance
of the Union is justly estimated by all its parts;
this betn§ founded upon a perfect accordance of
interest, it may become perpetual. I know ibnt
the point before us, has often been selected as a
proof thftt there was an incompatibility of inte-
rest in the United States. On this opiinion I
beg leave to remark, that the difference in point
of capacity in the several States to build snips,
and furnish seamen, is much less than has ge-
nerally been supposed. From the extremity of
the Northern States until we reach South Caro-
lina, materials of all sorts for ship-building can
be obtained in abundance from the bounty of
nature; even Georgia abounds with materials of
superior Quality; although their population dis-
qualifies them for ship-building at present, yet
tneir ad vantages are such as to enable them in
a short time to rival the most prosperous State.
In the next place, I may remark, that so far as
the encouragement of our own shipping will be
given at the expense of the people of Sic Unit-
ed States, it will diffuse ana equalize its opera-
tions in every part. The ^ips belonging to one
place will, like the people, seek employment in
another where better wages are obtained, and
this, in its operations, will level any inequalities
supposed to arise from legislative interference.
With respect to the particular article before
the House, I do not think it requires the discus-
sion that has been gone into. If we consider
the small proportion of shipping belonging to

269

GALES & SEATON'S HISTORY

270

H. OF R.]

Duties on Tonnage,

[Mat 5, 1789.

nations in commercial alliance with the United
States, a duty of thirty cents per ton will be
found to affect, in a very small degree, the in-
terest of any particular State; if it increases a
supply from that quarter, the burth«n will
Hshten in proportion. With respect to the
clause which follows, I have in view to make a

Sroposition to obviate the complaints of the
outhern States. 1 mean that the duty shall be
light until the 1st of January, 1791,when it shall
be increased; this will give a considerable op-
portunity for those States that are able, to mate
gradual preparations to fill up the vacancy that
will be left by the withdrawing of foreigners.
The more I have been able to collect and com-
pare facts, with respect to American and fo-
reign shipping, the more I am persuaded that it
is in our power, in a very short time, to supply
all the tonnage necessary for our own com-
merce. It was said, that the foreign tonnage
consisted of two-thirds of what we employed;
the facts before me warrant a result more favor-
able to the navigation of America. It appears
from the returns of Massachusetts, (hat she em-
ploys in her commerce 76,857 tons of Ameri-
can, and but 8,794 foreign; New York, 55,000
American, and 30,000 foreign; Pennsylvania,
44,089 tons of her own vessels, and 28,012 be-
longing to various other nations; Maryland
gives employment to 35,671 tons, the property
of citizens of the United States, and S6,061 be-
longing to foreigners; Vir«jinia employs rather
more foreign vessels, namcfy, 29,567 tons, and
less American, viz. 26,705; South Carolina has
engaged in her trade 31,904 American, and
25,073 foreign; and Georgia employs but 6,500
American, and 13,500 foreign; so that, besides
this latter, no State employs so groat a propor-
tion as two-thirds of foreigners. New Hamp-
shire, Connecticut, New Jersey, and Delaware,
I have not been able to ascertain, but I think
there is good reason to believe^ that the propor-
tion in those States is considerably in favor of
American vessels. The tonnage employed in
the seven States I have enumerated, amounts
to 437,641 tons, of which 160,907 are all that is
owned by foreigners. If I can draw any con-
clusion from this statement of facts, it is that
we have a greater proportion of shipping than
has been supposed. This circumstance, annex-
ed to our capacity of increasing the quantity of
our tonnage, gives us a favorable presage of our
future independence.

It has been said, that the Eastern States have
not vessels to transport our prmluce. I believe,
from a variety of circumstances, that the ves-
sels of Massachusetts have not been so readily
employed in the Southern commerce as could
be wished. This will, perhaps, continue to be
the case, except our own citizens carry on our
trade. At present, it is almost exclusively in
the hands of Uritish merchants, and as lung as
their vessels are upon an equality with ours,
they will naturally be inclined to give a prefe-
rence to their own; but I hope to see this mat-
ter soon rectified, and the citizens of one State

enabled to assist those of another, and receive
mutual benefits and advantages. To accom-
plish this, without doing an injury to any part
of the Union, I would propose to reduce the
dutv only to 25 cents, ano increase it at the end
of the next year to 60 cents.

Mr, Smith (of South Carolina.)— I appre-
hend, Mr. Speaker, that on the question of^ in-
terest with respect to the navigation law^ tlic?
interests of the Northern and Southern States,
are more at variance than gentlemen seem ap-
prised of. In my opinion, it would be the in-
terest of the Southern States to give a bounty
upon tonnage. In the opinion of the gentlemen
from the northward, it is proper to lay a heavy
duty. To be sure, I must acknowledge the li-
berality of gentlemen in not going quite so far
as their interest would seem to lead them, but
I fear they go farther than will serve the in-
terest of ihe Southern States. The State of
South Carolina is in a very deplorable condition
fnnn the ravages of the late war; the inhabitants
were mostly plundered of the convenicncics
and necessaries of life; they had to incur consi-
derable debts in consequence; but very heavy
debts existed before the war, subject to an in-
terest of 8 per cent. The State is also consi-
derably in debt, the domestic debt alone amounts
to a mdlion sterling, and there will be no way
to pay this off but by recourse to direct taxa-
tion. The State owes to foreigners about one
hundred thousand pounds sterling, which must
be paid in specie, and also raised by direct tax-
ation. Under these circumstances, the people
must endeavor to obtain the best price for their
produce^ any measure, therefore, that tends to
diminish that price will add to their embarrass-
ment.

Gentlemen tell us of the quantity of Ameri-
can ships we may expect, of the low price of
labor, and the superabundance of materials to
construct them; that they can probably be built
at this time for half of what the British build
theirs; yet they do not come much atnong us*
Our foreign transportation is made piincipally
in British vessels; indeed, we are at the mercy
of foreigners in this particular, and unless they
come to us we must oe ruined; it would be un-
wise, therefore, to adopt a measure that woultl
amount to a prohibition. The American ton-
nage employed in South Carolina has been
stated at 31,904 tons, but it is to be considereil
that these are principally coasting vessels, cai-
rying little or none of our produce, and that
they enter eight or ten times in a year. This
reduces the apparent quantity to a very incon-
siderable actual amount,and leaves us more de-
pendent upon foreigners than we appeared on
the first view to be. When these circumstan-
ces are duly weighed, I hope gentlemen will tii\t
attribute it to a want of liberality in the Southern
States, because they are not will ins; to go so far
with them as to destroy the agriculture of their
country.

I have some doubts in opposing my judgmcni
to gentlemen who have better information; but.

271

OF DEBATES IN CONGRESS,

272

xMat 5, 1789.]

Duties on Tonnage.

[H. OF R.

so far as I am able to form an opinion. I think
the demand for the rice of South Carolina will
depend upon the price, and that the freight
which is paid for taking it to market will fall
upon the shipper. Rice is carried to those
countries where it will come cheaper than the
^in used for bread. Graat Britain takes con-
siderable quantities of rice, but it is not for her
own consumption; she seeks out markets of
this kind, and disposes of it to a profit, to pay
her circuitous freight. She will not be able to
continue this trafiic, if she has to pay us half a
dollar duty; for whatever is added to the freight
niQst be taken off the commodity. The planter
will have to lower his price, or the exportation
mast be cut off. If this be the case, it is evi-
dent that a duty on navigation is against the
interest of South Carolina and all the agricul-
taral States. I think we have already shown
sufficient attention to the manufacturing States,
by the impost duties which are agreed to. Gen-
tlemen will please to remember, that the reve-
nue from most of the articles that are taxed
will be drawn from the Southern States. We
roust give an increased price for our necessary
supplies, or refrain from their consumption; or
we must part with our productions at a less
rate. This will be an evil we are unable to
sustain in our present distressed condition.
You will consider again, if the consumption of
the imports is lessened, there will be less rea-
son for British ships to come to us. If the
quantity of tonnage is diminished, I need not
repeat to the House the consequences. The
British merchants will hardly send their ships
in ballast to South Carolina for the sake of car-
ryiag our produce; the principal reason why
we have the advantage of their trade is, because
we take their manufactures and give our pro-
duce in exchange. It is said we ought to en-
courage our allies to come arnon^ us and parti-
cipate in our trade. I do not thmk the differ-
ence proposed between foreign nations can ac-
complish this object. Nothing less than a duty
equal to a prohibition on British ships, can do
it. Our connexions are kept up with them by
the vast debts due to her merchants and fac-
tors; it is their policy to continue us in these
commercial fetters. Year after year, they im-
port fresh cargoes, and give us credit for the
articles we want, taking from time to time our
produce in payment. Nothing, therefore, will
be a complete remedy, unless you can prevent
the consumption of British goods. I believe
the people of South Carolina are willing to
make sacrifices to encourage the manufacturing
and maritime interests ot their sister States;
but I hope gentlemen will not press the matter
too far, and while they are securing advantages
to themselves, bear too hard upon others. I
wish, therefore, for their consent to reduce the
tonnage on the vessels of our allies to 20 cents,
and on British bottoms to 30 cents. But if
gentlemen persist in keeping up the rate laid in
the committee, it will be injurious to the trade
(if the Southern States generally, and oppres-

sive to the planters in particular, who have not
yet recovered from the losses and misfortunes
entailed upon them by having their country the
seat of war, ^ The distress ot the inhabitants of
South Carolina has been extreme; it has en-
gaged them to pass a law of a guestionable, not
to say false policy. But the time is now come
to prevent a repetition of the measure; yet
their debts must be paid: and it is well known
that they have not a fartning of specie circulat-
ing among them, by reason of a depreciated
paper medium, from 10 to 15 per cent, below
par. How, then, can they ever look for ease or
content, but by getting a good price as a reward
for their industry? If the Government pre-
vent this by a heavy tonnage duty, they must
be answerable for the consequences.

Mr. Goodhue had no intention to injure the
interest of the Southern States. He was sorry
for their distresses, and wished every encour-
agement and protection should be given them.
With a view, therefore, of obviating the incon-
venience suspected by gentlemen, he would se-
cond the motion of tne gentleman from Virgi-
nia, (Mr. Madison,) if the gentleman would
bring it forward, relative to affixing a distant
day for the high duties to commence their ope-
ration.

Mr. BouDiNOT. — I look upon this subject as
of considerable importance to the prosperity
and welfare of the United States; of considera-
ble importance as it respects the revenue, and
of importance as it affects the interests of the
individual States. Whenever I speak of trade,
I must own that I feel as if I were out of my
element. I can only form my opinion, and de-
termine from such facts as are before me, and
the information I get from gentlemen on the
floor. I take it, the object in view is to raise a
revenue for the support of your Government,
and that it must be obtained from one quarter
or another; it must either come from an impost
on goods, a duty on tonnage, or from direct
taxes laid upon tne citizens of the Union. We
all seem to agree, that where it can be done
with propriety, it is most eligible to take it from
trade. Under these impressions, we agreed to
an impost upon goods, wares, and merchandise.
I believe there is no gentleman but would give
up every restraint upon commerccj if it were
possible to do so without encumbering it w

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Full text of "The debates and proceedings in the Congress of the United States : with an appendix containing important state papers and public documents, and all the laws of a public nature; with a copious index; compiled from authentic materials"

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